Why Pakistan might be about to side with Saudi Arabia against Iran

[Mr.Green]

No we can't. Iran has shown its true colors. Iran is hosting entire RAW network and is fully behind BLA, BRA and other scumbags. I was also of the view that we should remain neutral but not anymore.

Agreed fully.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Have you ever wondered why this brother Muslim neighbour of yours Iran has let in our arch enemy india for chabhar port on other dodgy deals to come out.

The Gulf countries are far closer to India than Iran is.

No country would risk harming their relations with India, a country with nearly a fifth of the world's population, to appease Pakistan on the basis of "Muslim Brotherhood".

 

[KaiserX]

Pakistan-Saudi Arabia share key interest in the region. Thought things are not aligned 100% esp with regards to Kashmir/Yemen, they still align on 75% easily.

Pakistans interest align far more with KSA's than with Irans. Simply put KSA has been a reliable alley that has invested heavily into pakistans economy/military. KSA also invested in paks nuclear program during a critical period. Pakistani people will grateful to KSA for this role in helping pakistan.

Strategically from Arab-Israeli wars/Indo-Pak Wars/Soviet-Afghan invasion. KSA was instrumental in pakistani strategic calculus.

KSA today has become the strategic axis of the US in the middle east with the other key player being Israel. Together Israel-KSA serve US/Their interest in the wider region. KSA has took a more active role in negotiations between pakistan-india due to its key relationship with both countries. In many ways KSA has been far more influential here, compared to Pakistan which has never been successful in getting Iran-KSA to agree to anything.

 

[StormBreaker]

Saudi Arabia's top cleric has said Iran's leaders are "not Muslims", a day after Iran's supreme leader denounced the management of the Hajj pilgrimage.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37287434
Under this formula, Saudi religious scholars’ anti-Shia rhetoric documented in this report sometimes rises to the level of hate speech or incitement to hatred or discrimination. Other statements by Saudi religious scholars documented in this report do not rise to the level of hate speech or incitement to hatred or discrimination but nevertheless should be publicly repudiated and counteracted by Saudi authorities. Given the influence and reach of these scholars, these public anti-Shia statements are instrumental in Saudi Arabia’s enforcement of a system of discrimination against Shia citizens. This discrimination occurs in various areas, including refusal to permit Saudi Shia to build houses of worship outside limited Shia-majority areas, the imposition of a justice system that often displays anti-Shia bias, and an education curriculum that stigmatizes Shia religious beliefs and practices.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/09/26/they-are-not-our-brothers/hate-speech-saudi-officials#
not exactly one-sided is it? (not that Iranian regime is perfect they also have many issues)

One thing Muslims around the globe should do is first and foremost
Stop calling Muslims Kaffir, this breeds a lot of issues

Don’t drag shia here.

If Saudis even point out to shia, Then there’s always a reason to that !

Firstly, This discussion has got nothing to do with sects as Iran uses Sectarianism for its political purposes.

Secondly, In urdu, We have a slang “Ungli karna”, Even if Saudis point out at shias, Most of the time it’s the response. Shia clerics are well known for “Ungli Karna” by using hateful language against Sunni beliefs and general personalities of Islam. Sunnis OTOH don’t curse or disobey any personality so if anyone is to be blamed, It’s them who curse and disrespect valued sahabas of Our Prophet SA

 

[Samurai_assassin]

Need to hit these Iranian scumbags hard. To hell with this fabricated brotherhood.
The Iranian lunatic regime threatened Pakistan when their Revolutionery guards were killed. However when Pakistani soliders are targeted in back to back attacks we are silent?
Are Pakistanis only there to bury their martyrs?

 

[KaiserX]

Not gonna happen..

What wahabis like to refer to as some Iranian shia conspiracy that protects Irans image in pakistan. Is actual cold hard geopolitical calculations made by experts...

Pakistan is in an existential border conflict with a neighbours 6-7 times its size. The last thing on earth pakistan needs is another major, powerful enemy on the other flank

especially when pakistan has absolutely nothing to gain (besides pleasing some wahabi animals) from such a move, and everything to lose.

Where have you been? Pakistan has been engaged on all its borders with the exception of China since its creation.

Pakistan had NATO/ANA on its western flank and still managed. Taliban without a airforce/missile force would never be able to mount a strategic challenge to pakistan territory.

Even with Iran, most Pakistan may do would be to use drones/airstrikes to take out baloch terrorist in sistan which Iranian authorities did not know of. There was an understanding during the shah's time when the militaries of both nations could launch raids into eachothers balochistan to crush BLA/BLF terrorist.

Such a agreement may been needed but that is for Iran to decide and both sides would have to compromise. Iran may have to allocate more soldiers to tackle these groups which it itself does not want as it takes resources away from the middle eastern assets. Iran wants to secure its middle eastern borders first same as Pakistan wants to secure its border with india. Thus Iran has chosen to benefit from this situation by turning a blind eye to the baloch terrorist while extracting concessions that such groups will not target iranian security forces. Essentially they can keep pakistan bogged down while continuing to keep focus on the middle east.

The current regime has had a history of exploiting ethnic and religious tensions in neighboring countries. Key example is Irans active support to kurdish terrorist in iraq/turkey/syria. against turkey. Its support of armenia against the azeris. Its support of farsiwan in afghanistan against pushtuns and so on. It appears Iran to create a hedge against pakistan is going a similar route in supporting baloch ethnic terrorist.

Pakistani patience is running thin and wont last long. It will never target innocent iranian people as those our own family and people but we will target those terrorist that are killing innocent pakistani and iranians.

 

[zartosht]

Where have you been? Pakistan has been engaged on all its borders with the exception of China since its creation.

Pakistan had NATO/ANA on its western flank and still managed. Taliban without a airforce/missile force would never be able to mount a strategic challenge to pakistan territory.

Even with Iran, most Pakistan may do would be to use drones/airstrikes to take out baloch terrorist in sistan which Iranian authorities did not know of. There was an understanding during the shah's time when the militaries of both nations could launch raids into eachothers balochistan to crush BLA/BLF terrorist.

Such a agreement may been needed but that is for Iran to decide and both sides would have to compromise. Iran may have to allocate more soldiers to tackle these groups which it itself does not want as it takes resources away from the middle eastern assets. Iran wants to secure its middle eastern borders first same as Pakistan wants to secure its border with india. Thus Iran has chosen to benefit from this situation by turning a blind eye to the baloch terrorist while extracting concessions that such groups will not target iranian security forces. Essentially they can keep pakistan bogged down while continuing to keep focus on the middle east.

The current regime has had a history of exploiting ethnic and religious tensions in neighboring countries. Key example is Irans active support to kurdish terrorist in iraq/turkey/syria. against turkey. Its support of armenia against the azeris. Its support of farsiwan in afghanistan against pushtuns and so on. It appears Iran to create a hedge against pakistan is going a similar route in supporting baloch ethnic terrorist.

Pakistani patience is running thin and wont last long. It will never target innocent iranian people as those our own family and people but we will target those terrorist that are killing innocent pakistani and iranians.

Like I said, emotional drivel has no place in geopolitics. I have yet to see anything from the pakistani government that would indicate an anti-Iranian stance..

And also, China did have territorial claims on pakistan. They literally printed maps in the 60s that included parts of pakistani territory. Pakistan was forced to hand over strategic territory, and recieve junk in return to save face, and end the chinese claims on pakistan..

something many pakistanis seem to have forgotten

 

[KaiserX]

Like I said, emotional drivel has no place in geopolitics. I have yet to see anything from the pakistani government that would indicate an anti-Iranian stance..

And also, China did have territorial claims on pakistan. They literally printed maps in the 60s that included parts of pakistani territory. Pakistan was forced to hand over strategic territory, and recieve junk in return to save face, and end the chinese claims on pakistan..

something many pakistanis seem to have forgotten

There is proof all over the internet for you to see. Majority of BLF/BLA leadership and their families have relocated to Iran. This video implicates them outright with their involvement indoctrinating baloch children against Pakistan.

Iran had a similar strategy in Afghanistan by indoctrinating the northern alliance to have a hatred of pakistan/punjabis. Now Northern alliance is destroyed it is doing the same in Balochistan.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Pak will do what she has to do....

 

[Maula Jatt]

Like I said, emotional drivel has no place in geopolitics. I have yet to see anything from the pakistani government that would indicate an anti-Iranian stance..

And also, China did have territorial claims on pakistan. They literally printed maps in the 60s that included parts of pakistani territory. Pakistan was forced to hand over strategic territory, and recieve junk in return to save face, and end the chinese claims on pakistan..

something many pakistanis seem to have forgotten

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Karakoram_Tract
area they gave was inhospitable for humans to live in and no troops or control was exerted on this region by either china, Pak or Britain ever- only reason it was considered part of pak territory was because brits mistakenly added it - not the hill one should die on
, in return China got its most trusted partner in SA and Pak got lots of benefits too

PAK WASNT FORCED TOO- Pak itself went to china to settle the border so both can work together against India whose relationship with started to deteriorate
brilliant move by the administration of the time

And it isn't exactly that Iran is not surrounded by hostile elements- if SA started providing Taliban with money- that's an extremist group sitting on your border, turkey, azeris are also not the most friendly and will pick Pak over Iran any day of the week (in turning hostile and )using their land for proxies, Saudi lack a good intelligence agency well ISI can go and back them in Iraq so your immediate friendly neighbor can experience more instability
So like I said its not in anyone's interest to be hostile - its equally bad for both parties involved
its best advised to stop playing games, cause the other can also play games - its not a zero sum game

 

[araz]

I don’t care about any sectarian and religious angle. Pakistan’s enemy is someone we need to crush. Iran has been hurting us for years. We need to bring down hell on these guys. There is no difference between Iran and Talibans . They are both our enemy:

Bhai saheb.
With all due respects it is easy to sit in Canada in the cool comfort of your room and pontificate about raining hell on Iran. Your enemies want you to do just that so they can laugh till they drop and point how stupid the Pakistanis are.
You have anywhere between 15-20% shia population. Most of them would be young and full of energy and without jobs. The frustration of this situation can lead people to do stupid things.
Secondly Iran is not some shitty country like Guetemala or Sierra Leone( no disrespect to either of them- just to emphasise size and military power). It may currently be down but uses its ideological clout and money gained from selling crude oil to very good effect.
Its population is still very actively Pro Iran while not necessarily being Pro Ayatullah. However the Shia belief is whatever the Ayatullah decrees is sacrosanct.
It also has a good base for armaments (although mostly outdated) production. It has a long history of supporting factions in other countries for furthering its own goals. We have seen this in Syria, Lebanon and previously the Northern alliance of Afghanistan.
Its secret services used to be the best in the region. Now down they are possibly still retaining their structure.
Pakistan on the other hand is-economically nearing bankruptcy, fractionated into Sects and regions and devoid of strong sense of belonging in its populace. On your Eastern front is the second largest power in SE Asia after China with whom you have had major skirmishes not to mention 3 major wars. To your West are the Afghans who on account of lack of central control,infrastructure, will and money are unable to control its peripheries very well. This results in skirmishes with Pakistan. They want to reopen the old routes which were their main earnings via-smuggling of all sorts. This includes left over arms and drugs amongst other things. When there is money to-be made the Pakistanis will not be far behind and the Pushtuns have families and tribes across the border. Currently you are barely controlling the onslaught by fencing most of the border and hopefully we would have fenced the last 20 odd KMS to gain some sort of control over them. However you also have to supply food to them so they dont overrun the border or create mass migration which would put pressure on Pakistan which it will not be-able to bear.
On the other hand, you have fenced all but 560Kms of the 1300km border between Iran and Pak at great personal cost-in money qnd lives
The hornets nest on its own might not be a bad thing to have but stirring a hornets nest will never be a good idea. This is exactly what you will do if you take aggressive posturing/action against Iran.
The continuation of this policy requires you to keep talking to Iran while continuing to fence the vast gaping hole in the fencing. Once you have completed the fencing the source for all-the mischief will be reduced drastically and you can control-the rest. It would be extremely nonsensical to open up another front in the presence of other options which would be more logical financially less honorous and can be achievable.
I dont know what you want to do-by invading Iran? You would need to create a narrative which would hold in the eyes of international community. Even if you were successful what are your objectives and how will you achieve them. It just needs the Irani government to say "we have no control over the Irani Baluchistan but we support your stance in principle" for all your aggression and the consequent loss of lives to look useless. Add to that the unrest in house the Rising Baluchi-Insurgency the Afghans trying to profit from it and in consequence an unstable Western border and then you-have just (proverbially) shat on the achievements of the last 20 years.
A

 

[TheSolution]

We have more issues with Indian spies and Indian trolls on pdf then we do with Iran. Currently hordes of Baluchis are coming from India and Afghanistan, fully trained and armed, Iran has nothing to do with it.

@Goritoes

Is he one of them? (The people you mentioned yesterday)

 

[SaadH]

& yet post-revolution Iran supported Sunni Palestinians and their cause against Israel, has had tense relations with the Shia majority Azerbaijan, extended support to Zaidi Shias in Yemen even though Zaidi ideology stands against the Shia ideology followed by Iran.

I am not saying your answer is incorrect but this well runs much deeper than that, on all sides.

Enemy of my enemy is my friend

 

[SIPRA]

Pakistan needs to tread very carefully. Dangerous times are ahead. World is experiencing geopolitical instability.

 

[kingQamaR]

Judging by our split opinion we are getting on here concerning Saudis and Iran

I’m beginning to think maybe Pakistan government officials have got the sane problem amongst themselves