Why Gen RS turned down KSA offer....Pakistan: A Conditional Saudi Ally

[Kaniska]

Now lets move towards Houthis. First lets bring in Syria a bit. There were Chinese instructors that were in Syria, who were training Syrian Army and Militias. Do you agree on this thing as well?

I am sorry mate..I am not much familliar with Chines engagement...But still i agree with you as i do not know much about it.

 

[Rank]

Majority of my relatives and close family living in Arab countries specially Kuwait and Saudia. The day Khawaja Asif revealed this, entire Arab media reported the same and on the same day before khotba my father and cousins told me Imaam of different Mosques in Kuwait and Saudia chant Pakistan and Pakistan military zindabad in different parts of arab countries before Friday Khootba... this news whether real or fake but Pakistan military has strong support across Arab countries and after all perception in Middleast is very strong regarding Pakistan has most powerful military loaded with Nuclear weapons among all Islamic states

 

[SQ8]

By mid to late 21st century, relations between Pakistan and KSA are likely going to become colder. Pakistan's economy is quickly growing, as is its population, which will likely lead to Pakistan asserting itself far more deeply, in the Muslim world. This will no doubt lead to Pakistan and KSA butting heads, as both compete to lead the Sunni Muslim world.

Likewise, Pakistan's relations with Turkey and Iran are also may become difficult, for likely the same reasons, as the later two also are trying to become the undeclared leaders of the middle east and the Muslim world, as a whole.

With KSA, it will be very difficult to avoid such an eventuality, if not down right impossible; Shared historical geopolitical and military cooperation, and culture will likely delay any sort of degradation of ties, but it will be unlikely to stop such an occurrence from happening. With Turkey and Iran, things will be easier, but Pakistan will have to build and define its relationship with both the Turks and the Persians now. With Turkey, Pakistan has the benefit that it won't have to directly compete with them, as both are geographically far apart, with similar noncompeting interests and different immediate priorities in their respective neighborhoods; both nations will have time to adjust to each other's geopolitical needs and interests, hopefully delaying or even halting any sort of downgrade in relations.

Despite what it may seem like at times, both Iran and Pakistan are quite sensitive to each other's interests, considering they're both immediate neighbors. CPEC has also helped to bring both nations together, as Chabahar seems to be stuck in its tracks, despite India's assurances of its financial and political support. Right now, the two major issues between Pakistan and Iran seem to be border management, and Iran's conflict with KSA, which both Iran and KSA seem to be actively fighting within Pakistan, through the use of militias, politicians and sectarian extremist groups. With Iran, Pakistan needs to incentives economics, so that Iran will see more benefits from supporting Pakistan geopolitically, instead of competing against it, this may be the only way mutually beneficial way to pacify Iran.

Of course, these are simply my own views, so take them with a pinch of salt.

The issue has less to do with the alliance and an overall change in the way the Kingdom is run. Unlike the Khaleejis, the House of Saud has been blind to any walking away from oil until recently. They are only now realizing in the past 10-15 years that they need a Saudi based workforce at all levels of society rather than one based on immigrants.
There is also a need to keep a loyal population as regardless of alliances between the key Royals & Establishment republicans within the US, the majority of the population and even many of the 4000 or so princes resent it on religious-political grounds.

One way is to keep the ancillary ruling class flush with money & out of politics while letting the Saudi Citizen enjoy lots of privileges with little work(although this is a misnomer as a lot of Saudi Middle class and lower-middle class work a lot to survive).

Coming to the alliance, there is nothing Islamic about it besides that fact that the leader's of participating countries are circumcised. The focus here was to form a bulwark against Persia who are using both direct and asymmetric means to assert themselves again- as such a extension of Russian control (recent protests in Iran highlight both real and financed anger at Russia).
Does it not bother anyone that despite all the hoopla against the Saudis(and their GCC kin), they just purchase advanced equipment like no one's business?

It is no accident. First, it pays to have a heavily armed Arab front against the Iranians(and by inference- Russia) so that if push comes to shove; the US can leave the middle east a cold-war esque combat zone while it turns back to focus on the two eastern power houses of Russia & China.
Second, the billions poured in assist the Defence manufacturing complex & allows the money sent to pay for middle eastern oil to return back home.

This alliance was an effort to try and get some military momentum with cannon fodder from poorer countries like Egypt, Pakistan & others into marching into Iraq to "protect them from ISIS" and creating a bullwark against Iran.

Thankfully, while one can accuse Pakistan's establishment of great many a folly; in this case they read the situation well and are still not at all keen on taking on Iran directly.

Our focus is now on making us a trade hub for central asia and in turn being able to create a positive gravitational effect of foreign policy to attract countries from the middle east including Iran to become stake holders in that trade route. That stake allows us to use influence and eventually make Afghanistan succumb to some form of quiet resentment where it feels isolation or at the least anger from its neighbors in case it tries to act against us at the behest of India.

In addition, with CPEC we might eventually be able to create a stable growth in the economy(if possibly imploding eventually in 50-80 years) to finance a strong enough conventional force that is able to last beyond the current projected 10-15 days against India.

Right now, the game is being planned for 50-80 years; the way the world is going, not many can see or plan beyond that.

Disclaimer: The above represents my opinion based on observation of world events & verifiable news sources along with informed opinions. IT may or may not represent reality.

 

[BHarwana]

Okay now a Road trip visit from Pakistan is charged 80000 PKR for Iran and Air trip is charged 140000. For India it charged 60000 Indian Rupee via ship and 120000 IR via air. Every group has one person who guides this whole group and makes the trip and he is a certified of Irani Gov. from this fund 10 % per person goes to Houthis and every passenger of this trip knows that.

I am sorry mate..I am not much familliar with Chines engagement...But still i agree with you as i do not know much about it.

 

[PakSword]

The alliance is there concretely, the speculations are about if General Raheel will lead it or take a high position in its leadership..His condition was to have an arbitrary role..

BS map of Pakistan..

@Oscar @Emmie

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

May be Pakistan is providing intel to Saudis regarding Houthi terrorists?

YES.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1232480

 

[The SC]

The issue has less to do with the alliance and an overall change in the way the Kingdom is run. Unlike the Khaleejis, the House of Saud has been blind to any walking away from oil until recently. They are only now realizing in the past 10-15 years that they need a Saudi based workforce at all levels of society rather than one based on immigrants.
There is also a need to keep a loyal population as regardless of alliances between the key Royals & Establishment republicans within the US, the majority of the population and even many of the 4000 or so princes resent it on religious-political grounds.

One way is to keep the ancillary ruling class flush with money & out of politics while letting the Saudi Citizen enjoy lots of privileges with little work(although this is a misnomer as a lot of Saudi Middle class and lower-middle class work a lot to survive).

Coming to the alliance, there is nothing Islamic about it besides that fact that the leader's of participating countries are circumcised. The focus here was to form a bulwark against Persia who are using both direct and asymmetric means to assert themselves again- as such a extension of Russian control (recent protests in Iran highlight both real and financed anger at Russia).
Does it not bother anyone that despite all the hoopla against the Saudis(and their GCC kin), they just purchase advanced equipment like no one's business?

It is no accident. First, it pays to have a heavily armed Arab front against the Iranians(and by inference- Russia) so that if push comes to shove; the US can leave the middle east a cold-war esque combat zone while it turns back to focus on the two eastern power houses of Russia & China.
Second, the billions poured in assist the Defence manufacturing complex & allows the money sent to pay for middle eastern oil to return back home.

This alliance was an effort to try and get some military momentum with cannon fodder from poorer countries like Egypt, Pakistan & others into marching into Iraq to "protect them from ISIS" and creating a bullwark against Iran.

Thankfully, while one can accuse Pakistan's establishment of great many a folly; in this case they read the situation well and are still not at all keen on taking on Iran directly.

Our focus is now on making us a trade hub for central asia and in turn being able to create a positive gravitational effect of foreign policy to attract countries from the middle east including Iran to become stake holders in that trade route. That stake allows us to use influence and eventually make Afghanistan succumb to some form of quiet resentment where it feels isolation or at the least anger from its neighbors in case it tries to act against us at the behest of India.

In addition, with CPEC we might eventually be able to create a stable growth in the economy(if possibly imploding eventually in 50-80 years) to finance a strong enough conventional force that is able to last beyond the current projected 10-15 days against India.

Right now, the game is being planned for 50-80 years; the way the world is going, not many can see or plan beyond that.

Disclaimer: The above represents my opinion based on observation of world events & verifiable news sources along with informed opinions. IT may or may not represent reality.

1) There was an Arab coalition planed with the existing International coalition to do that in Iraq, but it seems that Iraq does not need them for now..The newly formed Muslim coalition against terrorism is a new entity, where neither Syria nor Iraq, Iran, Algeria and other Muslim countries are part of yet, they are joining one by one, because they want to know the scope of it.. this coalition will try to help any Muslim country that suffers from terrorism, on condition that that country makes a formal demand to the coalition.The case of Iraq in your essay prompted me to give this explanation..

2) Long term planning is not more than 15 years if one wants relatively sound predictions, beyond that it becomes speculations at best..

For the rest of your essay I agree with you 100% and respect your valuable opinion..

 

[HAIDER]

The author forgot Turkey perhaps even Indonesia (which doesn't really demand it's weight in the "Muslim World").



Turkey is Pakistan's gateway for military and political support. Turkey and Pakistan will probably agree to disagree on issues in the Middle East, while presenting a unified/similar responses to international affairs (bar China's Xinjiang issue).

But much of the closeness of Pakistan-Turkish relations are built upon President Erdogan's policies.

Not Turkish state policy , but a leader's personal perception to gain support .

 

[The SC]

BS map of Pakistan..

@Oscar @Emmie

You are right,, they have shrinked the Asian part of the map to Show Malaysia..

 

[H!TchHiker]

Share the wealth and people will shed/share the blood for you.. This is what world reality is..

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Have you ever thought why Pakistan and Turkey are not Supporting Saudia in Yemen. Because if Pakistan make a move in that direction it can start a civil war in Pakistan.

This is the problem...Threat of so called civil war as if there is no LEAs, FC or Army in Pakistan....As if Pakistan is like Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan....

What I want to say that whatever state finally decides, the countrymen should respect it. This is what nations do...

The proponents of sending troops in Yemen respected the Pakistani state decision of not intervening into Yemen...The same is expected with those who are against of sending troops into Yemen...Instead of threatening of civil war by that particular sect , if Pakistan decides to join...That sect should respect the decision of state of whether joining or not...

No one is allowed to hold hostage/threaten a state...Talibans were killed due to the same reason...

 

[PakSword]

You are right,, they have shrinked the Asian part of the map to Show Malaysia..

Not talking about Malaysia.. Pakistan's map in Orange color is not right..

 

[BHarwana]

This is the problem...Threat of so called civil war as if there is no LEAs, FC or Army in Pakistan....As if Pakistan is like Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan....

What I want to say that whatever state finally decides, the countrymen should respect it. This is what nations do...

The proponents of sending troops in Yemen respected the Pakistani state decision of not intervening into Yemen...The same is expected with those who are against of sending troops into Yemen...Instead of threatening of civil war by that particular sect , if Pakistan decides to join...That sect should respect the decision of state of whether joining or not...

No one is allowed to hold hostage/threaten a state...Talibans were killed due to the same reason..

No one has threaten Pakistan of civil war. But Pakistan know the results. Pakistan is diversified country. It's decisions are based on Pakistanis will, not states will, remember we are a democracy and the State is the servant of the people. Look the Nawaz Gov supported Geo TV and when Geo went against Army entire nation out lashed Geo and the Gov of Nawaz was not able to help Geo. Pakistan is not run by state our foreign policy is not defined on the Nawaz will but there are other institutes that have saved Pakistan's interest and Pakistan's freedom. Why should Pakistan fight Houthis or Assad Gov. It is Saudia's problem those Fat *** sheiks should do it them selves. I have never seen Saudi solders give lives in Kashmir. I have never seen Saudia block Indian trade for us. If Pakistan want war we already have an enemy. It was us Pakistanis who destroyed their economy and prosperity to develop Nuclear weapons and secure our freedom. When saudia was selling oil and providing prosperity to it's citizens. We already have a war to fight in Kashmir we cannot go to Yemen or Syria. We have the terrorism focus shifted back to middle east. We don't want it back. Let them fight what they them selves created. We have an ever growing enemy and we have to defeat that enemy. USA is not going to war in Yemen. Saudis pay them billions USA should go not us. This is the country of Pakistanis not those sheikhs or Irans country. These weapons were developed by us. This Army has Pakistani blood running through it's veins not Saudi. When a soldier die in battle there will a mother in Pakistan and there will be a sister in Pakistan that will be crying her heart out not in Saudia. These lovely live of our soldiers are not for Saudia or Yemen or Iran or any other sectarian war. They belong to Pakistan and if these lives need to spent it will be for Pakistan.

Not talking about Malaysia.. Pakistan's map in Orange color is not right..

Agreed only Saudi map is in green color? lol Why?

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

No one has threaten Pakistan of civil war. But Pakistan know the results. Pakistan is diversified country. It's decisions are based on Pakistanis will, not states will, remember we are a democracy and the State is the servant of the people. Look the Nawaz Gov supported Geo TV and when Geo went against Army entire nation out lashed Geo and the Gov of Nawaz was not able to help Geo. Pakistan is not run by state our foreign policy is not defined on the Nawaz will but there are other institutes that have saved Pakistan's interest and Pakistan's freedom. Why should Pakistan fight Houthis or Assad Gov. It is Saudia's problem those Fat *** sheiks should do it them selves. I have never seen Saudi solders give lives in Kashmir. I have never seen Saudia block Indian trade for us. If Pakistan want war we already have an enemy. It was us Pakistanis who destroyed their economy and prosperity to develop Nuclear weapons and secure our freedom. When saudia was selling oil and providing prosperity to it's citizens. We already have a war to fight in Kashmir we cannot go to Yemen or Syria. We have the terrorism focus shifted back to middle east. We don't want it back. Let them fight what they them selves created. We have an ever growing enemy and we have to defeat that enemy. USA is not going to war in Yemen. Saudis pay them billions USA should go not us. This is the country of Pakistanis not those sheikhs or Irans country. These weapons were developed by us. This Army has Pakistani blood running through it's veins not Saudi. When a soldier die in battle there will a mother in Pakistan and there will be a sister in Pakistan that will be crying her heart out not in Saudia. These lovely live of our soldiers are not for Saudia or Yemen or Iran or any other sectarian war. They belong to Pakistan and if these lives need to spent it will be for Pakistan.

Pakistan interest lies in securing middle east, If middle east continues to burn, Pakistanis will face the heat...

Rest I agree with you...

 

[BHarwana]

Pakistan interest lies in securing middle east, If middle east continues to burn, Pakistanis will face the heat...

When Pakistan was burning middle east never felt heat why should we Just close our borders. We are already sending Afghan refugees back. All we need to do is to develop a Gov in Afghanistan that is in our favor, push America totally out of Afghanistan, try to fabricate unrest in India but using it population divide and work on our prosperity utilizing CPEC work our way up the food chain. We need to give ISI a free hand tell it fabricate our surroundings and sit back and relax. We only need to intervene when there is some new development in Palestine.