Why going ' MAD ' won't work for India ?

[SQ8]

and by asserting so I am no way advocating nuclear war with Pakistan.

all I am saying Pakistan has much at stake in such war ...as it can never win such war it is likely lose its existence .

all the more reasons why Pakistan should desist from using nuclear weapons against India .

And your failure to understand that a Pakistani "victory" is not based on its survival but rather denying India a "victory" in terms of the aftermath of a conflict. As @Dillinger puts it, a pyrrhic victory

 

[Indo-guy]

I find it rather intellecturaly dishonest that you basing your assumption on Pakistani evaluation on the rather vague interview of AM Asghar Khan who(regardless of his esteem and reputation) has been disconnected from Defence matter in terms of detailed knowledge since he left the Air Force and joined politics. His evaluation is based on his remaining contacts with the PAF. Not with the SPD.

It's your opinion . and you are entitled to it just as I am entitled to mine .

when somebody as senior as reputable as Mr Asghar Khan makes that statement ....there must be reasons behind it ?

Don't you think so ???

 

[SQ8]

when Ex Air Chief Marshal of Pakistan says that Pakistan will be wiped out in nuclear war but India will survive ?

what must be reasons behind such statement ???

He is correct. Portion of India will survive. It will be mathematically impossible to wipe out a billion people when one looks at the population distribution of India versus that of Pakistan. Urban India may be lost forever, but a lot of rural India will survive.

It's your opinion . and you are entitled to it just as I am entitled to mine .

when somebody as senior as reputable as Mr Asghar Khan makes that statement ....there must be reasons behind it ?

Don't you think so ???

Yes, his evaluation would be based on his knowledge. And to most extents, I have showed you how I agree with his assessment.
You must watch "the Day after" to get an Idea what I am referring to as a pyrrhic victory.

 

[Indo-guy]

He is correct. Portion of India will survive. It will be mathematically impossible to wipe out a billion people when one looks at the population distribution of India versus that of Pakistan. Urban India may be lost forever, but a lot of rural India will survive.

Yes, his evaluation would be based on his knowledge. And to most extents, I have showed you how I agree with his assessment.
You must watch "the Day after" to get an Idea what I am referring to as a pyrrhic victory.

as per @Dillinger surviving nuclear war is a victory in itself .

and thanks for again clarifying that portion of India will survive .

and the fact that India is too big to be destroyed by Pakistan that's all I am trying to say ..only difference lies that India will be able to rebuild itself but there will be nothing left of Pakistan ...

and hence why Pakistan has every reason to avoid nuclear war with India .

 

[SQ8]

Here, have a read .. it is well researched and not by a subcontinent author lest there be more than the usual undertones of nationalism involved in judging its content.

 

[Indo-guy]

Here, have a read .. it is well researched and not by a subcontinent author lest there be more than the usual undertones of nationalism involved in judging its content.

I have read that already ...

 

[Dillinger]

as per @Dillinger surviving nuclear war is a victory in itself .

and thanks for again clarifying that portion of India will survive .

and the fact that India is too big to be destroyed by Pakistan that's all I am trying to say ..only difference lies that India will be able to rebuild itself but there will be nothing left of Pakistan ...

and hence why Pakistan has every reason to avoid nuclear war with India .

Everyone here has said that a portion of India will survive.

Hell, my very first post on page 9 I clearly stated that more Indians will survive than Pakistanis, BUT THAT IS NOT VICTORY.

ONLY IF THE INDIAN STATE SURVIVES CAN WE CALL IT A VICTORY, UNFORTUNATELY THE INDIAN STATE ITSELF WILL NOT SURVIVE.

How is it remotely possible that you cannot catch the above, rather clear, nuance.

 

[SQ8]

as per @Dillinger surviving nuclear war is a victory in itself .

and thanks for again clarifying that portion of India will survive .

and the fact that India is too big to be destroyed by Pakistan that's all I am trying to say ..only difference lies that India will be able to rebuild itself but there will be nothing left of Pakistan ...

and hence why Pakistan has every reason to avoid nuclear war with India .

That nobody disagrees with, but the same goes for India. Your idea that India will be able to rebuild itself is what I question. YES. there will be concerted efforts to rebuild India, but it will not at all be a "rebuild" but rather a hodgepodge of whatever is left of India trying to return to a semblance of a state. There will be no major economic Indian power in 5, 10 years.. you are looking at 30-50 years of nothing but misery for the Indian survivors save the most well fed of the government lot and those with money.

Did Chernobyl rebuild??

Everyone here has said that a portion of India will survive.

Hell, my very first post on page 9 I clearly stated that more Indians will survive than Pakistanis, BUT THAT IS NOT VICTORY.

ONLY IF THE INDIAN STATE SURVIVES CAN WE CALL IT A VICTORY, UNFORTUNATELY THE INDIAN STATE ITSELF WILL NOT SURVIVE.

How is it remotely possible that you cannot catch the above, rather clear, nuance.

Odd that somehow that is just not something that is being read.
Its just a repeat of "Pakistan will die, India will live" in rephrased paragraphs.

 

[RAMPAGE]

the outcome of this simulated assessment was that India will survive nuclear war although with huge cost ...it's economy having been driven atleast by a decade .

You talk about GOI's assessments but you think that our SPD is asleep yes ???

Our nuclear arsenal is growing much faster than India's. If you guys are betting on your underdevelopment ABMs than I must say that you're in for a big surprise. those things are unproven, experimental as of now.

Why do you think that we have not tested anything new for quite a while now ??? Shaheen 3 and every other delivery system is being developed keeping in mind your countermeasures. and the short range ones are being deployed in big numbers and will be used to overwhelm the ABM systems.

If you're betting on your sheer size than I don't think that you understand the definition of MAD and Pakistan's Nuclear doctrine.

We will not be just targeting your population and Military. The dams and water supplies will also be targeted.

 

[Indo-guy]

Here, have a read .. it is well researched and not by a subcontinent author lest there be more than the usual undertones of nationalism involved in judging its content.

Taylor Barnche's book " The Clinton Tapes: Wrestling History with the President " throws light on top secret Indian government assessment about the worst case scenario of Indo-Pak nuclear conflict after which Indian government came to conclusion that India can survive nuclear war with Pakistan .

Indian Government accordingly molded its Nuclear war strategy after this assessment .

 

[Dillinger]

That nobody disagrees with, but the same goes for India. Your idea that India will be able to rebuild itself is what I question. YES. there will be concerted efforts to rebuild India, but it will not at all be a "rebuild" but rather a hodgepodge of whatever is left of India trying to return to a semblance of a state. There will be no major economic Indian power in 5, 10 years.. you are looking at 30-50 years of nothing but misery for the Indian survivors save the most well fed of the government lot and those with money.

Did Chernobyl rebuild??



Odd that somehow that is just not something that is being read.
Its just a repeat of "Pakistan will die, India will live" in rephrased paragraphs.

That's because the survival of a portion of the Indian populace is being conflated with the survival of the Indian state itself. Which is where his confusion lies and thus he sees a contradiction in stating that the survival of certain segment of the populace is not victory but if the state were to survive then it is indeed a victory.

 

[Indo-guy]

Everyone here has said that a portion of India will survive.

Hell, my very first post on page 9 I clearly stated that more Indians will survive than Pakistanis, BUT THAT IS NOT VICTORY.

ONLY IF THE INDIAN STATE SURVIVES CAN WE CALL IT A VICTORY, UNFORTUNATELY THE INDIAN STATE ITSELF WILL NOT SURVIVE.

How is it remotely possible that you cannot catch the above, rather clear, nuance.

That's what you feel .
Government of India feels otherwise !!!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Everyone here has said that a portion of India will survive.

Hell, my very first post on page 9 I clearly stated that more Indians will survive than Pakistanis, BUT THAT IS NOT VICTORY.

ONLY IF THE INDIAN STATE SURVIVES CAN WE CALL IT A VICTORY, UNFORTUNATELY THE INDIAN STATE ITSELF WILL NOT SURVIVE.

How is it remotely possible that you cannot catch the above, rather clear, nuance.

All this hollow talk of "Victory" is just that------------hollow and 'bakwaas', the most correct description.
The fact of the matter is simply this: whoever presses the 'red button' first has already lost...............................after that you can go and look for "Victors" on Pluto.

 

[Dillinger]

You talk about GOI's assessments but you think that our SPD is asleep yes ???

Our nuclear arsenal is growing much faster than India's. If you guys are betting on your underdevelopment ABMs than I must say that you're in for a big surprise. those things are unproven, experimental as of now.

Why do you think that we have not tested anything new for quite a while now ??? Shaheen 3 and every other delivery system is being developed keeping in mind your countermeasures. and the short range ones are being deployed in big numbers and will be used to overwhelm the ABM systems.

If you're betting on your sheer size than I don't think that you understand the definition of MAD and Pakistan's Nuclear doctrine.

We will not be just targeting your population and Military. The dams and water supplies will also be targeted.

Careful with the assessment of the arsenal's size, it is based on the tonnage of the enriched material stockpile, the same figures for India as back as 99 under the IAEA study stood at an unsafeguarded stockpile large enough for over 500 warheads.

That's what you feel .
Government of India feels otherwise !!!

The GOI doesn't feel that way, projecting a worst case scenario and stating that we have won are not the same.

All this hollow talk of "Victory" is just that------------hollow and 'bakwaas', the most correct description.
The fact of the matter is simply this: whoever presses the 'red button' first has already lost...............................after that you can go and look for "Victors" on Pluto.

I'd like to think that most of the nukes headed our way would be primed for air-bursts, key word being "like", good chance that most will be primed for surface detonations for maximum fallout, a 20KT warhead could render most of Delhi/NCR/Haryana uninhabitable if primed for surface detonation.

 

[RAMPAGE]

and by asserting so I am no way advocating nuclear war with Pakistan.

all I am saying Pakistan has much at stake in such war ...as it can never win such war it is likely lose its existence .

all the more reasons why Pakistan should desist from using nuclear weapons against India .

Dude I don't think that you understand what MAD is.

Nobody is supposed to WIN. Nobody is supposed to survive.

Pardon me if i don't take the word of a retired Official who retired even before our Nuclear program begun.

Thankyou.