Why dont we develop millitary ties with Russia?

[Acid]

Assalam Alaykum

Why doesn't Pakistan enter into defence ties with Russia and buy some MiG fighter planes?

 

[ajpirzada]

we dont buy migs coz india have already got them. pakistan and india always go for a different platform when it comes to buying a war machine. building strong relations with russia is gonna take a lot of time. there is a strong military alliance bw russia and india and untill india fully moves into western block, it wont be easy for pak to build such kind of relations with russia. though allowin sale of jet engine for jf 17 is a gud start

 

[Super Falcon]

thanks thanks alot ACID and aj pirzada i disagree with you

if india can make militry ties with usa why not pakitan with russia china has biggermilitry ties with russia than india and russia prefers china over india if we can get help from china to bring russia and pakistan in some kind of a friendship. just need a good foreign policy to do that and russia also know it will lose some indian militry contracts in future so russia has to fill these contracts with pakistan if we ask them and u said that pakistan and india cannot buy similar kind of weapons i will give you prime example of Mirage fighter jet which PAF and IAF is heavily loaded with them im not saying we buy SU 30 from russia there are a lot stuff than that SU 33 Flanker SU 35, MI Hind helicopter and also we can get future tank program of russia because india is not in that program and dont forget that we can get russian weapons from ukraine as we got IL 78 from ukraine of russian origin i hope and it is my dream in future we use some SU 35fighter jets new tanks and submarines from russia and specially MI Hind helicopter and

 

[Super Falcon]

this is my favourite attack heli if we can get it



The Mi-28 combat helicopter has been developed by Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant and is known by the NATO codename Havoc. In August 1996 Mil rolled out a prototype of the day and night capable version, the Mi-28N Night Havoc. The first production Mi-28N took its first flight in April 2004 and began flight testing with the Russian Air Force in June 2005.

The Russian Air Force has plans to procure up to 60 of this variant, now called the Mi-28NE Night Hunter.

"The Mi-28 can be armed with a mixture of air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles, unguided rockets, and podded guns. "Three were ordered in 2005 and 16 more in 2006 for delivery by 2008. The first production aircraft was delivered in May 2006 and began formal acceptance testing in September 2006. Five aircraft are involved in the testing which is scheduled to conclude in early 2008.

Mi-28 can fly at a maximum speed of 300km/h, can fly rearwards and sideways at speeds up to 100km/h and is able to hover turn at 45° a second.

DESIGN

The helicopter design is based on the conventional pod and boom configuration, with a tail rotor. The main rotor head has elastomeric bearings and the main rotor blades are made from composite materials. The tail rotor is designed on a biplane configuration, with independently controlled X-shaped blades. A new design of all plastic rotor blades, which can sustain hits from 30mm shells, has been installed on the Night Havoc Mi-28N helicopter.

The helicopter has non-retractable tricycle tail-wheel type landing gear. The energy-absorbing landing gear and seats protect the crew in a crash landing or in a low-altitude vertical fall. The crew are able to survive a vertical fall of up to 12m/s. The Mi-28 has a fully armoured cabin, including the windshield, which withstands impact by 7.62mm and 12.7mm bullets and 20mm shell fragments.

WEAPONS

The Mi-28A has small swept-back, mid-mounted stub-wings with four suspension units. Countermeasures pods are mounted on the wingtips. The helicopter can be armed with a mixture of air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles, unguided rockets, and podded guns.

The Mi-28 and Mi-28N Night Havoc are armed with Shturm and Ataka anti-tank missiles supplied by the Kolumna Design Bureau (KBM). Up to 16 anti-tank missiles can be mounted on the helicopter. Shturm is a short-range, radio command-guided missile. The Ataka missile's guidance is by narrow radar beam, and maximum range of the missile is 8km. The missile has a tandem shaped-charge warhead for penetration of 950mm to 1,000mm armour.

"The Mi-28 has a fully armoured cabin, including the windshield."The helicopter can also carry four containers, each with 20 80mm unguided rockets or with five 122mm rockets. The helicopter can alternatively carry containers with grenade launchers, 23mm guns, 12.7mm and 7.62mm machine guns, aerial bombs, and incendiary tanks.

The helicopter is equipped with a turreted 2A42 30mm cannon, stabilised in two axes, with a muzzle velocity of 1,000m/s.

FIRE CONTROL AND SURVEILLANCE

The pilot uses a helmet-mounted target designator, which allocates the target to the navigator's surveillance and fire control system. The navigator / weapons officer is then able to deploy guided weapons or guns against the target. The targeting system follows the direction of the pilot's eyes.

The integrated surveillance and fire control system has two optical channels providing wide and narrow fields of view, a narrow-field-of-view optical television channel, and laser rangefinder. The system can move within 110° in azimuth and from +13° to -40° in elevation.

ENGINES

The Mi-28A helicopter is powered by two TV3-117VMA turboshaft engines, fitted on either side of the fuselage. It is equipped with an auxiliary power unit for self-contained operation. The thermal signature of the helicopter has been reduced by a factor of 2.5 times compared to its predecessor, the Mi-24.

"The Mi-28A helicopter is powered by two TV3-117VMA turboshaft engines."MI-28N NIGHT HAVOC

The Night Havoc helicopter retains most of the structural design of the Mi-28. The main difference is the installation of an integrated electronic combat system. Other modifications include: new main gearbox for transmitting higher power to the rotor; new high-efficiency blades with swept-shaped tips; and an engine fuel injection control system.

The main sensors of the integrated electronic combat system are the microwave radar antenna, mounted above the rotor head, and a forward-looking infrared (FLIR) system. The system displays the helicopter location on a moving map indicator, and flight, systems and target information on liquid crystal displays. The crew are equipped with night-vision goggles.

 

[batmannow]

thanks thanks alot ACID and aj pirzada i disagree with you

if india can make militry ties with usa why not pakitan with russia china has biggermilitry ties with russia than india and russia prefers china over india if we can get help from china to bring russia and pakistan in some kind of a friendship. just need a good foreign policy to do that and russia also know it will lose some indian militry contracts in future so russia has to fill these contracts with pakistan if we ask them and u said that pakistan and india cannot buy similar kind of weapons i will give you prime example of Mirage fighter jet which PAF and IAF is heavily loaded with them im not saying we buy SU 30 from russia there are a lot stuff than that SU 33 Flanker SU 35, MI Hind helicopter and also we can get future tank program of russia because india is not in that program and dont forget that we can get russian weapons from ukraine as we got IL 78 from ukraine of russian origin i hope and it is my dream in future we use some SU 35fighter jets new tanks and submarines from russia and specially MI Hind helicopter and

Super Falcon; sir
i would like to back you on this issue! for sure.
but , my view is quite different of yours, most of the times ! when making comparison between IAF & PAF , many of our commrads argue the "MAN BEHIND MAHCINE" theory of paf, surly it is right argument, & i really agree on that, so even if we take this "MAN BEHIND MACHINE" theory, its not a problum, that we can have same aircrafts, which now belongs to IAF inventry.

man behind machine, is the main thing , i realy dont understand the foolish logic that" if india have some thing , so we should not have it?
if thats is the wise thinking , thn what about nuk's! india got it frist, why we had followed india? whats the point?

 

[notorious_eagle]

India is the biggest purchaser of Russian arms, i really dont see Moscow upsetting Delhi. Sure Pakistan can develop trade relations with Russia but it would be impossible to buy Russian arms because India will as usual ***** about it. Instead of buying arms from Russia, we should invest in our own arms industry and buy more Chinese arms.

 

[zeeshan809]

Russia must be involved in Afghanistan - under the table (who knows).

 

[tamir]

The Russians still haven't forgotten Afghanistan. I personally believe that we need improve ties with Russia.

 

[Moscow]

Russia must be involved in Afghanistan - under the table (who knows).

sir you are totally right how do you think indias raw operate in afganistan without the help of the russian agencies which have a great hold on the cis states.
its my personal opinion so i cannot provide you links to the whole argument.
thanks

 

[Moscow]

The Russians still haven't forgotten Afghanistan. I personally believe that we need improve ties with Russia.

the afganistan you are talking about is the story of the USSR,many people forget that the USSR and russia is not the same country.
you know what annoyes the russians the most regarding pakistan is that it one point morally supported the chechen rebels.which had links to the afgan rebels.

 

[tamir]

the afganistan you are talking about is the story of the USSR,many people forget that the USSR and russia is not the same country.
you know what annoyes the russians the most regarding pakistan is that it one point morally supported the chechen rebels.which had links to the afgan rebels.

In my opinion moral support hasn't gotten people anywhere. Look at whats happening in Gaza today.

 

[Moscow]

thanks thanks alot ACID and aj pirzada i disagree with you

if india can make militry ties with usa why not pakitan with russia china has biggermilitry ties with russia than india and russia prefers china over india if we can get help from china to bring russia and pakistan in some kind of a friendship. just need a good foreign policy to do that and russia also know it will lose some indian militry contracts in future so russia has to fill these contracts with pakistan if we ask them and u said that pakistan and india cannot buy similar kind of weapons i will give you prime example of Mirage fighter jet which PAF and IAF is heavily loaded with them im not saying we buy SU 30 from russia there are a lot stuff than that SU 33 Flanker SU 35, MI Hind helicopter and also we can get future tank program of russia because india is not in that program and dont forget that we can get russian weapons from ukraine as we got IL 78 from ukraine of russian origin i hope and it is my dream in future we use some SU 35fighter jets new tanks and submarines from russia and specially MI Hind helicopter and

sir even though russia is ready to offer pakistan the sukhoi -35 which is a 4++ generation fighter how many can pakistan afford to buy at this point. its not cheap, lets say even though pakistan orders a few it cannot match the indian order of 230 su-30mki so how do you think russia will gamble to sell planes to pakistan where there is a risk of losing the indian market.


moreover india developing military ties with us is always welcome,the real truth is india is involved with a lot of joint ventures with russia any high level US tech falling into the indias hands is as good as falling into russias hand.
moreover the production line for russians arms for indias market is full till 2017 it cannot supply india with more weapons till then.every month it is supplying india with either planes,choppers,tanks,ammunitions,subs it cannot increase the production any more that is why there is always a delay in supply.

moreover your point is true regarding ukraine pakistan started developing ties with ukraine, how do you think russia should react?

 

[Moscow]

Assalam Alaykum

Why doesn't Pakistan enter into defence ties with Russia and buy some MiG fighter planes?

thats not possible sir because mig corporation has a clause that whatever weapon it sold to india it cannot sell pakistan. and all of us know that india has all the variants ,kinds and type of mig planes that is built.

 

[Moscow]

India is the biggest purchaser of Russian arms, i really dont see Moscow upsetting Delhi. Sure Pakistan can develop trade relations with Russia but it would be impossible to buy Russian arms because India will as usual ***** about it. Instead of buying arms from Russia, we should invest in our own arms industry and buy more Chinese arms.

just one question to you sir where do you think is the origin of chinese weapons? you cannot ignore russia if you want to buy chinese weapons atleast in the near future.
just take the example of jf-17 aircraft if the russian president himself did not intervene then the chinese jf-17 fitted with russian engines would have never reached islamabads hand.india tried its best to block the sales and its an open secret.

 

[notorious_eagle]

just one question to you sir where do you think is the origin of chinese weapons? you cannot ignore russia if you want to buy chinese weapons atleast in the near future.
just take the example of jf-17 aircraft if the russian president himself did not intervene then the chinese jf-17 fitted with russian engines would have never reached islamabads hand.india tried its best to block the sales and its an open secret.

Brother you are right, the origin for J11 and J10 is Russian. But look at the whole picture, sure China acquired the technology from Russia but through indigenous they have further improved the J10 and J11. In the past China needed Russia's help regarding advanced weaponry such as figher aircrafts, but keep in mind that China has a much higher budget in R&D as compared to Russia and India. Russia and India are not even in the top 10 list of R&D spending, the reason why Chinese Defence Industry has grown soo fast is because of the money that Chinese are pouring in(they will overtake the US in about 10 years). As far as the JF17 are concerned, yes it is being fitted with Russian engines but even if the Russians wouldnt have allowed the reexport there were still other options. Although we are very thankfull to our Russian friends that they allowed the reexport of Russian engines, but dont be surprised if the Chinese develop a better aircraft engine than the Russians . To sum it all up, the Chinese have relied extensively on the Russians for there defence needs in the past but now China has spend billions of dollars to improve its own domestic industry.