Why do Turks Like Pakistan?

[Vinod2070]

People of Pakistan are culturaly and genitically more close to Iran, infect we are mixture of Arabs, Persians, central Asians and Turks.

Name of our language is 'Urdu' which means in Turkish 'Military' and that's how it evolved. We are decendants of Ottoman Army settled in this region.

RR, any comment on this? There goes your "Rigveda is Pakistani" and ancient Pakistani theory!

 

[roadrunner]

RR, any comment on this? There goes your "Rigveda is Pakistani" and ancient Pakistani theory!

Why should I comment on it? It's wrong. I don't believe it, and could disprove it quite easily, by quoting some facts. Let everyone believe what they want to, I don't mind. No need to disprove things all the time.

 

[Vinod2070]

Why should I comment on it? It's wrong. I don't believe it, and could disprove it quite easily, by quoting some facts. Let everyone believe what they want to, I don't mind. No need to disprove things all the time.

As I said earlier, your biggest battle is at home. To convince fellow Pakistanis of their roots and real history.

The battle with others starts later!

 

[IceCold]

Turkey holds an important place within the Pakistani society, people to people contact however i for one was seriously disappointed when a Turkish general delivered negative remarks over Pakistani Nuclear weapons. Being a friendly country and one with so much similarities should have avoided raising an issue that is already portrayed as a threat by west.

 

[Flintlock]

Name of our language is 'Urdu' which means in Turkish 'Military' and that's how it evolved. We are decendants of Ottoman Army settled in this region.

Urdu isn't your language. It isn't native to Pakistan, but to Uttar Pradesh in India.

 

[Flintlock]

To an extent there is no denying what you are saying here. But I think at least in the case of Pakistan-Turkey relations, it is not the case of "either religion or enemy of my enemy". I think I have tried to explain the other alternate reasons for this relationship and as such this particular affinity is an exception to the usual case as pointed out by you.

In terms of Iran-Pakistan relations, they were excellent in the times of the shah. People-to-people relations continue to be excellent and the sentiments of the Pakistani street about Iranians are extremely positive however at the diplomatic level there is indeed a disconnect (however that disconnect exists between most other Muslim countries and the Iranian leadership).

Well, obviously other factors are involved, religion can't be the sole deciding factor.
However, it does help when the people share a common worldview.

As the proverb goes "Birds of a feather flock together".

So democracies stick together, Commies stick together etc.....

In case of Turkey, I did learn about the Khilafat movement in our history books, which led to parallel protests in India against British imperial rule. In our books it was extolled as the great movement which brought Hindus and Muslims together, though I suspect the truth is far less romantic.

BTW was there a global stir during the Islamic Revolution in Iran? I doubt it somehow.

Batman, as much as you'd like to deny it, there is a constant power struggle between the various Islamic factions in the middle east namely the Shias and Sunnis, with the Sufis caught in between. This is the major hurdle to cross if you are looking for muslim unity.
This is also the reason why Iran and Iraq have bad relations, and probably the reason why Iran favours India (though I suspect it also has something to do with the historical links between Iran and India)

Often, it boils down to personalities. If say the leader of Iran and Pakistan never really hit it off, then it might have led to bad feelings, and eventually bad diplomatic relations.

As far as Bangladesh India relations are concerned, the trouble started when Mujibur Rehman was assassinated and a pro-Islamist military government came to power. These guys were quite anti-Hindu, for nothing more than theological reasons, which led to all the bitterness.

 

[Majnun]

Flintlock, it looks like all your posts are calculated to insult.

Basically, Pakistanis and Turks are brothers, many Pakistanis have Turkish roots, Urdu, our national language, comes from a Turkish word for Army, from 1919-1923, we supported the Caliph, then we supported Ataturk and the Ankara government. Turkey always sides with Pakistan and Pakistan does the same for Turkey.
Even now, Turkey supports us over Kashmir, we support them over Cyprus.
And this shows just a little of how we support and love each other.
We are brothers and extremely close.
Pakistan Zindabad
Turkey Zindabad

 

[BATMAN]

As I said earlier, your biggest battle is at home. To convince fellow Pakistanis of their roots and real history.

The battle with others starts later!

This is not any battel or reason for any battel.
You have to learn respect others view and that's what RR is trying to tell you but you are acting as impossible dude to work on.

Now comming back to where I left.
I even claim that even land under our feet is not same, your part of land in history was not connected with present Pakistani land.
Before refusing our ethnic composure delete your hateful history books, where you describe revenge for Muslim rulers and their siblings setteled in Pakistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

This is not any battel or reason for any battel.
You have to learn respect others view and that's what RR is trying to tell you but you are acting as impossible dude to work on.

Now comming back to where I left.
I even claim that even land under our feet is not same, your part of land in history was not connected with present Pakistani land.
Before refusing our ethnic composure delete your hateful history books, where you describe revenge for Muslim rulers and their siblings setteled in Pakistan.

Batman, you are right. We all should respect the others views, without necessarily agreeing. There is a big disconnect between what you claim and what RR claims. Obviously one of you has to be wrong.

In fact I have seen most of your posts having compulsive hatred for India. And you claim Indian history books to be full of hatred! Indians books are actually too sanitized in trying to appease all communities and gloss over the atrocities that were committed during the Muslim rule. There is not even a reference to the razing of the Somanath temple and the countless other places of worship, the forced conversion in Kashmir and other places and the subsequent murder of Guru Teg Bahadur in the most inhuman way and so much other stuff. There is no reference to the "But Shikan par excellence" either. It is all airbrushed away by the commie historians like Irfan Habib and Romila Thapar.

Now let me show you what your history books are teaching:

Curriculum of hate
By Dr Farrukh Saleem
Afghanistan, Algeria, Chad, Egypt, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sudan, Somalia, Tunisia, Turkey, Yemen, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, Syria, UAE, Sierra Leone, Bangladesh, Gabon, Guinea-Bissau, Uganda, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Comoros, Iraq, Maldives, Djibouti, Benin, Brunei, Nigeria, Azerbaijan, Albania, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Mozambique, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Suriname, Togo, Guyana and Côte d'Ivoire are all Muslim-majority states. Can you name the one -- and the only -- Muslim-majority state where Muslims blew up the Danish embassy killing at least eight other Muslims?

Why, why Pakistan? I don't have all the answers, and I am sure no one does. But, please have a look at what the Punjab Textbook Board is teaching eleven-year old Pakistanis. Here is a paragraph from the Social Studies textbook for Class 7, page 43 (written by Professor Dr M H Bokhari and Syed Hassan Tahir):

"European nations have been working during the past three centuries, through conspiracies on naked aggression to subjugate the countries of the Muslim world."

Here is a paragraph that was not part of the previous year's Pakistan Studies but has been inserted in the textbook for the current academic year. This text was written by Muhammad Hussain Chaudhry, Ali Iqtadar Mirza, Sheikh Anees, Rai Faiz Ahmad Kharal, Syed Abbas Haidar and Dr Qais. This is for students of Class 9 and appears on page 3:

"The economic system of (the) west was creating unsolvable problems and had failed to do justice with the people."

Thirteen- and fourteen-year-old students of Pakistan Studies are being taught that "one of the reasons of the downfall of the Muslims in the sub-continent was the lack of the spirit of jihad (Class 9-10; Pakistan Studies, page 7)."

Imagine; thirteen-year-old Pakistanis are being taught that "In Islam jihad is very important…..The person who offers his life never dies….All the prayers nurture one's passion of jihad (Class 9-10; Pakistan Studies, page 10)."

Look at what Dr Sultan Khan, Muhammad Farooq Malik, Rai Faiz Ahmad Kharal, Muhammad Hussain Chaudhry and Khadim Ali Khan are teaching sixteen-year-old Pakistanis: "Always keep oneself ready to sacrifice one's life and property is jihad…..The basic purpose of all submissions and jihad is to keep oneself follower of the good will of Allah Almighty (Class 12; Pakistan Studies, page 4)."

At the tender age of 10, Pakistani students are discovering what the British had done to them. "The British sent rare books from these libraries to England. Thus the British ruined the Muslim schools. They did not want that Islam should spread (Class 6; Social Studies, page 99)." This text was scripted and translated by Professor Mian Muhammed Aslam, Professor Muhammed Farooq Malik and Qazi Sajjad Ahmed.

Look at the remarkable breakthrough achieved by of our learned Professor Dr M H Bokhari and Syed Hassan Tahir. In a total of 36 words, the duo has managed to capture the cause of the crusades: "History has no parallel to the extremely kind treatment of the Christians by the Muslims. Still the Christian kingdoms of Europe were constantly trying to gain control of Jerusalem. This was the cause of the crusades (Class 7; Social Studies, page 25)."

It seems as if our ministry of education is grooming our children for death rather than for life. The examples quoted above are all out of our federal ministry of education's curriculum designed by the curriculum wing. I agree that nine-, ten- and eleven-year-old students after reading these textbooks are not going to go and blow themselves up but the federal ministry of education is certainly creating a thoroughly militarized society. In that sense, our curriculum appears to have been deliberately designed to facilitate the usurpation of genuine educational space by forces of hate, violence and that of extremism. What we have is a primary and secondary school environment consciously manufactured to nurture terror, promote prejudice and breed extremism.

Our 'Curriculum of hate' is, hopefully, not producing suicide bombers but it is definitely breeding closet bombers who wholeheartedly support the ideals of suicide bombers being produced elsewhere. In essence, the two -- suicide bombers and closet bombers -- have a strange symbiotic relationship whereby the parasite cannot survive without a receptive host. And, the receptive host is all around us -- courtesy the ministry of education, government of Pakistan. Why is our ministry of education so bent upon preparing our kids for death and not for life?



The writer is an Islamabad-based freelance columnist. Email: farrukh15@hotmail.com

Link: The News International - No. 1 English Newspaper from Pakistan - Saturday, December 30, 1899

It is universally acknowledged (even by moderate Pakistanis) that many of Pakistan's problems are a result of this curriculum of hare. I can see many example right here on this forum.

 

[IceCold]

Batman, you are right. We all should respect the others views, without necessarily agreeing. There is a big disconnect between what you claim and what RR claims. Obviously one of you has to be wrong.

In fact I have seen most of your posts having compulsive hatred for India. And you claim Indian history books to be full of hatred! Indians books are actually too sanitized in trying to appease all communities and gloss over the atrocities that were committed during the Muslim rule. There is not even a reference to the razing of the Somanath temple and the countless other places of worship, the forced conversion in Kashmir and other places and the subsequent murder of Guru Teg Bahadur in the most inhuman way and so much other stuff. There is no reference to the "But Shikan par excellence" either. It is all airbrushed away by the commie historians like Irfan Habib and Romila Thapar.

Now let me show you what your history books are teaching:



Link: The News International - No. 1 English Newspaper from Pakistan - Saturday, December 30, 1899

It is universally acknowledged (even by moderate Pakistanis) that many of Pakistan's problems are a result of this curriculum of hare. I can see many example right here on this forum.

This is just one mans opinion and it can easily be countered as his word against mine. You on the other hand as usual only highlight the parts that suit your argument to show how rouge Pakistan as a state is. Very typical. Now tell me if we are teaching our students about the in justification done by the West it does not necessarily mean we are telling them to blow themselves up. If that would have been the case then one would have also witnessed suecide bombers from Punjab as well since you mentioned textbook course of Punjab, going into other areas to blow themselves up. Our generation needs to learn that we cannot rely on anyone then our selves and therefore should try to stand on our very own two feats. How exactly is that wrong? Author is very naive in his assessment. US has double standards all over the world. For e.g it likes to shout about democracy in countries like Pakistan, China as well but at the same time is supporting military regime in Egypt because that serves interest. So telling our future generation about these double standards is to actually make them aware so that they do no commit the same mistake that their ancestors did and resulted in the break up of Pakistan.

 

[muse]

The thread is about why Turks like Pakistanis - why this should bug some indian is beyond me - anyway, lets get back to the thread

 

[Vinod2070]

The thread is about why Turks like Pakistanis - why this should bug some indian is beyond me - anyway, lets get back to the thread

If the reference included me, rest assured, I am not bugged at all. I am happy to see the good relationship.

I would want that some day our two countries also enjoy the same brotherly relations.

Till then, enjoy the Turkish delights.

 

[Vinod2070]

This is just one mans opinion and it can easily be countered as his word against mine. You on the other hand as usual only highlight the parts that suit your argument to show how rouge Pakistan as a state is. Very typical. Now tell me if we are teaching our students about the in justification done by the West it does not necessarily mean we are telling them to blow themselves up. If that would have been the case then one would have also witnessed suecide bombers from Punjab as well since you mentioned textbook course of Punjab, going into other areas to blow themselves up. Our generation needs to learn that we cannot rely on anyone then our selves and therefore should try to stand on our very own two feats. How exactly is that wrong? Author is very naive in his assessment. US has double standards all over the world. For e.g it likes to shout about democracy in countries like Pakistan, China as well but at the same time is supporting military regime in Egypt because that serves interest. So telling our future generation about these double standards is to actually make them aware so that they do no commit the same mistake that their ancestors did and resulted in the break up of Pakistan.

May be we will get a chance to discuss this is another thread on this topic. No point in going too much off-track.

Till then enjoy the warm relations with Turkey. Good for you. Is the relationship more at the emotional level or has other dimensions too like trade, educational, scientific, economic, defence etc.

 

[IceCold]

May be we will get a chance to discuss this is another thread on this topic. No point in going too much off-track.

I would like to hear from you on this one Vinod.

 

[turk1453]

turk=pakistan
pakistan=turk
two nation one heart
do you understand me?