Why Is Pakistan More Legitimate than Israel?

[Guynextdoor2]

Then don't claim that the poles and german jews had a right to occupy other people's homes.

If you're lazy that's not my problem. those lands belong to the jews.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

Consider these facts about the creation of Israel and Pakistan.

Whenever I have received a call from a listener to my radio show challenging Israel’s legitimacy, I have asked these people if they ever called a radio show to challenge any other country’s legitimacy. In particular, I ask, have they ever questioned the legitimacy of Pakistan? The answer, of course, is always “no.” In fact, no caller ever understood why I even mentioned Pakistan. There are two reasons for this. First, of all the 200-plus countries in the world, only Israel’s legitimacy is challenged. So mentioning any other country seems strange to a caller. Second, almost no one outside of India and Pakistan knows anything about the founding of Pakistan. Only months before the U.N. adopted a proposal to partition Palestine into a Jewish and Arab state in 1947, India was partitioned into a Muslim and Hindu state. The Hindu state was, of course, India. And the Muslim state became known as Pakistan. It comprises 310,000 square miles, about 40,000 square miles larger than Texas. In both cases, the declaration of an independent state resulted in violence. As soon as the newly established state of Israel was declared in May 1948, it was invaded by six Arab armies. And the partition of India led to terrible violence between Muslims and Hindus. According to the final report of the United Nations Conciliation Commission, December 28, 1949, the 1948 war for Israel’s independence created 726,000 Arab refugees. Many sources put the figure at about 200,000 fewer. A roughly equal number of Jewish refugees — approximately 700,000 — were created when they were forcibly expelled from the Arab countries where they had lived for countless generations. In addition, approximately 10,000 Arabs were killed in the fighting that ensued after the Arab invasion of Israel.

(At this point he is drawing parallels between the two countries but I don't entirely agree with everything he is saying.)


Now let’s turn to the creation of Pakistan. According to the United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees, the creation of Pakistan resulted in 14 million refugees — Hindus fleeing Pakistan and Muslims fleeing India. Assuming a 50-50 split, the creation of Pakistan produced about 7 million Hindu refugees (I'd like to point out that to leave was optional, there still remained large number of Muslims and Hindus in both countries.) — at least ten times the number of Arab refugees that resulted from the war surrounding Israel’s creation. (The Israelis were not locals but European invaders, colonizing foreign land, but Indian and Pakistan refugees were peope of the same land andlargely the same race.) And the Mideast war, it should be recalled, was started by the Arab nations surrounding Israel. (That's called geography and that's because they invaded arab land so ofcourse they'd be surrounded by Arabs. It's like standing in a swimming pool but blaming the pool for surrounding you with water) Were it not for the Arab rejection of Israel’s creation (and existence within any borders) and the subsequent Arab invasion, there would have been no Arab refugees. (How does that even make sense? Also, he just drew parallels with India and Pakistan that's exactly what they did but that still created refugees) As regards deaths, the highest estimate of Arab deaths during the 1948 war following the partition of Palestine is 10,000. (Again this number is unclear and the highest estimate I found on Wikipedia was 12,000 so clearly he either he's trying to round down, or he's just lying here.) The number of deaths that resulted from the creation of Pakistan is around 1 million.(It's sad but it was also a larger land involved, as well as larger populations so perhaps ratio matters? Various sources give varying numbers, but this guy just put in the highest number he could find Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls and Casualty Statistics for Wars,Dictatorships and Genocides lowest one I could find was 200,000 go figure. )

I gathered some numbers from a quick Google search ( a quick search is not a good answer but it will do for a rough estimate.) the estimate for population of India and Pakistan in 1947 and got 330,450,000, in the Arab - Israel war both sides lost about 1% of their population, if both sides in 1947 India - Pakistan lost 1%, the death toll would have been 3,304,500 deaths. That means if you compare it by size of land involved or population involved, the Arab Israeli conflict was not any better. If there had been more people in Palestine the number would have been comparable to the holocaust. So once again huge difference.

In addition, according to the Indian government, at least 86,000 women were raped. Most historians believe the number to be far higher. The number of women raped when Israel was established is close to zero. From all evidence I could find, the highest estimate was 12. Given the spectacularly larger number of refugees and deaths caused by the partition of India and the creation of Pakistan, why does no one ever question the legitimacy Pakistan’s existence? This question is particularly valid given another fact: Never before in history was there a Pakistan. It was a completely new nation. Moreover, its creation was made possible solely because of Muslim invasion. It was Muslims who invaded India and killed about 60 million Hindus during the thousand-year Muslim rule of India. (Muslims have been around for a long time in India, there have been lots or Muslims and non-Muslim Kingdoms in India. A lot of India's heritage was built by Muslims like the Taj Mahal. The Kingdoms often fought for power so there is obviously some blood there.)The area now known as Pakistan was Hindu until it was invaded by the Muslims in A.D. 711. (and Jews were originally Egyptian, but the people coming to Palestine were Europeans. In India and Pakistan it was the locals who dicided what ) (Also a lot of Muslim and non-Muslim Pakistanis are children of people ancient civilizations that existed on this land and they have been continuously living there, so if they chose to be Muslim and have Pakistan that's their right.) On the other hand, modern Israel is the third Jewish state in the geographic area known as Palestine. The first was destroyed in 586 B.C., the second in A.D. 70. And there was never a non-Jewish sovereign state in Palestine. (But the Jews settling Palestine now are largely Europeans, the locals were majority Arab. The were some Jews but after the Europeans Jews arrived even they were split on being either Palestinian or Israeli. So it wasn't the desire of the locals for such a thing to happen but foreigners with influence in Britain and later the USA.) given all these facts, why is Israel’s legitimacy challenged, while the legitimacy of Pakistan, a state that had never before existed and whose creation resulted in the largest mass migration in recorded history, is never challenged? The answer is so obvious that only those who graduated from college and especially from graduate school need to be told: Israel is the one Jewish state in the world. So, while there are 49 Muslim-majority countries, and 22 Arab states, much of the world questions or outright rejects the right of only the one Jewish state, the size of New Jersey, to exist. If you are a member of the Presbyterian Church, send these facts to the leaders of the Presbyterian Church USA who voted to boycott Israel. If you are a student in Middle Eastern studies — or for that matter, almost any other humanities department — and your professor is anti-Israel, ask your professor why Pakistan is legitimate and Israel isn’t. The


Finally I think you can see the point I'm making here. Pakistan and Israel are two very different issues. When it came to Pakistan and India is was a decision that involved the locals. Israel was a policy imposed from afar. Now I know the British were involved in both situations, and played dirty politics but If Israel had not been created the same people that live in Palestine or Israel as some would call it, would not be there now. Instead a lot of those European Jews would have been living in Europe, however with India and Pakistan whether India-Pakistan were created or not, the people who live in the sub-continent today would largely still be living in the sub-continent.


Read more at: Why Is Pakistan More Legitimate than Israel? | National Review Online

Please note the numbers I calculated were found in a hurry. If you can find better figures please share. My purpose was not to play the number game as this person does. instead I was trying to show that the two situations are quite different. As with history someone might have a slightly different understanding but what I've said is largely agreed upon.

Why is there a need to justify Pakistan's existence?
Pakistan is a sovereign country that was carved out of South Asian territory held by British in 1947.

 

[Psychic]

If you're lazy that's not my problem. those lands belong to the jews.

Yes and I am the Raja of Kashmir.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Yes and I am the Raja of Kashmir.

Try it

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Israel is a powerful and SUCCESSFUL country ; that is what matters

 

[Psychic]

Try it

Pissed off eh? You had been saying the same sort of stuff.

 

[gau8av]

We really should take a leaf or two out of Israel's book and not just resettle our displaced people in the valley, but start demolishing the houses of anti state elements and making a great wall all along the loc.

 

[flameboard]

Why is there a need to justify Pakistan's existence?
Pakistan is a sovereign country that was carved out of South Asian territory held by British in 1947.

No need to justify Pakistan's existence exactly. The provinces that form chose to be a part of Pakistan

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Pissed off eh? You had been saying the same sort of stuff.

Kashmir is not Jerusalem. Again you're wasting my time by arguing with me without reading my posts.