Why Pakistan has abandoned F-16 Deal with US....???

[MastanKhan]

I am not trying to insult you.

Truth like Mr. Hersh's dubious account that have been thoroughly refuted?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/separating-fact-from-seymour-hershs-fiction-about-bin-laden-1431714139

Mr. Hersh credited a retired Pakistani brigadier Usman Khalid for leaking details of whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden. Unfortunately, Usman Khalid have passed away but his family have strongly denied this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...centre-of-new-Bin-Laden-death-conspiracy.html

Now tell me, why a Pakistani doctor is in jail under the charges of treason?

Hi,

Because he sold pakistan to the americans---that is why----.

He had the chance to leave with his family---but he thumbed his nose at pakistan and dared them by staying behind---.

Hersch's posts just came out recently----I have been stating this since the Osama killings----.

Why was Jonathan Pollard in jail? Israel was and is a bossom buddy---an ally like no other---.

 

[LeGenD]

Hi,

Because he sold pakistan to the americans---that is why----.

He had the chance to leave with his family---but he thumbed his nose at pakistan and dared them by staying behind---.

Hersch's posts just came out recently----I have been stating this since the Osama killings----.

Why was Jonathan Pollard in jail? Israel was and is a bossom buddy---an ally like no other---.

On one hand, you are claiming that Pakistani military leadership was responsible for Operation Neptune Spear; that former COAS (Pervaiz Kayani) and former head of ISI (Shuja Pasha) were responsible for the raid. On the other hand, you are claiming that Dr. Shakil Afridi betrayed Pakistan. Take your pick.

Hersh's account should be taken with grain of salt. His entire account comes apart based on the single fact that Brigadier Usman Khalid (the man who supposedly tipped-off the Americans about whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden according to Mr. Hersh) had nothing to do with Operation Neptune Spear. Khalid's familiy revealed that Khalid was suffering from cancer and preoccupied with the treatment during his last years.

 

[MastanKhan]

On one hand, you are claiming that Pakistani military leadership was responsible for Operation Neptune Spear; that former COAS (Pervaiz Kayani) and former head of ISI (Shuja Pasha) were responsible for the raid. On the other hand, you are claiming that Dr. Shakil Afridi betrayed Pakistan. Take your pick.

Hersh's account should be taken with grain of salt. His entire account comes apart based on the single fact that Brigadier Usman Khalid (the man who supposedly tipped-off the Americans about whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden according to Mr. Hersh) had nothing to do with Operation Neptune Spear. Khalid's familiy revealed that Khalid was suffering from cancer and preoccupied with the treatment during his last years.

Sir,

Because his betrayal was setup to make pakistan look bad the way it ended. He supposedly claimed too much to get extra credit and got caught in his own web.

History has told us many a times that there are single individuals who give out the information that leads to the truth later---and many a times these individuals either die of mysterious deaths or are just discredited so bad that they prefer silence over anything else.

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

No---it does not---. It only reflects on the the average office business life---or average family life---. Nations have many a times screwed themselves up by forming alliances on personal likes and dislikes of their leaders.

A national interest is not a medical surgical room---or a " clean " computer assembly room where decisions are made with 100% purity in mind---and they are not simply ' one sided ' as i t being assumed that they are.

Just like after the russians left---it is a TOTAL LIE that the americans left just like that---and let the Taliban come into power.

The truth is that it was the Mujahideen who abandoned the U S---and you ask for what and for which kind of benefits and interests---!

The afghan mujahideen chose Saddam Hussein over the U S---and here is the U S fuming---we help save your ar-se from fire and now you ditch us for Saddam---.

You have to understand---once the U S goes in---it does not ditch its allies just like that. It tries its best that the alienating nation's thinking would come around.

Having an alliance with the U S is like playing a constant round of FENCING with the U S---. You have to keep it involved---you have to push it and needle it and play hard ball all the time---you have to poke him hard and make it feel the push and the pain---.

But if you do this and you are honest with your motherland---the U S is not going anywhere.

You make the U S believe in the interests---and that is where Gen Kiyani out of COWARDICE and Gen Raheel out of simplicity have failed to understand the concern---.

When you deal with the U S---you have to learn to stop in mid-stride and change directions in a fluid motion---

You PARRY & RIPOSTE----.

There is one main thing that Pakistan forgot---you never let the big guy push you hard----. Even in one on one friendships---the bigger guy pushes the smaller guy and if the little guy lets him get away with it---he is done.

So---when the U S struck pakistan the first time---it should have struck back---just like the Israelis did---you have to force the respect and earn the respect.

Bottomline----relationships are not like an arithmatic problem.

There is far more to international geopolitics than fencing or car salesmanship, much of it pretty straightforward.

I am done with this thread. Let the conspiracy theories flourish here.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Now tell me, why a Pakistani doctor is in jail under the charges of treason?

Goat-Scape.

 

[MastanKhan]

There is far more to international geopolitics than fencing or car salesmanship, much of it pretty straightforward.

I am done with this thread. Let the conspiracy theories flourish here.

Hi,

But there is less of accounting involved in it---that is a guarantee.

 

[Viper0011.]

Mr. Hersh credited a retired Pakistani brigadier Usman Khalid for leaking details of whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden.

This is bullshiit. This entire thing was run and managed by an American lady officer, who had passion to capture or kill OBL. There was no "brigadier" or anyone from the Pakistani side involved into this. This was one of those "silent" ops.

Reminder for people who followed Musharraf, the US (and our President Bush) around 2004 had openly told Mushy (and it was in news for a while), that "every-time we share information with you, the bad guys leave before we get there".

So the communication link for things at this serious level had been broken way before this entire situation took place. In fact, a good frame of reference would be a Hollywood movie based on this true story of finding this idiot and taking him out. You guys should watch it. And no, its not propaganda. They don't give credit to anyone special. They just show how things happened and all other stuff involved in it. The movie's name is Zero Dark Thirty.

 

[Zain Malik]

You all the guys are going off topic and fighting with each other plz follow the topic and carry on....

 

[MastanKhan]

You all the guys are going off topic and fighting with each other plz follow the topic and carry on....

Kid,

What is your input in this thread---except copying and pasting a news item.

 

[Zain Malik]

Kid,

What is your input in this thread---except copying and pasting a news item.

Kindly explain your role except quarreling with each other....

 

[MastanKhan]

This is bullshiit. This entire thing was run and managed by an American lady officer, who had passion to capture or kill OBL. There was no "brigadier" or anyone from the Pakistani side involved into this. This was one of those "silent" ops.

Reminder for people who followed Musharraf, the US (and our President Bush) around 2004 had openly told Mushy (and it was in news for a while), that "every-time we share information with you, the bad guys leave before we get there".

So the communication link for things at this serious level had been broken way before this entire situation took place. In fact, a good frame of reference would be a Hollywood movie based on this true story of finding this idiot and taking him out. You guys should watch it. And no, its not propaganda. They don't give credit to anyone special. They just show how things happened and all other stuff involved in it. The movie's name is Zero Dark Thirty.

Hi,

What do you mean by " bad guys "---is that what has caused the justifiable killings of 4 million muslims by the U S military and their lackies---.

If the U S want Osama that bad---they would have killed him at Kandhar when he was on the drone camera---if they still wanted him that bad---they could have killed him at tora bora.

The U S military let every fckr escape---and then they have the audacity to blame pakistan for that---.

They pushed every terrorist into pakistan---what a staged drama---.

 

[Viper0011.]

What do you mean by " bad guys "---is that what has caused the justifiable killings of 4 million muslims by the U S military and their lackies---.

If the U S want Osama that bad---they would have killed him at Kandhar when he was on the drone camera---if they still wanted him that bad---they could have killed him at tora bora.

The U S military let every fckr escape---and then they have the audacity to blame pakistan for that---.

They pushed every terrorist into pakistan---what a staged drama---.

1) "Bad Guys" was a reference to the SAME butchers who've killed over 50,000 Pakistani men, women and soldiers!! Hopefully this would help in understanding the definition of the bad guys.

2) OBL was never on the Drone camera. That's a very far fetched statement. He wasn't "locked in" by anything even in Tora Bora. The US carpet bombed that place knowing he was there. You can pound mountains in a 5-7 mile radius but how do you know which hole to look into? But they knew they were there. What didn't happen and the US law makers brought that up for years, was that the ground forces should've been sent to search every single hole after the carpet bombing to make sure he was either dead, or captured. But to make statements like we know exactly which earthly coordinate he was sitting down taking a dump, is a very naive and childish statement, and obviously, shows people with some knowledge how far it really is from the real issue.

3) The US military "pushed" every fu**er who didn't get killed in their offense. That push per agreement with Mushy required the Pakistani military on the other side. But again, the concept famous in those days was the "Strategic depth"!! That took over common sense and these terrorists were allowed to settle into FATA. Well, that settlement from 2002, brought tremendous amounts of blood and killings inside Pakistan and the Pakistani Army as of today is busy in that clean up. These effing fools are murderers, they do not have any respect for human lives, whether its a Children's school in Peshawer or a Civil airport in Karachi. The US had warned Pakistan this before even 911 that these people will try to bite Pakistan in the rear. Exactly that's what happened. If Mushy had followed his commitment, these mofo's would've been captured or killed back then. Thousands of precious lives inside Pakistan would've been saved AND India wouldn't have militarized idiots to use for their purposes against Pakistan. You provided refuge to your worst enemy to be frank here!! These decisions were made in Mushy's time and they didn't show any care or thoughtfulness or strategy on Mushy's part.

He didn't just played a double game with the US. He actually played a double game with Pakistan. If you see the geopolitical realities now, you can CLEARLY see the US administration's behavior sort of a reminder of wounds that Mushy put on. Today, if he's reading this or taking a look at the geo-political events (NSG, F-16, etc, etc), he ought to be thinking "Man, I fu**ed up big times"!! Whatever happened to that saying today that had become a running joke among the Pakistani corps commanders that "we got Americans by the balls in Afghanistan"???. Soon, India will be sending in about a few hundred thousand military into Afghanistan as they've asked for it and the US wants India to show more of a regional power and ally status. And India is all willing. So the Afghan border will essentially go into Indian control in a couple of years. Do you realize how bad that would be for Pakistan? India on two sides and Iran (also India on the back-end) on the third side!! That's pretty dam concerning if you ask me!!!

You all the guys are going off topic and fighting with each other plz follow the topic and carry on....

No one's off topic. We are discussing the reasons WHY the F-16's deal is where it is today and the current and historical reasons behind it. We are also not fighting, this is a debate. I am putting in the American perspective and MK is providing his. I am sure others will jump in and provide theirs too. Its all a part of a healthy system and a debate. No general is going to take over this debate and do a coupe, I promise . Read up, gain some more knowledge if the topic is new to you or you didn't know a lot about it and enjoy the PDF experience

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

This is bullshiit. This entire thing was run and managed by an American lady officer, who had passion to capture or kill OBL. There was no "brigadier" or anyone from the Pakistani side involved into this. This was one of those "silent" ops.

Reminder for people who followed Musharraf, the US (and our President Bush) around 2004 had openly told Mushy (and it was in news for a while), that "every-time we share information with you, the bad guys leave before we get there".

So the communication link for things at this serious level had been broken way before this entire situation took place. In fact, a good frame of reference would be a Hollywood movie based on this true story of finding this idiot and taking him out. You guys should watch it. And no, its not propaganda. They don't give credit to anyone special. They just show how things happened and all other stuff involved in it. The movie's name is Zero Dark Thirty.

The OBL is really a curse for the USA, and a great boon for China. Even at his death he provided the stealth technology to China due to that chopper crash. The US military should abandon these choppers for operations at the first place. In Vietnam war 3K of them got lost. To free hostages in Iran they hit each other and cost Jimmy Carter, otherwise a fine gentleman, his presidency. And now the materials science behind being stealth is fully understood by the Chinese and they've become masters in duplicating it at will. I won't be surprised if some scaled down version of RAM coating is available in Alibaba to avoid police radar while speeding......

 

[Thorough Pro]

In otherwise a very serious and sober discussion what comes to mind reading the highlighted part is LOL

This is bullshiit. This entire thing was run and managed by an American lady officer, who had passion to capture or kill OBL. There was no "brigadier" or anyone from the Pakistani side involved into this. This was one of those "silent" ops.

Reminder for people who followed Musharraf, the US (and our President Bush) around 2004 had openly told Mushy (and it was in news for a while), that "every-time we share information with you, the bad guys leave before we get there".

So the communication link for things at this serious level had been broken way before this entire situation took place. In fact, a good frame of reference would be a Hollywood movie based on this true story of finding this idiot and taking him out. You guys should watch it. And no, its not propaganda. They don't give credit to anyone special. They just show how things happened and all other stuff involved in it. The movie's name is Zero Dark Thirty.

 

[Viper0011.]

The OBL is really a curse for the USA, and a great boon for China. Even at his death he provided the stealth technology to China due to that chopper crash. The US military should abandon these choppers for operations at the first place. In Vietnam war 3K of them got lost. To free hostages in Iran they hit each other and cost Jimmy Carter, otherwise a fine gentleman, his presidency. And now the materials science behind being stealth is fully understood by the Chinese and they've become masters in duplicating it at will. I won't be surprised if some scaled down version of RAM coating is available in Alibaba to avoid police radar while speeding......

???? What's the topic of your post? Just rambling.......?? The Chinese stole American stealth designs, there is nothing that they've "learned" through science, hard work and experiment

The downed chopper's tail at best could give them an understanding of some RAM quoting but the real experience gained was through stolen designs. Next time, give me an example of someone who actually did research in this field like the US has, and she's been building Stealth tech for 40+ years now!!!! The rest of the is off topic and I don't really understand the purpose of!!

In otherwise a very serious and sober discussion what comes to mind reading the highlighted part is LOL

That's ALL you could come up with? If you ANYTHING factual, I'd have seen it in your response. So yea,LOL obviously is the answer when you have no facts to counter or the discussion is much higher than one's IQ!!