why does China think indian navy as incompetent underprepared for war?

[Jackdaws]

Lol. China? Do they even have military experts? I hope they are more competent than their virology experts.

 

[PradoTLC]

https://eurasiantimes.com/why-does-china-think-indian-navy-as-incompetent-underprepared-for-war/

I believe indian Navy is as good as it's airforce.

The Pakistanis commenting here, seem to have forgotten 1971.

of course not..

just like you never forgot 1965, kargil 99, Feb 27..

• OPINION
• /
• ALGERIA

The sinking feeling over Indian navy
String of recent accidents has put a question mark over the state of health of the fleet.

by Ajai Shukla
6 Mar 2014

The recent spate of fatal accident have brought the effectiveness of the navy into question [File: Reuters]
Since the turn of the century, India has invested heavily in building the navy it needs for dominating the northern Indian Ocean, a crucial maritime highway for the flow of hydrocarbons from West Asia to China, Japan and the Southeast Asian countries; and for the transportation to Europe of merchandise from those manufacturing economies.

With China's military a looming presence on its Himalayan border with Tibet, New Delhi has long derived strategic assurance from its potential stranglehold over China’s sea lines of communication, or SLOCs, as these maritime highways are termed.

Over the last seven months, however, a spate of accidents involving Indian Navy warships has placed a question mark over this capability.

On February 26, the navy chief, Admiral Devendra Kumar Joshi, resigned after an accident in which two officers were killed and five sailors seriously injured while fighting a fire in INS Sindhuratna, one of the navy's nine Russian Kilo-class submarines.

This was not the first such incident. On August 14 last year, a catastrophic explosion inside INS Sindhurakshak, another Kilo-class submarine that was berthed in Mumbai, killed all 18 sailors on board and sunk the vessel.

The surface fleet has been as accident-prone. In 2011, a frigate sank after colliding with a merchant vessel.

Last December, a minesweeper was gutted in a major fire. Just days later, one of the navy's most modern frigates, INS Talwar, rammed and sank a fishing trawler.

Extended poor form

The pressure that was already building on the navy came to a head with the INS Sindhuratna blaze, resulting in Admiral Joshi's departure.

The Indian Navy's extended run of poor form would have come as a surprise to other navies, both regional and global, which accept, even welcome, India's pre-eminence in the Indian Ocean. The US, Russian, British and French navies, which conduct joint training with their Indian counterparts every year, hold it in high esteem.

As one US official put it recently: "This is still the most reliable force for safeguarding shipping lanes between the Gulf of Aden and Strait of Hormuz on the west, and the Malacca Strait in the east."

India's growing maritime authority flows from its geography, with the Indian peninsula protruding like a 1000-kilometre dagger into the Indian Ocean.

Its island chains of Lakshadweep, and Andaman & Nicobar, enhance its control of key international shipping lanes that pass through these waters. India has committed money, resources and strategic attention to building up the bristling Andaman & Nicobar Command (ANC), which dominates the nearby Malacca Strait, through which 60,000 commercial vessels transit each year, an average of one every nine minutes. Most analysts believe that the Indian Navy - with its flotilla of some 135 warships, and its $5.6bn annual budget - can shut down the Indian Ocean shipping lanes whenever it chooses.

'Indian Ocean is not India's ocean'

Beijing is all too aware of this. Chinese leaders, dating back to Defence Minister Chi Haotian in 1994, have argued that "the Indian Ocean is not India's ocean." But the fundamental determinants of naval power - force levels and proximity - suggest that China is some way from being able to challenge India in its own oceanic backyard.

Yet, the Indian Navy's ability to dominate these waters rests on its ability to operate its warships effectively, something that is now being questioned after the spate of recent accidents.

Excuses that India's Kilo-class submarines are inadequate or obsolete are patently untrue, since more than 50 Kilo-class submarines are operating in navies worldwide, including those of Russia, China, Vietnam, Algeria, Poland, Romania and Iran.

Algeria's two Kilo-class submarines are older than India's, but have suffered no significant mishaps. INS Sindhurakshak, which sank last August, had seen just 16 years of operational service; and had recently returned from a mid-life refit in Russia that extended its service life by at least another 15 years.

A service life of over 30 years is not unusual for submarines.

India's earlier Foxtrot-class submarines served in the fleet for over 35 years. Many of the US Navy's Los Angeles-class attack submarines, the mainstay of its underwater force, are 30-35 years old.

Nor can it be argued that India's Kilo-class submarines have outlived their utility; the Indian Navy's own long term plan for the future fleet, envisages many more years of service for these vessels.

Under heavy pressure from the media and the defence ministry in New Delhi, the Indian Navy has pledged to re-examine all its safety procedures, and to audit its weapons-related procedures.

An analysis of all accidents will now be circulated within the navy so that everyone absorbs the lessons. Yet, there are complaints from the admirals that an intrusive media has blown the issue of safety out of proportion. Several of the recent incidents, say admirals, barely rate a mention.

They argue that the navy's 160 ships typically clock some 12,000 ship-days at sea annually, in varied waters and weather. In these challenging circumstances, they say, some incidents are inevitable.

Even if that were true, there are serious systemic weaknesses in India's equipment procurement that continue to delay the navy's fleet modernisation.

Russia's four-year delay in delivering a recently commissioned aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya; and a three-year slippage in building a second carrier in India, forces the Indian Navy to continue operating an aircraft carrier that has been in the water for over 60 years.

Even as India's older submarines sail into the autumn of their service lives, the navy's long-term submarine building plan of 1999, which envisages building 24 submarines in 30 years, has not yet seen a single one yet delivered.

The first six - Scorpene submarines, being built by Mazagon Dock Limited, Mumbai - will join service only in 2015-2018.

Shortfalls

The next six still await the Indian government's sanction. A line of frigates and destroyers being constructed in Mumbai are four-five years behind schedule.

Given these shortfalls, it is hardly surprising that warships are often retained in service long after they should have been scrapped.

It is likely that the shock waves of Admiral Joshi's resignation will jolt the Indian Navy into taking hard steps towards improving operational safety.

The expected entry into service of 45 under-construction warships over the coming years will allow the retirement of older vessels.

Meanwhile, the refining of India's procurement procedures - which has been ongoing, even if slowly - would ensure a steady flow of running spares (like submarine batteries) which will reduce the chances of malfunction-related accidents.

The Indian Navy has been reminded that accidents carry consequences for admirals as well as sailors. This might be Admiral Joshi's most valuable legacy.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Ajai Shukla
Ajai Shukla writes on strategic affairs, defence and diplomacy. He is a former army colonel, and now based in New Delhi.

 

[T90TankGuy]

IN is irrelevant compared to China. OP's post doesnt mention Pakistan's Navy or Pakistan Military thinking Indian Navy is irrelevant.

PAF dominated IAF on 27th Feb2019 , that doesnt mean PAF is better than PLAAF or USAF.

Have you read about the PLAN ? understood their strategies and how much experience they have? you might get a different picture once you do .

 

[Daghalodi]

Have you read about the PLAN ? understood their strategies and how much experience they have? you might get a different picture once you do .

Dont compare apples with oranges.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Why dont you open a new thread about Pakistan's Navy instead of de railing this thread with irrelevant BS??.

It was not my choice for Pakistani navy to get its posterior whooped by Indian Navy. Its was Pakistani navy who wanted gave in to Indian navy's needs

Had there been another nation navy that fought against Indian Navy in the last major conflict, I would have brought that example to sooth your bruised ego

 

[Daghalodi]

It was not my choice for Pakistani navy to get *** whooped by Indian Navy.

Had there be another nation navy that fought against Indian Navy in the last major conflict, I would have brought that example to sooth your bruised ego

I guess your infatuation with Pakistan is beyond limits hence when something like Chinese Might or Military comes up your dhoti gets twisted in bollywood Slumber.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

I guess your infatuation with Pakistan is beyond limits hence when something like Chinese Might or Military comes up your dhoti gets twisted in bollywood Slumber.

Of course it does, after all we Indians gave away Shaksgam to China without a fight

 

[Areesh]

Of course it does, after all we Indians gave away Shaksgam to China without a fight

True

Since we never controlled the said territory unlike India who gave land in Aksai chin that it once controlled after a beating

 

[Daghalodi]

Of course it does, after all we Indians gave away Shaksgam to China without a fight

Hope you remmeber 1962 when your dhoti was torn apart without a fight

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Hope you remmeber 1962 when your dhoti was torn apart without a fight

True

Since we never controlled the said territory unlike India who gave land in Aksai chin that it once controlled after a beating

If only India would chosen the honorable mard-e-momin option surrender like in 1971 instead of fighting

 

[Areesh]

If only India would chosen the honorable mard-e-momin option surrender in 1971 instead of fighting

But pajeet went for the option to fight and resulted in losing territory in both sectors of the war

If that wasn't enough it also was ready to hand over the whole state of Arunachal Pardesh to China. An option even mard e momin never opted for despite being engaged in a civil war

 

[Daghalodi]

If only India would chosen the honorable mard-e-momin option surrender like in 1971 instead of fighting

Since you brought in 1971, you do remmber 1000 rule over hindustan!!

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

But pajeet went for the option to fight and resulted in losing territory in both sectors of the war

If that wasn't enough it also was ready to hand over the whole state of Arunachal Pardesh to China. An option even mard e momin never opted for despite being engaged in a civil war

So according to Pakjeets here India was ready handover the whole state of Arunachal Pardesh to China but Chinese showed sympathy and let us Indian have Arunachal Pardesh

@Axomiya_lora get a load of this


I am guessing mard e momins showed similar sympathy to Indian military in 1971, to get shafted by Indian military and humbling offer half of their nation up

I on behalf of all Indians here thank mard e momin sympathy

Since you brought in 1971, you do remmber 1000 rule over hindustan!!

No I remember 2400 year rule of over India

First Achaemnid rule of India as early as 535 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_conquest_of_the_Indus_Valley

Then Greeks, Sythians, Huns, Arabs, Afghans, Turks, and finally British
thats 535 BC to 1947 = over 2400 years

It was brave Pakistani empires of Maurya, Maratha and Gujara Prathihara that stood up to invaders
No wonder Indians celebrate their invaders by naming missiles on Ghazni, Abdali etc unlike Pakistanis

 

[Daghalodi]

So according to Pakjeets here India was ready handover the whole state of Arunachal Pardesh to China but Chinese showed sympathy and let us Indian have Arunachal Pardesh

@Axomiya_lora get a load of this


I am guessing mard e momins showed similar sympathy to Indian military in 1971, to get shafted by Indian military and humbling offer half of their nation up

I on behalf of all Indians here thank mard e momin sympathy


No I remember 2400 year rule of over India

First Achaemnid rule of India as early as 535 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_conquest_of_the_Indus_Valley

Then Greeks, Sythians, Huns, Arabs, Afghans, Turks, and finally British
thats 535 BC to 1947 = over 2400 years

It was brave Pakistani empires of Maurya, Maratha and Gujara Prathihara that stood up to invaders
No wonder Indians celebrate their invaders by naming missiles on Ghazni, Abdali etc unlike Pakistanis

There was no India like 2400 years back. It was hindus murdering eachother for power when the Muslims invaded and broke the hindu Maharajas.

India became a country when the British Raj Ruled over. Looks like you guys are born slaves. Ruled over by every Nation on Earth.

Had it not been for British Raj, there would be no India and Pakistan.

Coming back to China Here is the Indian Surmas surrending to China in 1962

 

[Areesh]

So according to Pakjeets here India was ready handover the whole state of Arunachal Pardesh to China but Chinese showed sympathy and let us Indian have Arunachal Pardesh

@Axomiya_lora get a load of this


I am guessing mard e momins showed similar sympathy to Indian military in 1971, to get shafted by Indian military and humbling offer half of their nation up

I on behalf of all Indians here thank mard e momin sympathy

Pajeet is a pajeet

Whether he is from North or South

Anyways Chinese got what they wanted. They had an option to capture more too since pajeet army was running to bhutan to save their life

Fearful of continued losses, Indian troops retreated into Bhutan. Chinese forces respected the border and did not pursue.

Tawang left at Chinese mercy

Elsewhere, Chinese troops launched a three-pronged attack on Tawang, which the Indians evacuated without any resistance.

Tezpur left at Chinese mercy

The PLA penetrated close to the outskirts of Tezpur, Assam, a major frontier town nearly fifty kilometres (30 miles) from the Assam-North-East Frontier Agency border.[36] The local government ordered the evacuation of the civilians in Tezpur to the south of the Brahmaputra River, all prisons were thrown open, and government officials who stayed behind destroyed Tezpur's currency reserves in anticipation of a Chinese advance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War

Mard e momin instead of running to bhutan at least killed 1300 pajeets in the Eastern sector as per your official figures. Killed 3 million bengalis as per your own propaganda.

I think we should have learned from the pajeets and should have burnt currency instead of defending our towns