Why Islam took a violent and intolerant turn in Pakistan

[53fd]

I think it was 25000 Palestinians killed by Zia.

People get killed in wars my friend, just in case you forgot that. There weren't 25000 Palestinian losses, I just looked it up, it says anywhere between 2000-10,000. You're always good with exaggerations

Black September in Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[53fd]

So what does it matter who started. The crux was a Pakistani Brigadier with the official sanction of his Govt killed about 10000 Palestinians which included mainly civilians and effectively ended Palestinians credible resistance towards Israel.

It doesn't matter to me why Pakistan did what it did. But it was certainly not out of any love towards the Palestinians.On the contrary it helped destroy a potent Palestinian resistance towards Israel.

Not really, and the losses are estimated anywhere from 2000-10,000. And one Pakistani did not kill these many people, there were many belligerents & offenders. And do you want me to remind you why this war started? You probably forgot why I did. And lastly, do you want me to start making this thread about India? I very easily can.

 

[Ahmad]

Do you know why the TTP came into power Ahmad? It has completely different dynamics to the ones of the Afghan Taliban.

Formally they announced their existnece later on, but in real terms they(both panjabi and Fata taliban) were allied to the Afghani Taliban and were helping them in large numbers before 9/11. check this one:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...sting-video-about-afghanistan-taliban-na.html

 

[notsuperstitious]

Do you know why the TTP came into power Ahmad? It has completely different dynamics to the ones of the Afghan Taliban.

Buddy thats so predictable.

Your self serving statements and pure lies (Taliban brutality AFTER 9/11!!!) are just mental gymnastics to justify your self interests, that includes supporting terrorism in neighboring countries.

Being a product, you are not eligible to analyse the process.

 

[T-Faz]

I will let you guys continue, just a few points I would interject on.

Not true. Hindus also used religion to fight the Islamic invaders. Who were much worse than anything you have seen in Afghanistan.

So Muslims are not the only ones who have used religion for fighting then. Metro over there was stating that if followers of a certain religion use it for violent means, then there is something wrong with the religion itself. He also alluded to the fact that it was only Islam which has been used to fight others, so you have proven him wrong and clearly stated that Hindu's too used religion for violence.

Worse is debatable but they were clearly not succesful enough.

Babri was a drop in the ocean compared to the thousands of templess destroyed by the Islamic invaders in India (and Pakistan and Afghanistan and Iran and Central Asia and.......). It was just one of the most important ones. Hindus have full right to get back all such shrines that were destroyed by the intolerant bigots.

We are talking about recent times and your thinking follows the same line put forward by Muslims extremists.

Even a single Dalit death makes news headlines in India! They are not a fraction of what is happening in the Islamic world on a daily basis.

So does everything that happens in the Muslim world because of religious beliefs. Your logic too is a bit twisted, just becuase they are a fraction of what happens in the Muslim world does not make them right, does it.

Its time to reevaluate the interpretation then.

 

[53fd]

the Taliban brutality has 2 pahses, post and before 9/11. I was talking about their atrocities/brutalites against civilians before the 9/11 since we rarely talk about it here. thier post 9/11 atrocity/brutality is today's news and we all know it.

Yes, I am not doubting their brutality pre 9/11, such as punishing those who grew poppy, or boys who practiced homosexuality, along with other stuff, such as harsh treatment of women. However, they first came into power by the popular support of the people, & at the time did not practice brutalities to the level post 9/11. Pre-9/11, they gave harsh punishments to those who they felt were going against Islam. And of course, to those people who did not side with them.

 

[53fd]

Yet they are able to claim all of Islam and you are not able to do a thing?

Is that what you are saying? Is Islam so easy to hijack?

When you are the second biggest religion in the world, & the fastest growing one too, & its 'Mecca' is in/belongs to Saudi Arabia, a Wahabi proxy of the West, bad things tend to happen, not to Islam, but to the people that follow them. Simple as.

 

[Bhairava]

Not really, and the losses are estimated anywhere from 2000-10,000. And one Pakistani did not kill these many people, there were many belligerents & offenders. And do you want me to remind you why this war started? You probably forgot why I did.

Simple !

You initially claimed that the PAF pilots joined Arab-Israeli war as help towards Palestine while in reality it was a payback to the Arab kings. So your first claim is annulled.

Secondly let it be a single Palestinian casualty - the thing is a Pakistani brigadier helped crush a potent,legitimate Palestinian resistance movement at the beck and call of his Arab king.

And lastly, do you want me to start making this thread about India? I very easily can.

Is this supposed to be a threat, tough guy ?

 

[53fd]

Yes, Pakistan considered them as assets and infact build them as an asset during Cold war.. Now the war was over and ally US was on the way (Leaving Afghanistan + Taliban whole as a liability) Then Pakistan (or to be specific Pakistan Army + ISI ) tried to utilize them as an assets for building a hypothetical Islamic regime with all Sharia and other tantrum..

What conclusive evidence do you have to support your claim, besides the conjecture of the think tanks & the conspiracy theorists?

 

[Ahmad]

Yes, I am not doubting their brutality pre 9/11, such as punishing those who grew poppy, or boys who practiced homosexuality, along with other stuff, such as harsh treatment of women. However, they first came into power by the popular support of the people, & at the time did not practice brutalities to the level post 9/11. Pre-9/11, they gave harsh punishments to those who they felt were going against Islam. And of course, to those people who did not side with them.

I am not even talking about homosexuality etc, let the whole country be gay, who cares. I was talking about the genocide of civiians by the taliban, the total destruction of cities and villages by them. they entered the houses and killed everybody who didnt look like them.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Yes, Pakistan considered them as assets and infact build them as an asset during Cold war.. Now the war was over and ally US was on the way (Leaving Afghanistan + Taliban whole as a liability) Then Pakistan (or to be specific Pakistan Army + ISI ) tried to utilize them as an assets for building a hypothetical Islamic regime with all Sharia and other tantrum.. but when the same gun misfired back then suddenly taliban became Liability again and this time not only for US but Pakistan also... Hence whenever you say that what is happening against Muslims in Afghanistan..First think you as a major responsible for the same...

We did the same in past and faced the heat too..

Taliban is indeed an asset for those who are fighting against them. No Taliban means no justification to invade countries and dictate their policy around the world. You think this WOT is to save the humanity?
If that was the case then these scumbags would have never been left alone with false pride that was installed in them after supposingly defeating soviets. A good solution would have been, disarming them by those who armed them (does not just includes Pakistan) and educating them enough so they wont be turned into barbarians and converting them into farmers or something useful for the society. Islam says perform jihad with your "OWN" hands, tongue, and wealth. You tell me was this condition of Jihad fulfilled by these cave monkeys?

 

[Bhairava]

^ Oh Ahmad you are barking up the wrong tree here.

According to them Taliban are fine,good freedom fighters as long as they are in Afghanistan. But if by chance they do the same in Pakistan what they used to do in Afghanistan they will be declared terrorists,murtads and F-16s will start bombing them.

 

[53fd]

Formally they announced their existnece later on, but in real terms they(both panjabi and Fata taliban) were allied to the Afghani Taliban and were helping them in large numbers before 9/11. check this one:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...sting-video-about-afghanistan-taliban-na.html

False, the TTP formed in December 2007 as a result of the Lal Masjid attacks in May 2007. Before that, certain extremists from the FATA got together, inspired by the Afghan Taliban (who wanted to overthrow the puppet regime in Afghanistan), wanted to overthrow the puppet regime in Islamabad & replace it with Shariah. Most of the TTP are from the FATA agencies, not from Afghanistan, unlike the Afghan Taliban; & they were not a part of the Mujahideen either, unlike the Afghan Taliban (some commanders were).

 

[53fd]

Formally they announced their existnece later on, but in real terms they(both panjabi and Fata taliban) were allied to the Afghani Taliban and were helping them in large numbers before 9/11. check this one:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...sting-video-about-afghanistan-taliban-na.html

You know what the interesting thing is? This video only further proves the vindication of the Pakistani government & authorities in their accused 'relationship' with the Afghan Taliban. I agree, some Pashtuns in FATA gave Afghan Taliban refuge in the Tribal Agencies after 2001. Many got inspired by them, & after drone attack attacks in FATA in 2006, went to Islamabad to get rid of the American puppet government, & install Shariat. Then Lal Masjid happened in May 2007, & the TTP was formed in December 2007 with Baitullah Mehsud as commander. It was these Pashtuns in FATA that gave refuge to Afghan Taliban under Pashtunwali after 9/11. And Pashtunwali is the reason why the Afghan Taliban still has safe havens in FATA (as well as ideological affiliations they have being inspired by the Afghan Taliban), Pakistani Law does not apply there. No Pakistani authority had stepped foot inside FATA even once before 2001, they let them handle their own affairs, to quell down movements for Pashtunistan, as there had been Pashtunistan movements in Bajaur Agency in the 60's coming from Afghanistan.

 

[53fd]

I am not even talking about homosexuality etc, let the whole country be gay, who cares. I was talking about the genocide of civiians by the taliban, the total destruction of cities and villages by them. they entered the houses and killed everybody who didnt look like them.

Again, I've accepted their brutality. But I am repeating myself again: did they come into power without the popular support of the people? Did they get the popular support of people by brutally torturing most of the Afghans in Afghanistan when they came into power? I don't want to divert the issue.