Why India no longer cares about Pakistan's nuclear threats

[Cookie Monster]

That doesn't qualify you to speak for anything to do with nuclear weapons.
All you have is hearsay from people who have nothing to do with nukes.

Sorry, but you are way too mired in propaganda than actual facts.

Again u have failed to comprehend but I know by now that ur mental capacity is limited and I have to break it down for u.

I'm not making these claims bcuz I'm super qualified in this field...I'm countering ur bogus claims with actual research papers. There's a consensus among all scientists about the effects of nuclear weapons. U r the only one who is making tall claims without providing a single research paper backing ur arguments. Moreover u have dismissed the actual studies/research papers saying that these scientists are anti-nuke lobbyists ...it takes a special kind of "genius" to deny corroborated/well tested/established scientific facts. Lol calling actual science "hearsay" and propaganda...I feel sorry for u.

I would recommend looking up all the past tests conducted to date.



So a few kilograms of radioactive elements from a bomb that spreads out over a massive, massive area (most of it into the upper atmosphere) will bring an end to civilization?

It's clear you know nothing about nuclear weapons.

You need tens of thousands of nukes exploding all over the world for what you stated to happen. You don't know anything about nuclear fallout.

Amazing how u reached the conclusion that u know everything and anyone else who says otherwise(even if they r an expert and have dedicated their time and resources investigating something) has some hidden agenda. U r like one of those global warming denying idiots who absolutely ignore cold hard science bcuz it was snowing in their backyard
So u r saying that all these studies are wrong...the computer models are wrong...and a PDF troll with no qualification whatsoever is right?

I agree. Next time I would like to argue my case against someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

Yes...plz go find some other dumb ppl to talk over ur conspiracy theories and baseless/absurd claims. Good riddance

 

[randomradio]

Again u have failed to comprehend but I know by now that ur mental capacity is limited and I have to break it down for u.

I'm not making these claims bcuz I'm super qualified in this field...I'm countering ur bogus claims with actual research papers. There's a consensus among all scientists about the effects of nuclear weapons. U r the only one who is making tall claims without providing a single research paper backing ur arguments. Moreover u have dismissed the actual studies/research papers saying that these scientists are anti-nuke lobbyists ...it takes a special kind of "genius" to deny corroborated/well tested/established scientific facts. Lol calling actual science "hearsay" and propaganda...I feel sorry for u.


Amazing how u reached the conclusion that u know everything and anyone else who says otherwise(even if they r an expert and have dedicated their time and resources investigating something) has some hidden agenda. U r like one of those global warming denying idiots who absolutely ignore cold hard science bcuz it was snowing in their backyard
So u r saying that all these studies are wrong...the computer models are wrong...and a PDF troll with no qualification whatsoever is right?



Yes...plz go find some other dumb ppl to talk over ur conspiracy theories and baseless/absurd claims. Good riddance

What a joke. So a few hundred kilos of uranium or plutonium can destroy the entire planet's ecosystem.

What kind of a chemist are you?

Cold hard science cannot defeat PDF logic.

 

[Cookie Monster]

What a joke. So a few hundred kilos of uranium or plutonium can destroy the entire planet's ecosystem.

What kind of a chemist are you?

Cold hard science cannot defeat PDF logic.

Still no sources from u. Keep on ranting without proof...u look more and more like an idiot...but I assume u r used to it...it must be a norm

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Modi,s way of dealing with both Pakistan & China has been seen in last 12 months

Surgical strikes Massive artillery firing on LOC v Pakistan.

dokhlam stand off with China

there is no shirking from india

surgical strike"s"? I thought that was only one. Did they managed to get master mind of Musharraf the camel spy and pigeons and moneys who have been creating terror in bharat.

 

[randomradio]

Still no sources from u. Keep on ranting without proof...u look more and more like an idiot...but I assume u r used to it...it must be a norm

The US used to release 1 million tonnes of lead every year into their cities by using leaded fuel. The Americans have deposited 500,000 tonnes of depleted uranium in Iraq since 2003.

But no!!! The great chemist thinks releasing a few hundred kilograms of plutonium into the atmosphere over India will destroy the world.

Dude, I can't teach anybody common sense. You can only have the fortune to be born with one.

 

[Mav3rick]

There is a massive conventional disparity. For example, India operates the T-90s, whereas most of Pakistan's tanks are the Type 59, a class of tank that we don't even use anymore.

The T-59's which are in use as backup systems or 2nd line of defense have been heavily upgraded and cannot really be considered the T-59's. However, when you consider a tank battle, you will have to consider a sea of anti-Tank mines and anti-Tank hand held systems in use with Pakistan Military. It will not be a Tank on Tank battle. Basically, in defensive position, Pakistan is well poised to effectively blunt any Indian misadventure..........this is the reason that your military and government talk a lot but do not back that talk with any action.

And the above is just Military consequence of attacking Pakistan........even if India wins the war, the result would also bear a heavy penalty on Indian Military, the result would also be a heavily weakened Indian military.......open to China's abuse at will. And what to say of financial consequences and international trade etc.

india doent care because india knows that Pakistan will self destruct soon because of its own internal struggle.

mohajirs are not happy about their persecution, balochs are not, now even pashtuns speaking out against their atrocities, gilgit baltistan was never even taken on board and always considered it a disputed area, gilgitis are als very unhappy about not considering their opinions before giving green light to CPEC project.

The point in your post is highly debatable. But I can guarantee you that there is 1 word which can magically unite the entire Pakistan, make them forget all internal rifts and call for blood......the word is 'India'!

 

[Cookie Monster]

The US used to release 1 million tonnes of lead every year into their cities by using leaded fuel. The Americans have deposited 500,000 tonnes of depleted uranium in Iraq since 2003.

But no!!! The great chemist thinks releasing a few hundred kilograms of plutonium into the atmosphere over India will destroy the world.

Dude, I can't teach anybody common sense. You can only have the fortune to be born with one.

Still just mere words coming out of ur mouth with no hard evidence to back it up.

As for u comparing lead and depleted Uranium with fissile material of nuclear bombs like Uranium and Plutonium shows ur utter lack of knowledge. Go study radioactivity and while u r at it also compare and contrast the effects of lead and DU on human health and the environment vs highly radioactive plutonium and uranium exploded over cities with the purpose of causing destruction.

Idk why I'm even bothering trying to teach u anything. I bet u r just gonna come back with something more absurd and think urself smart while again providing no proof whatsoever.

 

[randomradio]

The T-59's which are in use as backup systems or 2nd line of defense have been heavily upgraded and cannot really be considered the T-59's. However, when you consider a tank battle, you will have to consider a sea of anti-Tank mines and anti-Tank hand held systems in use with Pakistan Military. It will not be a Tank on Tank battle. Basically, in defensive position, Pakistan is well poised to effectively blunt any Indian misadventure..........this is the reason that your military and government talk a lot but do not back that talk with any action.

I have to respectfully disagree. It doesn't matter how much you upgrade the Type 59s, it's nowhere near to even the regular T-72s.

As for the LAT/HAT teams, they are easily countered in open fields. IA will not be fighting in cities after all.

There is also the extremely high possibility of India having achieved complete air superiority even before the main strike corps move into Pakistan.

And the above is just Military consequence of attacking Pakistan........even if India wins the war, the result would also bear a heavy penalty on Indian Military, the result would also be a heavily weakened Indian military.......open to China's abuse at will. And what to say of financial consequences and international trade etc.

This part about open to China's abuse won't happen. India's main industrial complexes are being moved outside the major cities. They are too small to be nuked and too big to be ignored. The same idea with developing the services sector in smaller towns and cities.

In military terms, the army is splitting itself into an internal quasi-theater command setup. So assets deployed against China will not interfere with the ones deployed against Pakistan. If it comes down to war with China, it will be like India has two different armies.

But what's worse for China is the threat of India using nukes on China increases drastically. Since India's already nuked, the first strike threshold has reduced drastically against other countries, so the Chinese will try and maintain cordial relations with India.

As for the West, India is still necessary to counter China, so India will see massive investments from the US, Europe and Japan for reconstruction. And as the only country that came out on top after a nuclear war, the importance of India as a military power will rise dramatically even if the GDP or even the population is cut down by half.

 

[randomradio]

Still just mere words coming out of ur mouth with no hard evidence to back it up.

As for u comparing lead and depleted Uranium with fissile material of nuclear bombs like Uranium and Plutonium shows ur utter lack of knowledge. Go study radioactivity and while u r at it also compare and contrast the effects of lead and DU on human health and the environment vs highly radioactive plutonium and uranium exploded over cities with the purpose of causing destruction.

Idk why I'm even bothering trying to teach u anything. I bet u r just gonna come back with something more absurd and think urself smart while again providing no proof whatsoever.

 

[Mav3rick]

I have to respectfully disagree. It doesn't matter how much you upgrade the Type 59s, it's nowhere near to even the regular T-72s.

As for the LAT/HAT teams, they are easily countered in open fields. IA will not be fighting in cities after all.

There is also the extremely high possibility of India having achieved complete air superiority even before the main strike corps move into Pakistan.

As I said, upgraded T-59's are not front line Tanks and yet when push comes to shove, the same tanks will hold their own against advancing Indian tanks. Furthermore, we have various versions of Al-Khalid for front line defense.

I am not familiar with LAT/HAT acronyms but I assume they are meant for Light Anti-Tank/Heavy Anti-Tank teams? I can assure you that they are not that easily countered. Even in open fields, there are ample locations for camouflage and tactical placements can give these teams an advantage that advancing Tank columns seldom have. In addition, their shoot and scoot ability is an added bonus.

And now, what you have quite conveniently assumed total air superiority of IAF over PAF, while ignoring the fact that Pakistan also fields a potent Air Force which has always achieved Air Superiority over all adversaries. Despite the fact, even without the services of PAF, Pakistan can eventually take out all Indian Airforce Bases thus rendering IAF useless.

All in all, had it been such a piece of cake, India would have conducted some sort of operation by now instead of tall claims and fake surgical strikes .......

This part about open to China's abuse won't happen. India's main industrial complexes are being moved outside the major cities. They are too small to be nuked and too big to be ignored. The same idea with developing the services sector in smaller towns and cities.

In military terms, the army is splitting itself into an internal quasi-theater command setup. So assets deployed against China will not interfere with the ones deployed against Pakistan. If it comes down to war with China, it will be like India has two different armies.

But what's worse for China is the threat of India using nukes on China increases drastically. Since India's already nuked, the first strike threshold has reduced drastically against other countries, so the Chinese will try and maintain cordial relations with India.

As for the West, India is still necessary to counter China, so India will see massive investments from the US, Europe and Japan for reconstruction. And as the only country that came out on top after a nuclear war, the importance of India as a military power will rise dramatically even if the GDP or even the population is cut down by half.

So I was taking you seriously before I read the part about Military assets deployed against China not being fielded in an actual full fledged war against Pakistan. While Indian Military will definitely have to field some force at her border with China, history is proof that 80% - 90% of the Indian Military is Pakistan centric and is fielded against Pakistan in any conflict. The latest example is from 2001/02 when India amassed almost a million soldiers are our border, and that was when we weren't actually at war.

Where I am coming from, Pakistan has not Nuked India, Pakistan has merely fought a full spectrum war with India in which Indian Military is considerable weakened in terms of resources. This weaker Indian Military with hundreds of Fighters Jets and Sea Vehicles lost along with hundreds of Tanks and Armour etc. would be a push-over for Bangladesh let alone China. Don't you think that eventuality would always be in the minds of Indian Strategic Planners? Infact, in such a weakened state, with weakened economy and weak state of Government, don't you think that internal dissent would be at an all time high and separatist forces too strong to counter and contain? In reality, a full fledged war with Pakistan would be disastrous for India.

 

[randomradio]

As I said, upgraded T-59's are not front line Tanks and yet when push comes to shove, the same tanks will hold their own against advancing Indian tanks. Furthermore, we have various versions of Al-Khalid for front line defense.

Out of the 2000+ tanks in PA's inventory, more than half are the Type 59s.

I am not familiar with LAT/HAT acronyms but I assume they are meant for Light Anti-Tank/Heavy Anti-Tank teams? I can assure you that they are not that easily countered. Even in open fields, there are ample locations for camouflage and tactical placements can give these teams an advantage that advancing Tank columns seldom have. In addition, their shoot and scoot ability is an added bonus.

The targets will be too far for the missiles to be effective.

And now, what you have quite conveniently assumed total air superiority of IAF over PAF, while ignoring the fact that Pakistan also fields a potent Air Force which has always achieved Air Superiority over all adversaries. Despite the fact, even without the services of PAF, Pakistan can eventually take out all Indian Airforce Bases thus rendering IAF useless.

I'm afraid that if you really get down to it, the PAF is no longer a match for the IAF.

All in all, had it been such a piece of cake, India would have conducted some sort of operation by now instead of tall claims and fake surgical strikes .......

What if the surgical strikes were real?

So I was taking you seriously before I read the part about Military assets deployed against China not being fielded in an actual full fledged war against Pakistan. While Indian Military will definitely have to field some force at her border with China, history is proof that 80% - 90% of the Indian Military is Pakistan centric and is fielded against Pakistan in any conflict. The latest example is from 2001/02 when India amassed almost a million soldiers are our border, and that was when we weren't actually at war.

If you have actually looked up the IA's formations, you wouldn't be saying this in the first place. Never mind the fact that the IA has actually officially confirmed what I said, anybody who looks at our orbat will come to the same conclusion.

By claiming 80-90% of the IA's military is PA centric, you have proved that you haven't bothered to check IA's orbat. I would recommend looking it up.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

The whole tactical Nuke thingy is based on one fact.. India will move India Army into some god forsaken desert inside Pakistan... and blowing up couple of nuclear bombs will be of no consequence to Pakistan... But Pakistanis fail to realize that some of Pakistan's most populated cities are at stone stone distance off Indian border... so what are Pakistanis going to do the moment Indian Soldiers are able to enter those densely populated areas.... are Pakistanis going to blow up their own cities... Nuke a few million Pakistanis... that,s where Indian Army generals know that Pakistanis are stuck....this whole tactical nukes is a waste of resources for Pakistanis. On the contrary it raises the risk of Pakistani terrorists getting hold of these nukes as they need to be deployed in the field all the time n order to retaliate to a ingress by India....I love the way Pakistanis are wasting resources.... LOL

 

[Mav3rick]

Out of the 2000+ tanks in PA's inventory, more than half are the Type 59s.

The actual number of front line Tanks such as Al-Khalid and its newer versions is classified. But more importantly, keep in mind that Indian Military will be on the offensive and Pakistani Military on the defensive. This will give an advantage to Pakistani Military.

The targets will be too far for the missiles to be effective.

Why would you assume that?? In a single line you have written off our entire Missile effort. I was talking about SRBMs and IRBMs.

I'm afraid that if you really get down to it, the PAF is no longer a match for the IAF.

That is again an assumption. While IAF has evaluated fighters in PAF inventory, PAF too has thoroughly evaluated fighters in IAF inventory and is confident of holding its own against IAF in case of a full spectrum non-Nuclear war.

What if the surgical strikes were real?

There there would have been proof.

If you have actually looked up the IA's formations, you wouldn't be saying this in the first place. Never mind the fact that the IA has actually officially confirmed what I said, anybody who looks at our orbat will come to the same conclusion.

By claiming 80-90% of the IA's military is PA centric, you have proved that you haven't bothered to check IA's orbat. I would recommend looking it up.

Look, saying something on a piece of paper is different from ground reality. In all honesty, the only real threat that India has of war being imposed on her is from Pakistan and no other country in the world. And so, correctly, 80-90% of Indian force is Pakistan centric.

 

[randomradio]

The actual number of front line Tanks such as Al-Khalid and its newer versions is classified. But more importantly, keep in mind that Indian Military will be on the offensive and Pakistani Military on the defensive. This will give an advantage to Pakistani Military.

No, it's not. It's imported from China, so all the numbers are publicly available.

Why would you assume that?? In a single line you have written off our entire Missile effort. I was talking about SRBMs and IRBMs.

I thought you were referring to LAT/HAT. Dunno how SRBMs and IRBMs come into the picture, please explain.

That is again an assumption. While IAF has evaluated fighters in PAF inventory, PAF too has thoroughly evaluated fighters in IAF inventory and is confident of holding its own against IAF in case of a full spectrum non-Nuclear war.

The qualitative difference between IAF and PAF is way too much now.

The JF-17s are said to be as much as 80% as capable as the F-16 B52. And the IAF is well past seeing even the F-16 as a threat anymore. Not to mention, we are planning to buy a more advanced F-16 (which the IAF is actually not interested in, Gripen is what they want) as a tier 2 aircraft. That's an aircraft that will become useful after IAF secures air superiority. The difference is that big.

PAF should have already been operating a significantly more advanced aircraft than the F-16 today, like the Typhoon or Rafale, to even counter the current IAF inventory. Meaning, PAF should have bought either aircraft in sufficient numbers back in 2005 or so. Now it's too late.

There there would have been proof.

No, my question to you is what if the surgical strikes are real and PA has been lying to you.

You said "India would have conducted some sort of operation by now". So what will be your impression if tomorrow the PA publicly accepts that the surgical strikes did happen?

Look, saying something on a piece of paper is different from ground reality. In all honesty, the only real threat that India has of war being imposed on her is from Pakistan and no other country in the world. And so, correctly, 80-90% of Indian force is Pakistan centric.

Nope. The reality is you have been fed incorrect information through your media.

IA has 14 army corps today. Out of which 8 are facing Pakistan and 6 are facing China. 4 of the corps facing China are all the way in the North East, so how can they be facing Pakistan?

There will be another strike corps coming up which will be placed in North India facing China. So out of the total expected, 15 corps, 8 will be designed to fight Pakistan and the other 7 against China.

So how's that 80-90%?

 

[Mav3rick]

No, it's not. It's imported from China, so all the numbers are publicly available.

I don't understand where you are producing random stats from. Most, if not all, Al-Khalids in service are produced locally at HIT. The numbers that you quoted, from Wiki, are just random numbers since the actual count is classified. And that is just Al-Khalids, then there are T-80's and T-85's and the Al-Zarrar (extensively upgraded T-59 which can compete with any modern Tank of its class) etc. They just have to face Indian T-90s and T72s.....no big deal really.

I thought you were referring to LAT/HAT. Dunno how SRBMs and IRBMs come into the picture, please explain.

SRBM and IRBM statement was a part of my explanation in which IAF can never achieve air superiority.

The qualitative difference between IAF and PAF is way too much now.

The JF-17s are said to be as much as 80% as capable as the F-16 B52. And the IAF is well past seeing even the F-16 as a threat anymore. Not to mention, we are planning to buy a more advanced F-16 (which the IAF is actually not interested in, Gripen is what they want) as a tier 2 aircraft. That's an aircraft that will become useful after IAF secures air superiority. The difference is that big.

PAF should have already been operating a significantly more advanced aircraft than the F-16 today, like the Typhoon or Rafale, to even counter the current IAF inventory. Meaning, PAF should have bought either aircraft in sufficient numbers back in 2005 or so. Now it's too late.

The difference b/w PAF and IAF is quite big now. But on our turf, IAF will be facing force multipliers in the form of AWACS, SAM sites, Ground based Electronic Warfare etc. which would all be supporting PAF.

The JF-17 is continuously being upgraded, the latest variant may just as well be on par with F-16 Block 52+. And F-16 Block 52+ is the most serious threat that IAF can encounter in the near future. I can assure you that IAF is not getting a more advanced F-16, although they can if they want. In addition to all that, PAF will most likely be fielding a 5th Gen stealth fighter by the time IAF starts operating Rafale.

No, my question to you is what if the surgical strikes are real and PA has been lying to you.

You said "India would have conducted some sort of operation by now". So what will be your impression if tomorrow the PA publicly accepts that the surgical strikes did happen?

As for the surgical strikes story, IA would have provided irrefutable evidence to their own media which they did not despite being challenged by PA and the world at large. So, until IA is able to prove its claim, it is a lie.

By my post, I meant that India would have conducted some sort of operation to teach Pakistan a lesson.....most likely by crossing LoC and re-taking Azad Kashmir.......if it was confident of its success.

Nope. The reality is you have been fed incorrect information through your media.

IA has 14 army corps today. Out of which 8 are facing Pakistan and 6 are facing China. 4 of the corps facing China are all the way in the North East, so how can they be facing Pakistan?

There will be another strike corps coming up which will be placed in North India facing China. So out of the total expected, 15 corps, 8 will be designed to fight Pakistan and the other 7 against China.

So how's that 80-90%?

Can you provide link to that? I have read neutral sources which claim that India has posted anywhere from 600k to 1 million soldiers in occupied Kashmir alone which would mean 80-90% of the Military is already posted at LoC/IB with Pakistan.