Why can't a good Muslim be a good American/British?

[Urbanized Greyhound]

^ Dude I agree with everything you said and trust me majority Muslims protested in peaceful and civilised manner the ways you mentioned in your post but as i said before peaceful majority and peaceful protest don't get the attention of media and peoples but you will see the pictures of few angry emotional individuals with weird slogan in every single newspaper.

Again question is : Did pastor got the punishment for his proactive hate crime? Did hate and bigot act of pastor was according to western principles? agree angry emotional reaction is wrong but the cause of this reaction need to be eliminated as well

Yes you are right . But was there a case , a petition filed in the courts by any American muslim citizen ? I dont know much about the legal system in the states but in India any concerned citizen can file a petition in the supreme court against anything ranging from a disrespect of the national flag by a prominent personality, to disrespect of a national figure or disrespect of a religious book. There are laws against disrespect and hurting sentiments ....


If there are no laws of that sort i.e disrespect and disregard of sentiment is allowed under the guise of " freedom of thought and expression " then I suppose muslims are within their rights to protest that way , which will make you right. But then its the west which is far from ideal and the westerners will adopt practices that gloss over their mistakes and make the immigrants suffer. Either way since they are immigrants , they have to put up with it while the western wrongdoers get away easily . That is part of their privilege , being in their own country.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

The more open-to-education among you might find this lecture VERY edifying:

I don't have the unfragmented-video link. Please bear with having to click six times for the next segment.

 

[pmukherjee]

^ Dude I agree with everything you said and trust me majority Muslims protested in peaceful and civilised manner the ways you mentioned in your post but as i said before peaceful majority and peaceful protest don't get the attention of media and peoples but you will see the pictures of few angry emotional individuals with weird slogan in every single newspaper.

Again question is : Did pastor got the punishment for his proactive hate crime? Did hate and bigot act of pastor was according to western principles? agree angry emotional reaction is wrong but the cause of this reaction need to be eliminated as well

The answer is no. But then, do two wrongs make a right? This Pastor guy should be made to stop, I don't understand how he goes on and on. All I can say is that the solution has to be found within the laws of the land and not outside it.

Regards.

 

[nightcrawler]

It is not about peaceful expressions but about the CONTENTS of those expressions. Put it this way...How would you like it if I express myself thus: 'I am going to rape your daughter.' Did I DO anything other than verbalizing what I want? But if you feel justified in hostility towards me for merely expressing something so morally outrageous, then you should have no problems understanding why so many non-muslims are hostile towards those signs that say those dreadful things.

You may be right if such expressions came only from our side. Mind I f you tell what are these & where do they come from

 

[FreekiN]

Advocating murder is not protesting. Derp.

 

[Khalistan_Zindabad]

These are two completely different scenarios. One is American, the other is British. The two are worlds apart.
The North American attitude is generally quite open and accepting, they interact with Muslims or any culture or religion very easily. And Muslims manage to fit in much easier there. This has become a little strained after 9/11, but the relationship is still generally quite warm and open. I think this is because North America is already a land of immigrants, and also, as the Economist puts it, even when you have a problem with someone of some background, everyone has an Aunt Susan, of some other faith or background, or a friend Al.
Europe, on the other hand, well, to be quite frank, they have always had a history of racism. This is particularly common in Britain. They have always had a closed culture, where outsiders are generally viewed with suspicion and treated with some hostility. European societies are more homogeneous and less welcoming to outsiders therefore. They have their own culture and practices and are happy with them, they don't want change. And recently, as the economic situation has gotten worse, outright racism has been on the rise.

Well said. This sums it up.

---------- Post added at 08:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------

Advocating murder is not protesting. Derp.

what the hell is derp? speak english you transvestite moron.

 

[Kaniska]

You are right that economics crisis also contributed towards narrow minded and racism in Britian as there is perception that foreigners took over all their jobs. I think American are much more ignorant than European peoples as i know many peoples in USA who thought Sikhs are Muslims because they keep beard and wear turban lol. Again the knowledge which American get about islam is through western media which is bias most of the time and portray Islam as threat to western world. The media usually only paints Muslims as terrorists and fundamentalists, never portraying the truth that the vast majority of them are peaceful. This serves to affect public perception about them. In the minds of the public "a few bad apples" have truly spoiled the whole.

Discrimination against Muslims is particularly bad in France where being named Ali or Mohammad could render you permanently unemployable. The Union's European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) released a report. It pointed out that the chance of people with a Maghrebi name getting a job interview is five times less than people with a purely french name. It is also not easy to integrate with a society that refuses to interview you for a job and views you as a potential problem or a walking time bomb



I don't think there is always a clash between nationally vs religion. When peoples are free to practice their religion in their private lives and religion is only limited to their personal life then there should not be a clash.


I think asking to implement sharia law in Uk is not logical and sane act and i have not seen any movement or practical struggle of Muslims for implementation of sharia law in uk or there is not any movement to bring Islam in Britain government policies . it’s impossible even if two or three Muslims demand for it
Muslims are integrated not less than Hindus, Sikhs or peoples of other faiths. Hindus and sikks also have got their own communities within uk and they also practice their cultural and religious festivals but as i said these things don’t restrict the freedom of others British peoples . Integration should not mean that give up your heritage or culture, food, dress etc These are all your personal choices which don’t affect others. You see cultures cannot be mixed willy nilly as cultures are the result of thousands of years of natural selection

Do what?
Would you care to elaborate?

Just want to make some few points as most of the people have already explained.
- I have seen most of the Muslim feels proud to identify himself with religion 1st and then the nation.So when the intrest of the nation collides with intrest of the religion, then obviously the nation who is hosting these immigrants they will be irritated. It applies to both Indians,Hindus and Muslims...
And that point of time racism starts...And the funniest thing the the people who complains about the racism...they are the most racist and intolerant people ...(This applied to people from both india and pakistan..)..Still in our countries we dont treat our own people with respect and we expect that foreign people will give you respect and every thing ...and immigrants are so shameless that they start demanding for it.....
As long as religion takes precedence over nation/nationality, this racism/islamaphobia..etc...this situation will exists....

 

[FreekiN]

what the hell is derp? speak english you transvestite moron.

>User banned permanently

Good riddance

 

[notsuperstitious]

The answer is no. But then, do two wrongs make a right? This Pastor guy should be made to stop, I don't understand how he goes on and on. All I can say is that the solution has to be found within the laws of the land and not outside it.

Regards.

Don't forget the religious right does not exactly evoke a positive reaction from the media (except media owned by these people) too, to that extent the religious right is also hated by many.

Hence tha pastor example is not correct, also because all these muslims protesters also do not get prosecuted, same as the pastor.

I don't know why the poster brought in the pastor in the first place, it only weakens his argument.

 

[relativiti]

Protesting is not a prehistoric law. If someone can burn a copy of the Qur'an and get away with it citing freedom of speech, what's wrong with a mere protest ?
It is easy to attack Islam and Hinduism because there's no ADL for these two so what else can members of those communities do except spread awareness ?

Ok what will happen if someone burns a holybook of a religion?? Economy drops, people get unemployed, world comes to an end, you die?? what ?? absolutely nothing happens. those who do these burning stuffs have a medieval mindset of the crusades, just ignore them and you will find their activity drops but instead you guys try to become holy warriors and knights ready to sacrifice yourselves in the name of god and do bombings and stuffs that makes islamophobia a reality and more condemnation and maligning of muslims. muslims' retaliation also shows the medieval mindset, common man can't you see the whole burning thing itself is an invitation of retaliation like a bait for fishing to change international view to anti-islam and muslims.

I would have been much happier if a cleric issues a fatwa that the man who burnt the holy book is a lunatic and muslims should always avoid him!! instead the clerics says if you are a true muslim bring his head to me in a silver platter!!

 

[modern_newton]

^^^ this is the most stupid argument i ever read in favor of mocking someone beliefs. what will happen if i insult/abuse someone very dear to you? economy will not drop, world will not end but my insult may drive you mad and crazy. you may punch on my nose if i keep abusing your dear ones. Yes for atheists, agnostics, non believers religious books have no values. no importance. they dont care if you burn these books or throw them in bin but peoples who have firm believe in these books they give honor and respect to these books more than their lives . Dont say stupid things if you have no idea about emotional attachment of peoples with these books .

 

[Developereo]

- Muslim immigrants tend to prefer self-employed small business instead of professional jobs. Since many of these businesses operate within the community, it limits interaction with the locals. This means that, for many Westerners, their only knowledge of Muslims comes from the media instead of first-hand, direct contact. The same thing was true about Indians until the recent IT-fueled migration boom; the old Indian migrants to the US were the "Patel motel' crowd, not professionals.

- Western media and, especially, governments actually love these Islamic extremists. It provides justification for stricter laws domestically, and also to keep troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. That is why these nutjobs are not shipped off to jail, despite advocating illegal activities.

 

[modern_newton]

izTo be honest western media or indians media always search for ani islam or anti pakistan news. they twist the facts in an attempt to convey the negative image of islam and pakistan. many muslims get the labell of terrorist even before the crime get prove in courts. if they dont feel guilty of terrorism in courts then media dont report any such news to clear the minds of peoples. Did western media ever tried to take the opinions of muslims about these terrorists and sucide bombers and showed their oponions to the rest of world. they never did because they know muslims hate these terrorist as islam is not religion of terrorism but religion of peace. they dont need peace loving muslims or islam. they need terrorists to make big stories, breaking news, hot debates etc

 

[fast and furious]

^^^ this is the most stupid argument i ever read in favor of mocking someone beliefs. what will happen if i insult/abuse someone very dear to you? economy will not drop, world will not end but my insult may drive you mad and crazy. you may punch on my nose if i keep abusing your dear ones. Yes for atheists, agnostics, non believers religious books have no values. no importance. they dont care if you burn these books or throw them in bin but peoples who have firm believe in these books they give honor and respect to these books more than their lives . Dont say stupid things if you have no idea about emotional attachment of peoples with these books .

I dont think the arguement was defending "hurting someone's religious belief".He called both the stimulus and the response(rather reaction) "medival".

The arguement just encouraged people to be practical rather than Emotional.
Now as far as insulting someone dear to someone, do it from your nation/home,as it happens all the time,Do not do it when you go to a foreign land looking for a good life.

You think a woman walking in short skirt ,smoking will have an easy time in India/Pakistan.
She will be judged even before anyone knows her name.So the reverse happens in the west as a beard,Burqa or a turban is/used to be a culture shock for them.

 

[Icarus]

Muslims who migrate to western countries try to keep their Islamic way of life intact in a completely alien environment. As their adopted society begins to take effect on them, they try to counter it's effects by increasing the role of religion(in the case of our discussion, Islam) in their life as a counter-weight for unwanted influences. Take for example Mr.ABC. He migrates from Pakistan to the UK. He sees women wear skirts and well, he can see them.......He thinks that if he doesn't press hard enough, his daughters might also pick up on this. Now he will make them wear a burkah when he never made them do so in Pakistan. This will further alienate him and his daughters because it is not "normal" to walk around in a burkah in the UK. This tussle between East and West eventually leads to Mr. ABC overdoing it and voila! A Fundee is born. It's basically the insecurities of being a minority culminating in a very visible form. They aren't going to hurt anyone, they'll just offend everyone.

When I was in England I went to the Islamic Centre is Notts to pray Jummah and a bloody Hizb guy outside was telling people that Taxi Drivers should not take unmarried couples, or people who want to go to pubs, clubs and casinos and that store owners should only buy muslim products so that their profit does not go to the helpers of the crusaders like Nestle!(WTF) I argued with him that you are living in England, all these things are a part of their society, they aren't forcing you to adopt them, so what gives you the right to snub the british for them? I told him that if it's such a problem then he should move back to Pakistan where these social ills do not exist. In the end when he couldn't hold his ground, he said I was a brainwashed "Puppet of the Kafirs" and refused to discuss it any further, like a true fundee.

However, not every muslim I met was like this, many people I met were able to find a balance between their religious life and their social life and are contributing members of the society.