What's new

Why Pakistan does not recognize to Israel ?

LMFAO!!!

First, LOL @ an indian posting official propaganda video of Israel's ministry of foreign affairs (original creator of this video for propaganda purposes).

And then, LFMAO for saying Pak needs Israel for development.

indians are such inferiority complex stricken people that they start to lick everyone's arse to get validation.

With powerful and resourceful allies like China, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and having key partnerships with Europe and United States---Pakistan 'needs' Israel? LOL..

Go and keep sucking israel's dick as it suits you as an indian. But please, don't overdo it.
The video might be of Propaganda purpose, i just posted the reason y Israel will not go back to the 1967 position and Arab world including Pakistan can again try there might Umah strength on tiny Israel and see what there powerful allies do to them in packs.

And you knows very well how much Pakistani allies are helping Pakistan right now.
 
.
The opposite to Shirk is monotheism or tauheed. If that is extremeism (to you) then so be it. It is not my problem.



We should be wary of being partners with Zionist allied countries such as USA, Saudi Arabia and even Turkey. Pakistan should disengage with NATO and advice our Turkish brothers to do the same. Remember Surah Al-Maidah. verse 51 "Oh you who have faith, do not take (such) Jews and (such) Christians as your Awliah (friends and allies) who (themselves) are Awliyah (friends and allies) of each other. And whoever amongst you turn to them for friendship and alliance, would belong to them (and therefore not to us). Surely Allah does not provide guidance to a people who commit Dhulm''

Bhai-jaan, please don't quote quran like this without looking at the reasons for the ayah being revealed, seerah,tafsir and the hadith relating to event and time and place. I have debated Zionists and extremists non-Muslims and they quote the above verse not knowing it's context. I really can't be bothered with a full explanation but Allah does not say ALL Jews and Christians are enemies of Muslims, otherwise we would not be able to MARRY Jewish and Christian women. Nabi as'salaathu-was'salaam would not have sent sahabah radi'Allahu anhum to Abbasinyah (government by a Christian King).

Enemies amongst them are clear and our Government deals with them openly and secretly.
 
.
Apparently that statement was understood by Muslims to function only for the moment, otherwise Muslims would not have allied with Jews less than a century later to wrest Spain from Christian rule.

Words of Quran do not come with an expiry date neither they come with list of exceptions. Allah says and those who ally with Jews and Christians (as allies in war) are one of them. But its interesting when a Jew tries to explain Quran to a Muslim, specially the verse which is against his own interest.
 
.
Pakistan should never recognize Israel as state, till Jerusalem become capital of Palestine and Palestine gets their state.

PS: Some people are mingling Israel with Jews and making it Jews vs Islam contest. Which is faulty ideology. "laQum deenuQum waliya deen" . So no it is not Jews vs Islam. It is just illegal occupation and corruption from Israeli state while killing unarmed civilians of Palestine.

Words of Quran do not come with an expiry date neither they come with list of exceptions. Allah says and those who ally with Jews and Christians (as allies in war) are one of them. But its interesting when a Jew tries to explain Quran to a Muslim, specially the verse which is against his own interest.

Wrong, Read Quran again. And post 3 versus before and 3 after to get the complete contest.
 
Last edited:
.
Bhai-jaan, please don't quote quran like this without looking at the reasons for the ayah being revealed, seerah,tafsir and the hadith relating to event and time and place. I have debated Zionists and extremists non-Muslims and they quote the above verse not knowing it's context. I really can't be bothered with a full explanation but Allah does not say ALL Jews and Christians are enemies of Muslims, otherwise we would not be able to MARRY Jewish and Christian women. Nabi as'salaathu-was'salaam would not have sent sahabah radi'Allahu anhum to Abbasinyah (government by a Christian King).

Enemies amongst them are clear and our Government deals with them openly and secretly.

You and I are on the same page. As individuals and families there are many friendly Christians and even Jews in America and UK and even other Zionist allied countries that we Muslims could have friendly relations and alliance HOWEVER as a collective such as nations we should not make alliances with them as they are a people who commit tyranny. Having said that, we can and should have alliances with such Christian nations who are not zionist allied such as the Russian Federation, Serbia and perhaps some countries in South America or Africa?

You are correct. When studying a subject one must go to all the data regarding that subject before jumping to conclusions. It was due to lack of time and space that I did not do this, perhaps I should have made that clearer in my post. However please do me the justice of reading all my posts on this thread and on "Should Pakistan recognize Israel".

I had also posted a scholarly article for the layman explaining that ayah, taking into consideration, tafsir, hadith and other ayahs etc. I will post it again for your benfefit. A commentary to Maulana Imran Hosein’s interpretation of the verse.

In short Surah Al-Maidah verse 51 is anticipating a mysterious rapprochement between (some) Christians and some (Jews) which the world today calls Zionism.
 
.
Do you only protest Israel's actions or the entirety of the state and seek to not recognize its existence, so that you can deny its existence or so that you can limit it to whatever decent standard we may see fit?
I dont question its existence...My previous posts have established that....I mean how can we deny a country that is already carved?

What I do refuse them is the "new" boundary they carved themselves as illegal occupiers! The same boundary which has been growing (actions) and pushing the locals back attacking them, destroying their homes as well as killing their children! I also reject their hate speeches (actions)

Now if the answer is that you wish for a 2 state solution, then without need of further forethought you should be accepting to the idea of recognising Israel. We in our current state, we are not even in the picture, we're a country of 200 million, disconnected with thousands miles of land and sea, Israel despite being tiny, has a much larger GDP and we have hardly any trade with them either, they have the backing of the most powerful nation and the blessing of the richest block of nations (or so it may seem to us).
If I were to accept a larger GDP with blood on my hands, I am sorry my conscience wasnt nurtured that way....

They have the backings based on sympathy of holocaust, something Palestinians did not inflict on them but the same white people who are backing them did! Technically speaking the Palestinians are scapegoats and the future holocaust for the doing of some nations to another....

So what do you propose be done to further the cause of peace and of legitimate Palestinian statehood? Although Pakistan will remain not very relevant, until it can build up the economy and be a larger player... in the mean time, do we continue to be distant protesters that do literally nothing productive and even when applying pressure be our wish? We're not in any position to issue forth any said pressure, even though none may gainsay us in our wrath and rage at seeing the injustice.
By being distant we are sending a stern warning (though as you say it doesnt yield) but if only other countries had the ability to stand their "humanity" ground and do something similar- no business until they clear their act!

I see by recognizing them (do not mistake this for acknowledging their existence coz that is not up to us to acknowledge as they already exist), they still hold a doubt in their heads...Mind you we arent the only country standing our ground...


At present, a total of 32 United Nations member states do not recognise the State of Israel: 18 of the 22 members of the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen; a further 11 members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, Chad, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Mali, Niger, and Pakistan. Other countries which do not recognise Israel include Bhutan, Cuba, and North Korea. in 2002, the Arab League proposed the recognition of Israel by Arab countries as part of the resolution of the Palestine-Israel conflict in the Arab Peace Initiative.

International recognition of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now in 2002 the Arab league proposed to recognize the nation in return for a peace initiative which is still lingering but the weak countries have conducted an "open secret" kind of trade....

Some countries that do not recognise Israel have also questioned the legitimacy of Israel. Some do not accept Israeli passports and some also do not accept passports of other countries whose holder has an Israeli visa endorsed in it

Now these few who have been firm on their believe and solidarity with Palestinians and against Israeli breaking of human rights rules......have left a small question about what are you doing!
Kehtay hain aqalmandoun kay liyea ishara hi kafi hai...And mind you Israel is posed as an aqalmand nation!

For what little we can do, I'd suggest we recognise Israel, build diplomatic and trade relations, and then see ourselves to be in a position of influence, albeit minor influence, and use it as leverage, as ground for conversation and relations to voice our concerns when necessary, take concrete steps to make our protest heard, and if not heard, then may it be felt. Other reasons for doing this is that it places the Israelis and their supporters in a positions where they cannot delegitimise our protest simply because we already take an extreme stance on their nation, and that in said knowledge they would not wish to heed anything that we say. They can't take the stance that all the Muslim world is somehow against them and that no peace can be had thus with us. The neutral powers can look and perceive that Israel would seek to deny statehood for Palestine yet all the other Muslim nations might recognise it and advise it to seek a resolution.


The ONLY problem with statement is, if we recognize will we automatically have a say to what they do? So far they have not accepted anything said by UN who recognizes them....So far they have also never stopped their transgression when either UK or USA screams at them....but it HAS posed a "question mark" by us holding our ground...Be it a small question but it is still lurking are you legitimate?

1st question should be WILL IT BENEFIT US? - National interest
2nd question should be do we have ANY influence (difference) by recognizing them or not? History and present state of affairs tell us they dont even listen to father UN who the heck are we?
3rd should be can we use ANY leverage against them? Has anything in history worked against them? They will just cry Anti Semitic and in the end we will get a bad name again!
4th they know whole Muslim world is not against them....we ALL KNOW Arab nations have relations with them so the cant say that even now!

Such steps would then also further dent Israel credibility at a diplomatic level and among neutral powers. Right now, the current approach is neither productive nor useful. If we don't try any other way, it is solely because of our pride and in its end it is folly, and perhaps even counter productive.
You are being too hopeful....The stance now is slightly more powerful as it puts a question mark on israel....while recognizing them wont guarantee any cooperation from their side!

stolen land?? According to Kuran, God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle there [Sura (5:21)].
Why cherry pick read the full context even if we take that specific verse:

O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back [from fighting in Allah 's cause] and [thus] become losers.

Right now Jews are killing Allah's people which automatically makes them not entitled as the next words say so...Allah's cause ALSO equals to love thy neighbour dont spread mischief and a whole list of things they are not doing!

Lets continue shall we:

Actually next verse shows they chose not to:

They said, "O Moses, indeed within it is a people of tyrannical strength, and indeed, we will never enter it until they leave it; but if they leave it, then we will enter.
Said two men from those who feared [to disobey] upon whom Allah had bestowed favor, "Enter upon them through the gate, for when you have entered it, you will be predominant. And upon Allah rely, if you should be believers. They said, "O Moses, indeed we will not enter it, ever, as long as they are within it; so go, you and your Lord, and fight. Indeed, we are remaining right here." [Moses] said, "My Lord, indeed I do not possess except myself and my brother, so part us from the defiantly disobedient people." [ Allah ] said, "Then indeed, it is forbidden to them for forty years [in which] they will wander throughout the land. So do not grieve over the defiantly disobedient people."

Do continue reading.....Nowhere does Quran say what you are trying to portray unless you cherry pick!



 
.
Israel the land given by God to the Jews??? LOL....even the Jewish scriptures says the holy land will only come into existence when the messiah comes,no killing or corruption will happen in the holy land whereas Israel has rampant corruption and daily killing. Moreover Israel has tried to carryout strikes to destroy Pakistan nuclear sites but they have failed.
 
.
اسرائیل کوئی ملک نہیں، بلکہ فلسطین کی جگہ پر کیا گیا قبضہ ہے. جیسے داعش نے شام اور عراق کی زمین پر قبضہ کر رکھا ہے.
 
.
The opposite to Shirk is monotheism or tauheed. If that is extremeism (to you) then so be it. It is not my problem.
Tauheed in Islam involves more than just monotheism, its precise meaning is a matter of dispute between the different schools, isn't that so?

Words of Quran do not come with an expiry date neither they come with list of exceptions.
The Quran is written in Arabic. Arab culture is "high-context": plain words aren't complete communication, you have to know the allusions and formulas which were specific to the sub-culture and period to grasp the proper meaning and application. Otherwise you are endorsing the idea that the meaning of the Quran is meant to change over time, yes?

We Muslims do not recognize Israel not JUST because of her oppression but also that she is blaspheming in the Holy Land.
Are you aware that the Islamic concept of blasphemy has been deliberately distorted in Pakistan?

....My first article documented the original authentic Hanafi position on the penalty for blasphemy i.e. it is not a hudd offense, there is no death penalty for repentant Muslim offenders, no death penalty for non-Muslims and there is a provision of pardon in all cases.

Why then, do the religious forces deny or hide this?

My research partner and I went on a mission to find the answer to this question.

We met Fareed Paracha of Jamaat-i-Islami, as well as the president of Tanzeem-i-Islami, Hafiz Akif Saeed (son of Dr Israr Ahmed).

After presenting our evidence of the factual inaccuracies from which the current narrative draws its strength, we asked for their opinion. We got the same answer – that it is a matter of
maslihat (public good). It is not in the best interest of the public that information like this be openly disseminated -
link

Using the maslihat justification it follows that just about any aspect of the Qu'ran may be misrepresented or distorted for the purpose of gaining and exercising power by an elite. (Note, too, the secularized use of this "doctrine of necessity" to justify Pakistan's military dictatorships.)
 
.
Tauheed in Islam involves more than just monotheism, its precise meaning is a matter of dispute between the different schools, isn't that so?

The Quran is written in Arabic. Arab culture is "high-context": plain words aren't complete communication, you have to know the allusions and formulas which were specific to the sub-culture and period to grasp the proper meaning and application. Otherwise you are endorsing the idea that the meaning of the Quran is meant to change over time, yes?

Are you aware that the Islamic concept of blasphemy has been deliberately distorted in Pakistan?

....My first article documented the original authentic Hanafi position on the penalty for blasphemy i.e. it is not a hudd offense, there is no death penalty for repentant Muslim offenders, no death penalty for non-Muslims and there is a provision of pardon in all cases.

Why then, do the religious forces deny or hide this?

My research partner and I went on a mission to find the answer to this question.

We met Fareed Paracha of Jamaat-i-Islami, as well as the president of Tanzeem-i-Islami, Hafiz Akif Saeed (son of Dr Israr Ahmed).

After presenting our evidence of the factual inaccuracies from which the current narrative draws its strength, we asked for their opinion. We got the same answer – that it is a matter of
maslihat (public good). It is not in the best interest of the public that information like this be openly disseminated -
link

Using the maslihat justification it follows that just about any aspect of the Qu'ran may be misrepresented or distorted for the purpose of gaining and exercising power by an elite. (Note, too, the secularized use of this "doctrine of necessity" to justify Pakistan's military dictatorships.)

I am no scholar but if you want to know what tauheed entails I advice you to consult scholars of the various schools.

I do not doubt that many Islamic concepts have been distorted in Pakistan, many indeed, however these distortions do not negate today's Israel being an imposter. She is not the Holy Israel of David and Solomon (PBUT) and by her very existence in the Holy Land she is committing blashphemy. She should return to the religion of Abraham (PBUH) and follow his righteous conduct to claim true legitimacy.
 
. .
I am no scholar but if you want to know what tauheed entails I advice you to consult scholars of the various schools.
My point is that based on history you may be stretching the applications and interpretations of the Qu'ran beyond their intent, a subject of dispute between Islamic scholars.

...these distortions do not negate today's Israel being an imposter. She is not the Holy Israel of David and Solomon (PBUT)...
Oh, does it say in the Qu'ran Israel has to be the "Holy Israel of David and Solomon" for Jews to re-settle their homeland?

and by her very existence in the Holy Land she is committing blashphemy.
We've pretty much agreed that your concepts of blasphemy are heavily flawed so why do you insist on applying them?

She should return to the religion of Abraham (PBUH) and follow his righteous conduct to claim true legitimacy.
When did you ever see Israel being given the benefit of the doubt? When did you ever hear a mullah apologize for believing in a false accusation meant to criminalize Zionists, like the deaths that occurred in the Mavi Marmara affair? TMA, it's precisely the "righteous conduct" of Israel that Islamists, antisemites, and anti-Zionists insist upon distorting and lying about. Wouldn't Pakistan do well to seek to escape that well of hatred and unjustifiable religious power?
 
.
My point is that based on history you may be stretching the applications and interpretations of the Qu'ran beyond their intent, a subject of dispute between Islamic scholars.

Oh, does it say in the Qu'ran Israel has to be the "Holy Israel of David and Solomon" for Jews to re-settle their homeland?

We've pretty much agreed that your concepts of blasphemy are heavily flawed so why do you insist on applying them?

When did you ever see Israel being given the benefit of the doubt? When did you ever hear a mullah apologize for believing in a false accusation meant to criminalize Zionists, like the deaths that occurred in the Mavi Marmara affair? TMA, it's precisely the "righteous conduct" of Israel that Islamists, antisemites, and anti-Zionists insist upon distorting and lying about. Wouldn't Pakistan do well to seek to escape that well of hatred and unjustifiable religious power?


I am not stretching applications of the Quran. Read Sheik Imran Hosein et al and you will see that today's Israel is an imposter and committing oppression and doing it in the Holy Land!

David and Solomon (PBHT) were righteous men who followed the religion of Abraham (PBUH) however when the Children of Israel committed "fasad" and went astray the deed to the Holy Land was voided (it was given back to them but then they continued their fasad and it was voided again). I do not wish to go into what those "fasad" was, you can read Imran Hosein to find out more about this. That deed is still void today! The Lord God forbade the Children of Israel the possession of the Holy Land for their wicked conduct even though it was initially given to them and it was their homeland. And the Lord God is NOT unjust.

Now do you understand Israel's blasphemy?
 
.
...The Lord God forbade the Children of Israel the possession of the Holy Land for their wicked conduct even though it was initially given to them and it was their homeland.
The Jewish tradition - backed up by experience - is that G-d is not unjust and will remember the Covenant with Abraham and thus will not dispossess Israel from the Land forever. Israel was evicted by the Babylonians and returned over a generation later under the Persians. Israel was dispersed by the Romans 2,000 years ago and for the past seventy years has thrived despite being surrounded and even infested by more numerous enemies seeking to destroy her. If you are looking for a miracle or a demonstration of G-d's will, do you really need to look further than that?

And what does it mean in Islam when a Muslim seeks to defy G-d's will? As there are no further prophets in Islam after Mohammed, don't you have to look to such otherwise-inexplicable phenomena as Israel to demonstrate error? The attitudes of Hamas et al that "it's just Allah testing us, death to the Jews" is just a cop-out, isn't it?
 
.
جب فلسطین پاکستان اور بھارت کے درمیان غیرجانبداری دکھارہا ہے
تو یہ کیوں نہیں ہوسکتا ہے کہ فلسطین کھل کر مسلہ کشمیر پرپاکستان کی سائیڈ لے۔
فلسطین ایک تاکتور ملک نہین ہے۔ انہین دشھمنوں کی نہین دوستوں کی ضورت ہے۔ وہ اگر اندیا کے حلاف کشمیر کی بات کر لیں تو نہ ان کو کوی فایدہ ہو گا اور نہ ہمین۔
 
.
Back
Top Bottom