Why are many Indian Muslims seen as untouchable?

[Spring Onion]

Yes.

A very unpleasant reality. Trust Windblower to rake it up.

how you doing Sir. do you ever check your email?

 

[Joe Shearer]

how you doing Sir. do you ever check your email?

Dear Ma'am,

I am so sorry for having replied so late. I have not checked my mail today, having come in a while ago. I shall check straightaway.

Sincerely yours,
'Joe'

 

[Spring Onion]

Please. It is not fair to claim that anything that we don't personally know about doesn't exist, or isn't true. Look up 'pasmanda' or consult Khalid Anis Ansari (look him up; he teaches at a private university).



I am afraid not.

well blame it on their roots not on their new religion even in Pakistan the feudal lords are practicing their own old rooted bias and cast based mentality.

Seriously.

 

[Spectre]

Yes.

A very unpleasant reality. Trust Windblower to rake it up.

Are you sure of this data? Is there even a mechanism to record this fact. I am just curious if the caste data is recorded for Non-Hindus in the census.

A mosque is open for all sects/ all tribes whereas personal privates homes of people well it is their own choice whom let in.'

Similarly in India - Untouchability is a crime. Anyone so aggrieved can take the judicial recourse.

 

[Joe Shearer]

For upper caste Muslims they might be, Hindus couldn't care less., A Dalit Muslim and a "normal" muslim is the same for them.

@Nimitam

Actually (my mistake) they are far from 'untouchable'. That still continues to be a peculiarly Hindu crime against society. It is true, however, that the 'pasmanda' are discriminated against.

Wait, 75% of indian Muslims are dalit-Muslims and hence are untouchables?

I am very sorry; I was so upset to see this in print that I reacted incorrectly.

No Muslim is regarded by other Muslims as untouchable. However, the 'Ashraf' do discriminate against the others ('Ajlaf'?) and there is a great deal of social barrier building involved.

 

[Spring Onion]

Similarly in India - Untouchability is a crime. Anyone so aggrieved can take the judicial recourse.

Indian Hindu religion advocates castism whereas under pressure your Indian modern governments have made it a crime but nobody is punished for practicing untouchability in India.

Whereas in Islam these pre-Islam practice is done away with.

The Last Prophet of Islam Muhammad (PBUH) in his last sermon on the occasion of Haj said that there is no preference of an Arab over non-Arab, white over black etc etc but the only preference is righteousness. He nullified all practices of jahiliya

 

[Joe Shearer]

If Dalit Hindus arent even allowed in temples; which religion will they turn to?

Then Hinduvati turds cry about a 'birth rate jihad' being waged in India; what a joke.

They are allowed into most temples. I am not aware of exceptions. Further, they have temples of their own as well. Just for the record, worshipping God is not very elaborate for a Hindu; he or she can do very well without a temple. One of these days, when I have the time, perhaps I could write about how an open-air, nature-worshipping religion became a temple-based one, and what the other variations in ways of worship mean in sociological terms.

If Dalit Hindus arent even allowed in temples; which religion will they turn to?

Then Hinduvati turds cry about a 'birth rate jihad' being waged in India; what a joke.

That's Hindutvavadi turd, or turds in the plural.

@Oscar sahab, you are troll sympathiser, you should consider your position before you stop getting called sahab.....i must be doing something wrong too by only posting an article written by an Indian and not even adding a POV to it.

@Oscar!

Is this true???????

it is strange because there is no such thing among Muslims. wonder how Indian Muslims can practice a Hindu tradition of untouchability.

There is a mistake here, perhaps in the report.

No Muslim is untouchable to another Muslim. They are, however, discriminated against quite severely.

 

[Parul]

I am afraid not.

A Hindu Dalit Embraces Sikhism Or, Islam - He becomes a Sikh Or, Muslim. His new Identify is Sikhism Or Islam. Not Dalit. Hence, I said that Term Dalit Muslim is Flawed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Nope the moral of the story is Muslims failed these Dalits, They accepted Islam and bought the idea of "everyone is treated equally in Islam" but are still being treated as inferior by other Muslims.

I never thought this day would happen, but I find myself in agreement with @ranjeet

He is precisely correct.

Then what about Buddhists and Sikhs?

Buddhists, no; Sikhs, yes. The Sikh Light Infantry are Mazhabi Sikhs; the Punjab and Sikh Regiments are Jat Sikhs.

 

[Spectre]

Indian Hindu religion advocates castism whereas under pressure your Indian modern governments have made it a crime but nobody is punished for practicing untouchability in India.

Whereas in Islam these pre-Islam practice is done away with.

The Last Prophet of Islam Muhammad (PBUH) in his last sermon on the occasion of Haj said that there is no preference of an Arab over non-Arab, white over black etc etc but the only preference is righteousness. He nullified all practices of jahiliya

How did you come to the conclusion that nobody is punished? Are you perhaps aware that there is a high proportion now approaching 50% of people in power who belong to lower castes? We have 50% of our police, bureaucracy and politicians all from the top level to the panchayat system who belong to lower caste.

All this has been done to empower dalits and to give them a stake at all levels of the society.

The architect of our constitution was a Dalit - meaning the man who literally framed our laws belonged to a Dalit class.

Now I am not saying there are no problems - Of-course there are, just like in US there are still lingering effects of racism, In Islamic world Shias and Sunnis are still slaughtered for belonging to the wrong sects but we are working to get through them and form a better society.

So while you and your brethren may use the opportunity to take potshots at our country and I cannot stop you, I can certainly tell you that we are doing a hell lot more to correct the situation then you folks are.

@Joe Shearer

 

[Joe Shearer]

Why are they included in the scheduled caste?

They are not.

That is one of their complaints.

A Hindu Dalit Embraces Sikhism Or, Islam - He becomes a Sikh Or, Muslim. His new Identify is Sikhism Or Islam. Not Dalit. Hence, I said that Term Dalit Muslim is Flawed.

Even among Sikhs and Muslims, there is discrimination. Sometimes as intense as in the case of Hindus. Your facts are incorrect. I say this with categorical knowledge.

How did you come to the conclusion that nobody is punished? Are you perhaps aware that there is a high proportion now approaching 50% of people in power who belong to lower castes? We have 50% of our police, bureaucracy and politicians all from the top level to the panchayat system who belong to lower caste.

All this has been done to empower dalits and to give them a stake at all levels of the society.

The architect of our constitution was a Dalit - meaning the man who literally framed our laws belonged to a Dalit class.

Now I am not saying there are no problems - Of-course there are, just like in US there are still lingering effects of racism, In Islamic world Shias and Sunnis are still slaughtered for belonging to the wrong sects but we are working to get through them and form a better society.

So while you and your brethren may use the opportunity to take potshots at our country and I cannot stop you, I can certainly tell you that we are doing a hell lot more to correct the situation then you folks are.

@Joe Shearer

How did you come to the conclusion that nobody is punished? Are you perhaps aware that there is a high proportion now approaching 50% of people in power who belong to lower castes? We have 50% of our police, bureaucracy and politicians all from the top level to the panchayat system who belong to lower caste.

All this has been done to empower dalits and to give them a stake at all levels of the society.

The architect of our constitution was a Dalit - meaning the man who literally framed our laws belonged to a Dalit class.

Now I am not saying there are no problems - Of-course there are, just like in US there are still lingering effects of racism, In Islamic world Shias and Sunnis are still slaughtered for belonging to the wrong sects but we are working to get through them and form a better society.

So while you and your brethren may use the opportunity to take potshots at our country and I cannot stop you, I can certainly tell you that we are doing a hell lot more to correct the situation then you folks are.

@Joe Shearer

We can get into very serious trouble if we abuse a Dalit, the laws are terribly strict and enforcement can be ferocious.

 

[Spectre]

We can get into very serious trouble if we abuse a Dalit, the laws are terribly strict and enforcement can be ferocious.

The crux of the matter Joe is full primary education and vocation training. We can have all the laws and enforcement but a Dalit who can barely write his name doesn't know the law then everything is useless.

Dalits don't need to be IAS (though that is important on a different level). Dalits need to be gainfully educated and employed.

Whenever I meet any politicians and on the off chance they ask for my inputs - I always circle back to education and skill generation. I once even a wrote an article endorsing Modi for his emphasis on vocational training but like much of his policies - they haven't translated really well to the local block level.

India has such a treasure trove of demographic divident but if we dont harness it then it will become a time bomb and unfortunately i forsee such a fate if the widespread disenchantment of youth leading to more and demands by even historically well off communities like Jatts and Gujjars is any indication.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

It is fault of Indian government which is hell bent on continuing cast system in India by allowing caste based quotas instead of eliminating untouchability


shame on Indians then. It is Your indian mentality not of Islam.

In Islam even a king and a servant can stand together for Namaz (prayer) at the same place.

Whatever... it goes out to state that every religion gets localized.. there is no single global template that can be copied and pasted to make religion homogeneous.. Islamist are trying to do that ... look how they have screwed up those countries are... Homogenous religion is a myth... and people who believe in it are fools. .. Look at Pakistan... There are Christian Dalits who were selectively chosen to do cleaning and sweeping jobs in Hospitals...http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/christians-required-only-as-sweepers/

 

[Joe Shearer]

Are you sure of this data? Is there even a mechanism to record this fact. I am just curious if the caste data is recorded for Non-Hindus in the census.




Similarly in India - Untouchability is a crime. Anyone so aggrieved can take the judicial recourse.

Yes, I am sure of this data from the writings of the Pasmanda leadership. There is no direct evidence that I have myself checked or obtained.

There is no mechanism to record this fact. For long, most of us believed that among Muslims, there was little or no discrimination, just proving that treating Muslims as a homogeneous bloc was insensitive and ignorant.

No caste data is recorded for non-Hindus, afaik.

The crux of the matter Joe is full primary education and vocation training. We can have all the laws and enforcement but a Dalit who can barely write his name doesn't know the law then everything is useless.

Dalits don't need to be IAS (though that is important on a different level). Dalits need to be gainfully educated and employed.

Whenever I meet any politicians and on the off chance they ask for my inputs - I always circle back to education and skill generation. I once even a wrote an article endorsing Modi for his emphasis on vocational training but like much of his policies - they haven't translated really well to the local block level.

India has such a treasure trove of demographic divident but if we dont harness it then it will become a time bomb and unfortunately i forsee such a fate if the widespread disenchantment of youth leading to more and demands by even historically well off communities like Jatts and Gujjars is any indication.

Words of wisdom.

I am delighted to read your post.

 

[Spectre]

Yes, I am sure of this data from the writings of the Pasmanda leadership. There is no direct evidence that I have myself checked or obtained.

There is no mechanism to record this fact. For long, most of us believed that among Muslims, there was little or no discrimination, just proving that treating Muslims as a homogeneous bloc was insensitive and ignorant.

No caste data is recorded for non-Hindus, afaik.



Words of wisdom.

I am delighted to read your post.

Joe I respect you highly but would just like to point out that statistically that data point is incorrect. Numbers don't add up. I don't need to see the census data to arrive at the conclusion that 75% of Muslims are not dalits.

Consider the growth rate of Indian Muslims post independence, growth rate of Hindus, base population of Hindus and Muslims, base population of Dalits as a subset of Hindu Muslims, migration to Pakistan and BD and lastly the conversion data (not available).

The figure based on off the hand calculations is likely to be in range 20%-50%. Remember this is the actual data point. Number of Muslims identified as Dalit Muslims is likely to be far far smaller. It is important to remember the distinction b/w Dalit Muslims and Muslims identified as Dalit Muslims. Since Islamic surnames are not evident of the caste.