Why does Young Generation want to leave Pakistan?

[VCheng]

You live the US, right?

It is always interesting to seek other perspectives.

 

[313ghazi]

As a Pakistani American I know it's hypocritical to say this

But home is home, fix our home guys - it's irreplaceable

Just my 2 cent's

I used to say that, but you know what - you have 1 life. In that life you have a responsibility to your parents, your partner, your children. You cannot sacrifice them in persuit of patriotism.

It's pointless in Pakistan - look after yourself and your own. Your youth will pass you buy and you'll only have failed endeavours.

Ive spent 22 years on this forum hoping, wishing, discussing - it's worse than ever.

 

[FuturePAF]

It is always interesting to seek other perspectives.

What do you think of Dave Ramsey?

 

[VCheng]

What do you think of Dave Ramsey?

Is he thinking of leaving Pakistan?

 

[FuturePAF]

Is he thinking of leaving Pakistan?

I didn’t even know he ever went there.
No, my reference to Dave Ramsey is the response younger American men have to Dave Ramsey calling them out for being “males not men”. Also, I’m referencing that even in the US, there is despair amongst many young men.

This is the Dave Ramsey video in question:

 

[VCheng]

I didn’t even know he ever went there.
No, my reference to Dave Ramsey is the response younger American men have to Dave Ramsey calling them out for being “males not men”. Also, I’m referencing that even in the US, there is despair amongst many young men.

So what is your perspective on the causes of this despair among many young men here, that could apply to those contemplating leaving Pakistan, in reference to the topic of this thread?

 

[PakFactor]

Come on man, I can't be the only person from the younger generation who wants to come back

We're five brothers beside me investing here and there. The others have never sent a dime to Pakistan and never will per their desire and have flat-out rejected even getting their NICOPs as they feel it's a useless piece of plastic with no value. One of my brothers said the driver's license I have in my pocket holds more weight than Pakistani citizenship; besides my parents, wife, and I, none of them or their spouses have a NICOP.

There is a story around dwindling remittances apart from the crooks ruling.

The first generation immigrants would be sending a sizeable savings to their close relatives. As the years go by, the immigrants would be naturalized or have children in the residence country.

This would cause less and less $ to be remitted back to Pakistan and more income spent in the resident country itself.

Add to the fact that, less and less people (comparatively) are able to move abroad which fails to cover the gap.

So there you go.

Even the most extreme cases of people wanting to come back, face a sad reality and do a runner.

A feeling of attachment developed with overseas Pakistanis slowly within the newer generation before seeing the No-Confidence Vote. It's all gone; as the saying goes, it takes years to build trust and one mistake to destroy it.

Pakistan cannot be fixed as it is not faulty. Pakistan was designed to be run the way it is now. You can't fix something that's not broken.

No more actual words have been said than yours.

Honestly, they've brought Billo to wow the crowd in the West, but they failed at realizing the younger generation is more well-read overseas and understands his disgusting family's history. None of us can relate to anything in him as an individual (or whatever you want to call that makhlooq).

 

[Ssan]

We're five brothers beside me investing here and there. The others have never sent a dime to Pakistan and never will per their desire and have flat-out rejected even getting their NICOPs as they feel it's a useless piece of plastic with no value. One of my brothers said the driver's license I have in my pocket holds more weight than Pakistani citizenship; besides my parents, wife, and I, none of them or their spouses have a NICOP.



A feeling of attachment developed with overseas Pakistanis slowly within the newer generation before seeing the No-Confidence Vote. It's all gone; as the saying goes, it takes years to build trust and one mistake to destroy it.



No more actual words have been said than yours.

Honestly, they've brought Billo to wow the crowd in the West, but they failed at realizing the younger generation is more well-read overseas and understands his disgusting family's history. None of us can relate to anything in him as an individual (or whatever you want to call that makhlooq).

Bro honestly, I can only echo this sentiment. For all of my kids, the first thing I did was get them a Nicop. And people always asked why? What value does this document have?

PTI had engaged overseas Pakistanis like myself. I can speak for myself, until recently, I didn’t even believe that Pakistan should exist. Not because I buy any Indian propaganda. But because you tell me what the point is of having successive corrupt as hell govts - and people electing them solely on the basis of what ethnicity or region they belong to. Well, I have no interest in being part of a country where I will be seen as muhajjir - and people will vote on what ethnicity they are.

But that changed when we could believe that possibly a nationalist party of middle class educated people had finally arrived with an anti-corruption agenda.

I don’t advertise this publicly but I only sent money to Pakistan after PTI came to power and I know many others in same boat. As soon as they were removed, why would I? I have no interest in being a sacrificial lamb.

If IK loses in this struggle, i know for a fact that Pakistan will lose the majority of educated overseas Pakistanis. We have no interest in being sacrificial lambs for stupid peoples agendas.

If the current government stays in power, I recommend whoever can leave to leave. You guys are not sacrificial lambs either.

 

[kursed]

Younger gen? Even the older gen wants to leave Pak. Out of 20 in my uni group, not one is in Pak any more. I’ve lived in Pak for 36 out of 38 years of my life, and have only seen the place regress into a cesspool of lawlessness, corruption, religious bigotry and extremism. A land where the idiom might is right, literally comes to life.

If you do not have a buy into the system, are legit, law abiding and want to live a normal life - state considers you a pariah and bends over backwards for those who do entirely the opposite. It eventually won’t even matter if Khan makes it back to the power, military and judiciary - the two cornerstones of Pakistan’s existence have made sure the the country will never see rule of law and will never be run by an apt leadership. The system only exists to cater to whims of a few.

 

[FuturePAF]

So what is your perspective on the causes of this despair among many young men here, that could apply to those contemplating leaving Pakistan, in reference to the topic of this thread?

If they are contemplating leaving, the costs are will be high for their personal lives in so many ways, which wasn’t as much the case in many ways a generation or two ago, and without the right education they will struggle to enter and stay in the middle class. Their children will grow up in a western culture and will be westerners with a western mindset by and large (with all the plus and minus that entails, many of the ills I see more and more in Pakistan when there isn’t much for the comfortable and educated to do).

Usually it requires both, but without a real focus on their upbringing or good educational opportunities, children of immigrants will be less well equipped then those of native born parents to handle the competitive job market for well paying jobs.

If the kids aren’t successful, they will have to settle for living in less desirable neighborhoods with their own social ills and negative influences.

This is not exclusive to the West, but the same in most developed nations they move to. It’s similar to the Lie Flat and Let It Rot sentiment in China.

Similar to professionals fleeing after the fall of the Soviet union, If people really want to leave they would best be as educate as possible, and even then be prepared to not be working at the same level they were back in their home country. I knew of a Soviet doctor that worked as a nurse in NYC. Nothing wrong with being a nurse, it’s a highly respectable job, but the shift maybe hard for some to handle.

Also the cost of living is high in the west, especially in or near major cities most immigrants want to move to. I’m thinking of Orange County, California, where my Vietnamese refugee friends moved to in the 80s and compare it with how the Afghan refugees have to live in the Bay Area, and what prospects they have. It’s not that they will have to live that way forever but will require a lot more hard work then it use to.

But all these points must be moot if the situation is this bad that so many want to leave. For many bright and driven young men and women, they see the remittances or savings their family members or friends send back home and think of the lives they could have if they just spend a few years abroad, some in my family initially thought when they first moved.

But at this point, I can see that it has become either no opportunities in Pakistan just anything to get by if they live abroad.

Overtime they stayed to give their kids a decent chance to be as successful as possible. Considering how ill adapted the next generation was to going back, that thought of going back faded. It reminds me of the journey of the Pakistani-New Zealander YouTuber that moved back with her family to Pakistan, but couldn’t make a go of it.

What Pakistan has going for it under proper management is the potential many southeast and east Asian countries had a genration ago. Thailand and Bali have become go to places for young professional people to remote work from. Lower cost of living has also made these places pleasant for retirees to move to. Young families have worked years in places like Dubai if their children get first class educational opportunities, while parents feel they are earning decent wages or making a difference. Mid-career middle age people have reinvented themselves in new cities and new countries, and the shift has been historically beneficial to them and their new cities. The wealth of knowledge these experienced people can bring to Pakistan can help not catch up and being a networking opportunity for local talent looking to live in Pakistan and not have to move abroad to access these experts as mentors.

All these potential strengths don’t seem to be in hands of common people, so despite the headwinds they will face abroad, who can blame them for wanting to leave. It’s just that they should know what they are getting themselves into if they make the move.

Btw, are you “ethnically Pakistani”? It doesn’t make your arguments any more or less valid, just want to see what lens you also view these issues from.

 

[HAIDER]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1601917195398807552

 

[VCheng]

If they are contemplating leaving, the costs are will be high for their personal lives in so many ways, which wasn’t as much the case in many ways a generation or two ago, and without the right education they will struggle to enter and stay in the middle class. Their children will grow up in a western culture and will be westerners with a western mindset by and large (with all the plus and minus that entails, many of the ills I see more and more in Pakistan when there isn’t much for the comfortable and educated to do).

Usually it requires both, but without a real focus on their upbringing or good educational opportunities, children of immigrants will be less well equipped then those of native born parents to handle the competitive job market for well paying jobs.

If the kids aren’t successful, they will have to settle for living in less desirable neighborhoods with their own social ills and negative influences.

This is not exclusive to the West, but the same in most developed nations they move to. It’s similar to the Lie Flat and Let It Rot sentiment in China.

Similar to professionals fleeing after the fall of the Soviet union, If people really want to leave they would best be as educate as possible, and even then be prepared to not be working at the same level they were back in their home country. I knew of a Soviet doctor that worked as a nurse in NYC. Nothing wrong with being a nurse, it’s a highly respectable job, but the shift maybe hard for some to handle.

Also the cost of living is high in the west, especially in or near major cities most immigrants want to move to. I’m thinking of Orange County, California, where my Vietnamese refugee friends moved to in the 80s and compare it with how the Afghan refugees have to live in the Bay Area, and what prospects they have. It’s not that they will have to live that way forever but will require a lot more hard work then it use to.

But all these points must be moot if the situation is this bad that so many want to leave. For many bright and driven young men and women, they see the remittances or savings their family members or friends send back home and think of the lives they could have if they just spend a few years abroad, some in my family initially thought when they first moved.

But at this point, I can see that it has become either no opportunities in Pakistan just anything to get by if they live abroad.

Overtime they stayed to give their kids a decent chance to be as successful as possible. Considering how ill adapted the next generation was to going back, that thought of going back faded. It reminds me of the journey of the Pakistani-New Zealander YouTuber that moved back with her family to Pakistan, but couldn’t make a go of it.

What Pakistan has going for it under proper management is the potential many southeast and east Asian countries had a genration ago. Thailand and Bali have become go to places for young professional people to remote work from. Lower cost of living has also made these places pleasant for retirees to move to. Young families have worked years in places like Dubai if their children get first class educational opportunities, while parents feel they are earning decent wages or making a difference. Mid-career middle age people have reinvented themselves in new cities and new countries, and the shift has been historically beneficial to them and their new cities. The wealth of knowledge these experienced people can bring to Pakistan can help not catch up and being a networking opportunity for local talent looking to live in Pakistan and not have to move abroad to access these experts as mentors.

All these potential strengths don’t seem to be in hands of common people, so despite the headwinds they will face abroad, who can blame them for wanting to leave. It’s just that they should know what they are getting themselves into if they make the move.

Btw, are you “ethnically Pakistani”? It doesn’t make your arguments any more or less valid, just want to see what lens you also view these issues from.

Thank you for your perspectives. Does your handle mean that you are planning a reverse move to join PAF in the future at some point?

 

[FuturePAF]

Thank you for your perspectives. Does your handle mean that you are planning a reverse move to join PAF in the future at some point?

No, just interested into the future of the PAF.

How about you? What does your handle mean and you didn’t answer by question from the last post; are you “ethnically Pakistani”?

 

[VCheng]

No, just interested into the future of the PAF.

How about you? What does your handle mean and you didn’t answer by question from the last post; are you “ethnically Pakistani”?

Many here would love to tell you how they know more about me than me, but you can start at my profile.

The future of PAF interests you? It cannot be bright if all the bright young future pilots want to leave the country.

 

[FuturePAF]

Many here would love to tell you how they know more about me than me, but you can start at my profile.

The future of PAF interests you? It cannot be bright if all the bright young future pilots want to leave the country.

I’m not a pilot, but that’s a different story for a different thread.

That’s one thing the PAF doesn’t lack, skilled and professional aviators. The fact that most Pakistanis keep coming back to this forum and this country in one way or another is that we haven’t given up on Pakistan. If anything the event of this year show that status quo can’t continue like it’s business and usual and reforms like those that happened in many East Asian countries in the 90s will have to happen here as well, sooner or later.

In an another thread I have given the example of Indonesia in 1998 at a GDP Of $95 Billion and its current GDP of nearly $1.2 Trillion. Even the world bank and Goldman Sachs project Pakistan to have a large economy in a few decades.

In that context, for some leaving Pakistan may not make sense, if things look like they are about to turn around and their prospects abroad will take decades for their lives to pan out; it won’t be an easy transition. It was for them that I wanted to give the benefits of decades of lived experience to give them a heads up of what to expect if they are planning the move.

For others, leaving with the thought of coming back makes sense, especially if they have the education to earn a salary that will make the move easier, and these are the kinds of people that tend to send remittances. Not everyone can afford to send remittances and amongst the younger generation, many will not send remittances if they don’t see a realistic future for themselves in Pakistan.