YeBeWarned
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2016
- Messages
- 17,194
- Reaction score
- 12
- Country
- Location
No War between China and India my friend, at least not for next 5 years .
Why Indian Military is Preparing for the Last War
- Thread starter Death Professor
- Start date
No War between China and India my friend, at least not for next 5 years .
Flash_Ninja
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 16, 2013
- Messages
- 3,808
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
I dont see it happening, but I think India will attack Pakistan within 10 years. Maybe in that time cpec will be such an important asset that China would have to jump in, who knows?
YeBeWarned
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2016
- Messages
- 17,194
- Reaction score
- 12
- Country
- Location
10 years ? Bro, wait a few months or hardly a year, War is upon us .. India needs a war to distract from the F' up Modi did, if he failed than BJP is done from India Politics .
Ahmet Pasha
BANNED
- Joined
- May 23, 2017
- Messages
- 10,024
- Reaction score
- -5
- Country
- Location
This man sounds so worried and depressed all the damn time.
He is a realist.
Nope...He is right...One thing for sure between India and Pakistan....Even if we fight with each other, there significant political stake in India( which is good) that will ensure that we should not simply attack Pakistan without any solid reason behind it...Take the example of current CAA rules. Do you know, it is the majority Hindus acrorss cities who are standing up against this rule. And they are pretty sure, this bill is basically aimed at curbing any immigration of Muslims from Pakistan and BD? So this shows that we have still people in India and I hope in Pakistan too, who prefer to fight with each other in forum like PDF, cricket, hockey and at UN rather than really killing en mass to each other...
BJP is just taking certain things for a ride. People are frustrated with Kashmir issue...We need some change with our approch that has not been done in 72 years...So they supported BJP move in Kashmir issue....But these bills of CAA and NRC are completely unnecessary things which could have waited for some later point of time...
JohnWick
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2018
- Messages
- 3,085
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
OK mouhtarma.
I fully support CAA and I am a Christian.
JohnWick
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2018
- Messages
- 3,085
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
Ok Injun
Ok Injun
Well I hate to see another Yousuf Youhana episode.
JohnWick
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2018
- Messages
- 3,085
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
Well What happened to him?
For Pakistan's Dalit Christians, embracing Islam is an escape from stigma
World Ajaz Ashraf Jan 14, 2014 12:56:44 IST
The cartographer’s knife slashed the subcontinent into three fragments, but what it failed to surgically remove was caste consciousness from nations not predominantly Hindu. Believe it or not, societal prejudice against dalits was a significant factor behind the decision of former Pakistani cricket star Yousuf Youhana to convert from Christianity to Islam and adopt the name of Mohammad Yousuf.
This is the perception of former diplomat Shaharyar M Khan, who has written on Yousuf’s controversial apostasy in his book, Cricket Cauldron: The Turbulent Politics of Sport in Pakistan. Khan was the chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board between 2003 and 2006.
Mohammed Yousuf. Getty Images
In his book, Khan cites three theories explaining Yousuf’s decision that analysts had propounded when he converted to Islam. One, the message of Islam inspired the cricketer and his teammates, particularly Inzamam-ul-Haq, encouraged him to take the leap. Two, Yousuf believed the conversion could secure him the captain’s cap. Three, Yousuf converted because he wished to overcome the psychologically debilitating stigma of being a dalit.
Yousuf a dalit? Though Christians, his forefathers belonged to the sweeper caste and converted to Christianity in search of dignity and equality, a quest that sometimes failed to liberate them from performing the menial tasks linked to their caste.
Yousuf’s father was a sweeper at a railway station and he was himself an apprentice tailor until, in a twist of fate, he was plucked out of obscurity to play in a local league by a team short of a player. He then burst upon Pakistan cricket, amassing runs as well as wealth. Suddenly rich, Yousuf became a benefactor of his community and gained, as Shaharyar Khan says, “the immense respect of the Catholic Church.”
Despite all this, he was sometimes heckled, as Khan records in his book.
Even today Pakistan’s three million Christians, barring those who are descendants of Goans settled mainly in Karachi, are poor workers employed in menial tasks or on farms owned by Muslim landlords.
Providing a historical perspective, Khan writes, “Many such persons (Christians) adopted Muslim names to escape the daily derision, wore Muslim dress but remained Christians. Others converted to Islam, losing the sympathy and protection of the Christian Church and community without gaining a commensurate advantage with the Muslims.”
So - why do dalit Christians of Pakistan embrace Islam? Khan explains, “Being a member of the Scheduled Caste, even as a Christian, was a heavy cross to bear and converting to Islam was one way of escaping the stigma. Respectability was only possible through conversion.”
In other words, as far as Muslims were concerned, Islam trumped caste on conversion, diminishing harsher aspects such as prohibition on dining and worshipping together. Since the neo-rich Yousuf wasn’t materially dependent on the Church or community, his quest for social respectability inspired him to become Muslim. “My sense is that the third motivation – the caste factor – may have partially influenced Yousuf’s decision,” writes Khan.
Khan asked the cricketer whether he was pressured in any way to convert. “He assured me that his decision had been his free choice. I left it at that,” writes Khan, who, however, took the precaution of assuring the Test cricketer Danish Kaneria, a Hindu, that his religion was not to come in his way of playing for Pakistan. “I told Kaneria that I respected his being a proud member of the Hindu community and that he should continue to feel proud of his association with the Pakistan team.”
Khan stresses on a fundamental difference between Kaneria and Yousuf. “Kaneria is an upper caste Hindu and his only difference from the rest of the team is that he is not a co-religionist. So whereas Youhana was always open to insecurity because of his status as a low-caste Christian convert, Kaneria would not have faced the same social stigma.”
Although it is difficult to say whether Khan’s observations are mere conjectures or deductions, it does seem a personal account from both Yousuf and Kaneria would help immensely to unravel, and understand, the weave of caste and religion in Pakistan’s society, which has been haemorrhaging from Islamic orthodoxy and militancy.
Youhana may not have renounced Christianity had his team not been heavily influenced by Islamic missionary group, Tableeghi Jamaat, by the dashing Pakistani opener Saeed Anwar whose daughter’s death perhaps turned him to the Tableeghi Jamaat. Tableeghi preachers influenced to some degree just about everyone in team except Shoaib Akhtar. They took to praying and listening to sermons together. In this atmosphere, “I feel that Yousuf’s conversion was primarily due to his seeing the light as projected by his Tableeghi colleagues – Saeed Anwar, Inzamam-ul-Haq and Mushtaq Ahmed,” citing it as being one of Tableeghi’s greatest prizes.
While in recent years the Pakistan team has been restrained in exhibiting its Islamic face, this trend hasn’t reversed in the Pakistani society, leading to the harassment of Christians under what are called blasphemy laws. About the blasphemy issue, no less than Pakistan’s minister of National Harmony, Paul Bhatti, himself a Christian, said earlier this month, “It is not just a religious problem. It's a caste factor, because it is a certain group of people who belong to the poorest and most marginalised people. Unfortunately they are Christians and this caste system creates lots of problems.”
We all know that pain and humiliation by any other name does not diminish the suffering of people. Would it be too much to ask Mohammad Yousuf and his Tableeghi mentors to speak out against the indignity heaped on the dalits of Pakistan, whether Christians or Hindus, who too have become victim of Pakistan’s rampant Islamization over the last few years?
The author is a Delhi-based journalist, and can be reached at ashrafajaz3@gmail.com
https://www.firstpost.com/world/for...g-islam-is-an-escape-from-stigma-1338639.html
PAKISTANFOREVER
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2015
- Messages
- 17,371
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
For Pakistan's Dalit Christians, embracing Islam is an escape from stigma
World Ajaz Ashraf Jan 14, 2014 12:56:44 IST
The cartographer’s knife slashed the subcontinent into three fragments, but what it failed to surgically remove was caste consciousness from nations not predominantly Hindu. Believe it or not, societal prejudice against dalits was a significant factor behind the decision of former Pakistani cricket star Yousuf Youhana to convert from Christianity to Islam and adopt the name of Mohammad Yousuf.
This is the perception of former diplomat Shaharyar M Khan, who has written on Yousuf’s controversial apostasy in his book, Cricket Cauldron: The Turbulent Politics of Sport in Pakistan. Khan was the chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board between 2003 and 2006.
Mohammed Yousuf. Getty Images
In his book, Khan cites three theories explaining Yousuf’s decision that analysts had propounded when he converted to Islam. One, the message of Islam inspired the cricketer and his teammates, particularly Inzamam-ul-Haq, encouraged him to take the leap. Two, Yousuf believed the conversion could secure him the captain’s cap. Three, Yousuf converted because he wished to overcome the psychologically debilitating stigma of being a dalit.
Yousuf a dalit? Though Christians, his forefathers belonged to the sweeper caste and converted to Christianity in search of dignity and equality, a quest that sometimes failed to liberate them from performing the menial tasks linked to their caste.
Yousuf’s father was a sweeper at a railway station and he was himself an apprentice tailor until, in a twist of fate, he was plucked out of obscurity to play in a local league by a team short of a player. He then burst upon Pakistan cricket, amassing runs as well as wealth. Suddenly rich, Yousuf became a benefactor of his community and gained, as Shaharyar Khan says, “the immense respect of the Catholic Church.”
Despite all this, he was sometimes heckled, as Khan records in his book.
Even today Pakistan’s three million Christians, barring those who are descendants of Goans settled mainly in Karachi, are poor workers employed in menial tasks or on farms owned by Muslim landlords.
Providing a historical perspective, Khan writes, “Many such persons (Christians) adopted Muslim names to escape the daily derision, wore Muslim dress but remained Christians. Others converted to Islam, losing the sympathy and protection of the Christian Church and community without gaining a commensurate advantage with the Muslims.”
So - why do dalit Christians of Pakistan embrace Islam? Khan explains, “Being a member of the Scheduled Caste, even as a Christian, was a heavy cross to bear and converting to Islam was one way of escaping the stigma. Respectability was only possible through conversion.”
In other words, as far as Muslims were concerned, Islam trumped caste on conversion, diminishing harsher aspects such as prohibition on dining and worshipping together. Since the neo-rich Yousuf wasn’t materially dependent on the Church or community, his quest for social respectability inspired him to become Muslim. “My sense is that the third motivation – the caste factor – may have partially influenced Yousuf’s decision,” writes Khan.
Khan asked the cricketer whether he was pressured in any way to convert. “He assured me that his decision had been his free choice. I left it at that,” writes Khan, who, however, took the precaution of assuring the Test cricketer Danish Kaneria, a Hindu, that his religion was not to come in his way of playing for Pakistan. “I told Kaneria that I respected his being a proud member of the Hindu community and that he should continue to feel proud of his association with the Pakistan team.”
Khan stresses on a fundamental difference between Kaneria and Yousuf. “Kaneria is an upper caste Hindu and his only difference from the rest of the team is that he is not a co-religionist. So whereas Youhana was always open to insecurity because of his status as a low-caste Christian convert, Kaneria would not have faced the same social stigma.”
Although it is difficult to say whether Khan’s observations are mere conjectures or deductions, it does seem a personal account from both Yousuf and Kaneria would help immensely to unravel, and understand, the weave of caste and religion in Pakistan’s society, which has been haemorrhaging from Islamic orthodoxy and militancy.
Youhana may not have renounced Christianity had his team not been heavily influenced by Islamic missionary group, Tableeghi Jamaat, by the dashing Pakistani opener Saeed Anwar whose daughter’s death perhaps turned him to the Tableeghi Jamaat. Tableeghi preachers influenced to some degree just about everyone in team except Shoaib Akhtar. They took to praying and listening to sermons together. In this atmosphere, “I feel that Yousuf’s conversion was primarily due to his seeing the light as projected by his Tableeghi colleagues – Saeed Anwar, Inzamam-ul-Haq and Mushtaq Ahmed,” citing it as being one of Tableeghi’s greatest prizes.
While in recent years the Pakistan team has been restrained in exhibiting its Islamic face, this trend hasn’t reversed in the Pakistani society, leading to the harassment of Christians under what are called blasphemy laws. About the blasphemy issue, no less than Pakistan’s minister of National Harmony, Paul Bhatti, himself a Christian, said earlier this month, “It is not just a religious problem. It's a caste factor, because it is a certain group of people who belong to the poorest and most marginalised people. Unfortunately they are Christians and this caste system creates lots of problems.”
We all know that pain and humiliation by any other name does not diminish the suffering of people. Would it be too much to ask Mohammad Yousuf and his Tableeghi mentors to speak out against the indignity heaped on the dalits of Pakistan, whether Christians or Hindus, who too have become victim of Pakistan’s rampant Islamization over the last few years?
The author is a Delhi-based journalist, and can be reached at ashrafajaz3@gmail.com
https://www.firstpost.com/world/for...g-islam-is-an-escape-from-stigma-1338639.html
FAKE NEWS.........the source is indian:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-india-50749764
Here is the Pakistan source for you.
The fate of crickter Mohammad Yousuf. By Nazir S Bhatti
- 15 Nov 2008
On November 8, 2008, The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) served legal notice to Mohammad Yousuf to repay the 10 million rupees it had spent on him in a court battle with the unofficial Indian Cricket League who rejoined the ICL earlier this week.
Saleem Altaf, Director General says "The PCB hereby bans, forbids and stops you from playing any form of representative cricket (department, association, club) in Pakistan,"
Mohammad Yousuf issued a statement and blamed his fellow Muslim captian of Pakistan Cricket Team and PCB to force him to join ICL and not including him in Canada tour. In response his Muslim brothren in PCB have threatened to file defamation suit in a civil court.
“Pakistan,s Youhana embraces Islam” this news by BBC on september 19, 2005, was heared with sentiments of sorrow by millions of Pakistani Christian who used to pray for Yousuf Yohana in every cricket match of Pakistan. The Christian nation in Pakistan felt proud when Yousuf Youhana always performed sign of Cross on his shest after his half century or century in ground during every match.
Yousuf Youhana took new name of Mohammad Yousuf after conversion to Islam and urged his parents to embrace Islam also but they refused. According to Dailt Times newspaper mother of Yousuf Yohana said "I don't want to give Yousuf my name after what he has done," She also blamed Saeed Anwar and his brother of Pakistan cricket team for "ruining my son's life," There was curse in comments of poor mother of Yousuf Yohana who felt helpless on conversion oh his son for whom she have been praying from years.
Father of Yousuf Yohanna lived in poor slum area of Lahore and supported his family with manual labour. He never wanted Yousuf Yohana to be a labourer and put him to learn tailoring with a local tailor. Yousuf Yohana was very fond of cricket like every Pakistani youth and played street cricket till 1990.
The fate of Yousuf yohana changed when he played crafted shots in local mathes and attracted attention of crickters. Youhana, a born Catholic Christian on August 27, 1974, was selected in Pakistan National Cricket Team in 1998.
The news article published in The Sikh Times in 2005 on conversion of Yousuf Youhana, presented interesting view, as: “Mohammad Ali Jinnah's dream of a secular Pakistan has taken yet another shattering blow in an unlikely arena: cricket. Yousuf Youhana - the only Christian in the current Pakistani cricket team, its mainstay of many years, its veritable Mr. Dependable who has attained fame for his batting prowess - declared last week that he and his wife Tania had embraced Islam and adopted the Muslim names of Muhammad Yousuf and Fatima. For long a symbol for those who claimed Pakistan wasn't biased against non-Muslims. Earlier this year, Younis Khan as vice-captain for the tour of India replaced Youhana. He was sent back from the West Indies, apparently after an ugly altercation with some senior players. Publicly, though, it was claimed Youhana had returned to Pakistan to tend to his ailing father. It was another matter that Papa Youhana wasn't sick enough to be admitted to hospital. Then one fine morning, after his return, Youhana's Mercedes was pelted with stones, at his home in a posh Lahore locality”
Each of Youhana's Muslim teammates warmly welcomed his conversion to Islam and why not, most of them were born-again Muslims. The process of rediscovering Islam started when Saeed Anwar in 2002, then emotionally vulnerable owing to his toddler daughter's death, came under the influence of the Tablighi Jamaat, an Islamic missionary group. He started sporting a beard and found solace in spreading the Word. What better place to start than the Pakistan dressing room. Almost the entire Pakistan team was then recovering from match-fixing allegations. Call it pangs of guilt or a desire to reform, Anwar found a receptive audience in Waqar Younis, Inzamam, Shahid Afridi, Saqlain Mushtaq and Mushtaq Ahmed. The entire milieu around the national team witnessed a dramatic change. From indulging in carnal pleasures, they began to spread the mat in the dressing room for prayers. Interestingly, none of these born-again Muslims, some of whom had a dishonorable mention in Justice Qayyum's Judicial Report on match-fixing, publicly confessed to their dalliance with the bookies, wrote Sikh Times
Younhana's conversion has shocked the Christian community already reeling under jehadi bomb attacks. 'After all, he was a role model for the entire community, perhaps the best-known Christian here. He was an inspiration to those who wanted to strike it big,' said a Christian journalist.
I.A. Rehman, director of the Pakistan Human Rights Commission was concerned about the star batsman's conversion. 'It seems to me that Youhana was finding it difficult to keep his place in the side. Everyone is free to change one's religion but to my mind, there was apparently an element of coercion here,' Rehman told Outlook.
Youhana himself, though, demonstrated the zeal so typical of new converts. Not only had he been pictured praying with team members, he shifted his children to a school supposedly better suited for Islamic education.
Yousuf Youhana's father said on his conversion, “Yousuf has sinned by converting. God will punish him for that.” Have punishment started now?
http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/opinion-details/635
PAKISTANFOREVER
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2015
- Messages
- 17,371
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
Here is the Pakistan source for you.
The fate of crickter Mohammad Yousuf. By Nazir S Bhatti
- 15 Nov 2008
On November 8, 2008, The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) served legal notice to Mohammad Yousuf to repay the 10 million rupees it had spent on him in a court battle with the unofficial Indian Cricket League who rejoined the ICL earlier this week.
Saleem Altaf, Director General says "The PCB hereby bans, forbids and stops you from playing any form of representative cricket (department, association, club) in Pakistan,"
Mohammad Yousuf issued a statement and blamed his fellow Muslim captian of Pakistan Cricket Team and PCB to force him to join ICL and not including him in Canada tour. In response his Muslim brothren in PCB have threatened to file defamation suit in a civil court.
“Pakistan,s Youhana embraces Islam” this news by BBC on september 19, 2005, was heared with sentiments of sorrow by millions of Pakistani Christian who used to pray for Yousuf Yohana in every cricket match of Pakistan. The Christian nation in Pakistan felt proud when Yousuf Youhana always performed sign of Cross on his shest after his half century or century in ground during every match.
Yousuf Youhana took new name of Mohammad Yousuf after conversion to Islam and urged his parents to embrace Islam also but they refused. According to Dailt Times newspaper mother of Yousuf Yohana said "I don't want to give Yousuf my name after what he has done," She also blamed Saeed Anwar and his brother of Pakistan cricket team for "ruining my son's life," There was curse in comments of poor mother of Yousuf Yohana who felt helpless on conversion oh his son for whom she have been praying from years.
Father of Yousuf Yohanna lived in poor slum area of Lahore and supported his family with manual labour. He never wanted Yousuf Yohana to be a labourer and put him to learn tailoring with a local tailor. Yousuf Yohana was very fond of cricket like every Pakistani youth and played street cricket till 1990.
The fate of Yousuf yohana changed when he played crafted shots in local mathes and attracted attention of crickters. Youhana, a born Catholic Christian on August 27, 1974, was selected in Pakistan National Cricket Team in 1998.
The news article published in The Sikh Times in 2005 on conversion of Yousuf Youhana, presented interesting view, as: “Mohammad Ali Jinnah's dream of a secular Pakistan has taken yet another shattering blow in an unlikely arena: cricket. Yousuf Youhana - the only Christian in the current Pakistani cricket team, its mainstay of many years, its veritable Mr. Dependable who has attained fame for his batting prowess - declared last week that he and his wife Tania had embraced Islam and adopted the Muslim names of Muhammad Yousuf and Fatima. For long a symbol for those who claimed Pakistan wasn't biased against non-Muslims. Earlier this year, Younis Khan as vice-captain for the tour of India replaced Youhana. He was sent back from the West Indies, apparently after an ugly altercation with some senior players. Publicly, though, it was claimed Youhana had returned to Pakistan to tend to his ailing father. It was another matter that Papa Youhana wasn't sick enough to be admitted to hospital. Then one fine morning, after his return, Youhana's Mercedes was pelted with stones, at his home in a posh Lahore locality”
Each of Youhana's Muslim teammates warmly welcomed his conversion to Islam and why not, most of them were born-again Muslims. The process of rediscovering Islam started when Saeed Anwar in 2002, then emotionally vulnerable owing to his toddler daughter's death, came under the influence of the Tablighi Jamaat, an Islamic missionary group. He started sporting a beard and found solace in spreading the Word. What better place to start than the Pakistan dressing room. Almost the entire Pakistan team was then recovering from match-fixing allegations. Call it pangs of guilt or a desire to reform, Anwar found a receptive audience in Waqar Younis, Inzamam, Shahid Afridi, Saqlain Mushtaq and Mushtaq Ahmed. The entire milieu around the national team witnessed a dramatic change. From indulging in carnal pleasures, they began to spread the mat in the dressing room for prayers. Interestingly, none of these born-again Muslims, some of whom had a dishonorable mention in Justice Qayyum's Judicial Report on match-fixing, publicly confessed to their dalliance with the bookies, wrote Sikh Times
Younhana's conversion has shocked the Christian community already reeling under jehadi bomb attacks. 'After all, he was a role model for the entire community, perhaps the best-known Christian here. He was an inspiration to those who wanted to strike it big,' said a Christian journalist.
I.A. Rehman, director of the Pakistan Human Rights Commission was concerned about the star batsman's conversion. 'It seems to me that Youhana was finding it difficult to keep his place in the side. Everyone is free to change one's religion but to my mind, there was apparently an element of coercion here,' Rehman told Outlook.
Youhana himself, though, demonstrated the zeal so typical of new converts. Not only had he been pictured praying with team members, he shifted his children to a school supposedly better suited for Islamic education.
Yousuf Youhana's father said on his conversion, “Yousuf has sinned by converting. God will punish him for that.” Have punishment started now?
http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/opinion-details/635
The above is an opinion piece, not factual.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
Imran Khan vs Pakistan: Protest of Treachery - Casualty Report- Latest: Pakistan Space Agency
-
-
-
Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts
-
Imran Khan vs Pakistan: Protest of Treachery - Casualty Report
- Latest: Pakistan Space Agency
-
-
-
-
Bajwa calls Bushra's allegations against Saudi Arabia 'baseless'
- Latest: Novus ordu seclorum
