Why American team has arrived in Pakistan?

[Laozi]

during the last government of Zardari, Pakistan backed out from its opposition to special nuclear privileges granted for India and due to that China also backed out. hence I mentioned them both. although Chinese decision is not purely based on Pakistani concerns but also sees the current US-American setup against its interests so it might disregard what Nawaz Sherif requests it to do. the current government has much at stake.. its leadership has business and pending visa requests in America and businesses inside India and can potentially face hardships and monetary loss if the Indian nuclear bid is foiled. this is something which is unacceptable for the Imperial democratic leadership of Pakistan

I don't think that Pakistani politicians will be keeping business assets in India. It is almost impossible for a foreigner to have assets in India in his name which will go unnoticed by various governmental bodies.
If these politicians do have assets in India then those assets are 'Benami' therefore they need completely trustworthy Indians who will return those assets to them in future.
Since politicians hardly trust anyone, I guess all their money must be in their own accounts in various Tax heavens across the globe.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The sad reality is that despite knowing all of this people still chose to defend them. The Sharif family and Zardari family they were traitors then, they are traitors now. People who have nothing in Pakistan, how can they be looked at to actually do for Pakistan. The PM is on a self created exile while Pakistan is running without a PM and an FM. This is the state of affairs and somehow this is all fault of IK.

of course fault of IK and GHQ

if you check out the leaked diplomatic cables then you will see how much the Americans despise these democratic leaders. saying how petty, selfish and self centred they are. the express pitty for Pakistanis that they have such shameless leaders who only come to see them to ensure that their money abroad is safe and they can continue to rule without any pressure from army in particular and other pressure groups like lawyers or opposition etc

 

[Blue Marlin]

of course fault of IK and GHQ

if you check out the leaked diplomatic cables then you will see how much the Americans despise these democratic leaders. saying how petty, selfish and self centred they are. the express pitty for Pakistanis that they have such shameless leaders who only come to see them to ensure that their money abroad is safe and they can continue to rule without any pressure from army in particular and other pressure groups like lawyers or opposition etc

do you know who pakistan needs as a leader.
this guy

 

[Irfan Baloch]

do you know who pakistan needs as a leader.
this guy

he is done, gone and history. with the assassination of Benazir two politicians benefited.. Zardari immediately who seized PPP and Nawaz sherif .. who made peace with Zardari which was impossible in the presence of Benazir

 

[Blue Marlin]

he is done, gone and history. with the assassination of Benazir two politicians benefited.. Zardari immediately who seized PPP and Nawaz sherif .. who made peace with Zardari which was impossible in the presence of Benazir

i thought he's back and want to run he even said this in an interview. the pti ppp pml are all useless

 

[New World]

I thought the foreign policy was run by the Generals????? What happened? Tire flat? So all failures are given to the Civilians but yet, the Generals rule. Where are those generals today to turn US's decision towards Pakistan vs, India? Wait, so now its a failure, so we'll put Civilians up front to take the blame. This is exactly what 90% of the countries of the world don't like about Pakistan, a military trying to always look good and making Civilians bad all the freaking time. Going back to the past 50 years!!

what are you taking about?? did i take any name?? i just say that NSG membership issue is not an issue in the eyes of Officials. that;s why they just Phoned to Other countries Officials to change their Strategic decisions for just a Phone call from Pakistan..

 

[RedRock]

during the last government of Zardari, Pakistan backed out from its opposition to special nuclear privileges granted for India and due to that China also backed out. hence I mentioned them both. although Chinese decision is not purely based on Pakistani concerns but also sees the current US-American setup against its interests so it might disregard what Nawaz Sherif requests it to do. the current government has much at stake.. its leadership has business and pending visa requests in America and businesses inside India and can potentially face hardships and monetary loss if the Indian nuclear bid is foiled. this is something which is unacceptable for the Imperial democratic leadership of Pakistan


that is true but how Tariq Fatmi can look eye to eye when his own son is awaiting visa/ nationality request in USA. and then there is the issue of that hard earned money saved in the west,

GHQ will get its bone to chew, F-16s were withheld for some reason.
the foreign minister of Imperial democratic of Pakistan Satraj Aziz has admitted that Democratic government shapes its foreign policies on the dictation of America and benefits and rewards follow on such compliance.

Yes.. with heavy heart I consider our democratic leaders as scum of the earth and sub human. GHQ is irrelevant and will be made irrelevant once that Dar will sell our nuclear capability for the Debt relief. you and other apologists will be telling us that we need to pray and believe in Indian benevolence and it will show mercy to us once we give up on anything which we can defend ourselves with.

just imagine how much money will be saved by cutting the military and giving up nuclear capability? all that money can be safely used in "Alhamdolillah projects" elsewhere on the globe.

hey. was wondering where you got this from:
GHQ is irrelevant and will be made irrelevant once that Dar will sell our nuclear capability for the Debt relief.
How can he sell our nuclear capability. Or as a matter of fact how can he be involved in such a decision. Do you actually think things are that bad that we will be so far in debt that uncle sam might say" hey, since you cant pay stop making nukes" or something on those lines? its a genuine question, I am not privy to any private knowledge related to military or government, just make do with what i read here and in the news, so would like some insight. How bad is it?
cheers

 

[Irfan Baloch]

hey. was wondering where you got this from:
GHQ is irrelevant and will be made irrelevant once that Dar will sell our nuclear capability for the Debt relief.
How can he sell our nuclear capability

sure let me explain

they is buying high interest loans.. and constantly printing money

the time will come when we wont have anything to pay for it and the creditors will be knocking at the door.

the offer will be made..

give up nuclear capability, reduce military, and obey India like Bangladesh does.

how? all because of us failing economically... (recall USSR? had missiles, and jets and bombs etc but no money to buy food for its people)

 

[livingdead]

Correction, I don't know why you guys lie so blatantly and add a political flavor to everything. The Pakistani politics is hardly the US's concern right now. India has blown past you and you guys are too busy making the GHQ look all mighty and the government all cheap, below humans on the planet.

A nation playing groups becomes groups instead of a nation as a wise-man said centuries ago!! So Pakistanis need to determine if they want to be ethnic groups or a nation!! The Reality is, if the Civilian system was kept since the early days of Pakistan, today, you'd have surpassed Australia!!!! But anyways, I'll ignore the propaganda. Here is WHY the American team is coming:

1) F-16's will NOT be offered!!!!!! I don't know why you thought that. They will be PAID by Pakistan if they want to pay in full. The US government's stance on that it pretty good. Gone are the days when the "Bone" was thrown at Pakistan. The GHQ needs to realize the reality, India, India-Afghanistan and India-China and in the middle, there is this little Pakistan. So you guys continue to internally fight and the future of Pakistan may be dark!! Sad when 330K military tries to run a 220 MILLION strong country and ignores its people's need. This is what you get (take a look at the past 50 years)!! The US's tone will be harsher and harsher by the day. The only think Pakistan needs is the economic growth that Civilians started (unless some fan boys on here want to give that credit to the military Ghost economists somehow )

2) NSG, absolutely. They will tell Pakistan to back off and tell China too. The bone will be economic this time and some other anti-terror weapons. Not the F-16's at all, unless Pakistan wants to start that discussion. I don't think ANYONE in Pakistan has a true sense of the reality out of General Raheel and a few senior commanders, which is why they met with the Civilian leaders. Otherwise, if the GHQ was THAT on its own and independent, why meet with Civilians???? But of-course, you and others with a strange mentality that actually hurts Pakistan, will try to portray that. A General can't produce a successful grocery store. Let alone the "Economy". A lesson that every fan boy needs to learn before its too late!!

3) Indian regional power influence will be asserted. Plus, the US will tell Pakistanis that by the US law, they are now obligated to allow India to use US defense systems, like Satellites, Afghan bases, etc, etc. Meaning don't eff with India because the US won't help Pakistan in a conflict. In fact, due to the strategic contract with India, all weapons by law may be sanctioned in case of a conflict with India as the US is doing strategic and defense partnership with them.

4) The US will advise against China and will push to limit the CPEC. Some benefits will be given to join the Chahabar port as the Americans through India, will be investing heavily in that port to counter China.

There will be NO discussions on the shitty and petty issues of the mighty "Military Vs. Civilians". The US has given up. I quote a Senator who, in a private gathering said (I was there), "if the Pakistani military wants to run the law of the jungle in a country with 220 Million poor civilian population, they can do so but there will be serious consequences globally as the Western world doesn't like constant military involvement hindering the Civilian and Human growth in that country". I think this one statement completes the picture I am trying to paint.

@MastanKhan : I know you have this situation understood a while ago. Any input?



I thought the foreign policy was run by the Generals????? What happened? Tire flat? So all failures are given to the Civilians but yet, the Generals rule. Where are those generals today to turn US's decision towards Pakistan vs, India? Wait, so now its a failure, so we'll put Civilians up front to take the blame. This is exactly what 90% of the countries of the world don't like about Pakistan, a military trying to always look good and making Civilians bad all the freaking time. Going back to the past 50 years!!

You don't understand. There is NOTHING Pakistan or ANYONE can do when the US has made the decision. The British PM can't do jack here if he was the best friend of Pakistan. India has blown past you to a semi-Super Power status. While on this VERY forum, you and majority of the members are too busy hating the current civilian government and praising foolish politicians or the military. Neither of which are capable to grow Pakistan like India.

This situation here is beyond anyone's control, the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits means nothing. The US is establishing equal level partnership with India. In the next 2-3 years, neither side will require Visas for business travelers. That should tell you a LOT.

The ONLY option for Pakistan and people like you, is to END groupings and ethnic politicians. A nation playing grouping and ethnic sects, will become just that, a wise-man said it centuries ago. And the only option includes the Civilian system growing Pakistani economy so she can proportionally expand her defensive posture against the NATO like India. If you think about it, just the US and India's alliance both in size and capacity, is larger than the ENTIRE NATO. I hope the point is taken.

I think you are overemphasizing India's importance to USA... all USA is doing is a fine balancing act... the balancing act need not be equal in our eyes, and it wont be. But US wants both India and pakistan as partner or at the very least have influence in both countries.
There is this idea among pakistani members that the negotiators from their side(whether faujis or civs) suck, and Indian ones are better. That is simply not true. When you come to bargaining table, I see what you brought to the table. At this point, Indians bring more and get more in return. Its not as if Indians get all these for free, at the very least they are giving up some of sovereignty(but pretty sure there is much more)

 

[MastanKhan]

Correction, I don't know why you guys lie so blatantly and add a political flavor to everything. The Pakistani politics is hardly the US's concern right now. India has blown past you and you guys are too busy making the GHQ look all mighty and the government all cheap, below humans on the planet.

A nation playing groups becomes groups instead of a nation as a wise-man said centuries ago!! So Pakistanis need to determine if they want to be ethnic groups or a nation!! The Reality is, if the Civilian system was kept since the early days of Pakistan, today, you'd have surpassed Australia!!!! But anyways, I'll ignore the propaganda. Here is WHY the American team is coming:

1) F-16's will NOT be offered!!!!!! I don't know why you thought that. They will be PAID by Pakistan if they want to pay in full. The US government's stance on that it pretty good. Gone are the days when the "Bone" was thrown at Pakistan. The GHQ needs to realize the reality, India, India-Afghanistan and India-China and in the middle, there is this little Pakistan. So you guys continue to internally fight and the future of Pakistan may be dark!! Sad when 330K military tries to run a 220 MILLION strong country and ignores its people's need. This is what you get (take a look at the past 50 years)!! The US's tone will be harsher and harsher by the day. The only think Pakistan needs is the economic growth that Civilians started (unless some fan boys on here want to give that credit to the military Ghost economists somehow )

2) NSG, absolutely. They will tell Pakistan to back off and tell China too. The bone will be economic this time and some other anti-terror weapons. Not the F-16's at all, unless Pakistan wants to start that discussion. I don't think ANYONE in Pakistan has a true sense of the reality out of General Raheel and a few senior commanders, which is why they met with the Civilian leaders. Otherwise, if the GHQ was THAT on its own and independent, why meet with Civilians???? But of-course, you and others with a strange mentality that actually hurts Pakistan, will try to portray that. A General can't produce a successful grocery store. Let alone the "Economy". A lesson that every fan boy needs to learn before its too late!!

3) Indian regional power influence will be asserted. Plus, the US will tell Pakistanis that by the US law, they are now obligated to allow India to use US defense systems, like Satellites, Afghan bases, etc, etc. Meaning don't eff with India because the US won't help Pakistan in a conflict. In fact, due to the strategic contract with India, all weapons by law may be sanctioned in case of a conflict with India as the US is doing strategic and defense partnership with them.

4) The US will advise against China and will push to limit the CPEC. Some benefits will be given to join the Chahabar port as the Americans through India, will be investing heavily in that port to counter China.

There will be NO discussions on the shitty and petty issues of the mighty "Military Vs. Civilians". The US has given up. I quote a Senator who, in a private gathering said (I was there), "if the Pakistani military wants to run the law of the jungle in a country with 220 Million poor civilian population, they can do so but there will be serious consequences globally as the Western world doesn't like constant military involvement hindering the Civilian and Human growth in that country". I think this one statement completes the picture I am trying to paint.

@MastanKhan : I know you have this situation understood a while ago. Any input?



I thought the foreign policy was run by the Generals????? What happened? Tire flat? So all failures are given to the Civilians but yet, the Generals rule. Where are those generals today to turn US's decision towards Pakistan vs, India? Wait, so now its a failure, so we'll put Civilians up front to take the blame. This is exactly what 90% of the countries of the world don't like about Pakistan, a military trying to always look good and making Civilians bad all the freaking time. Going back to the past 50 years!!

You don't understand. There is NOTHING Pakistan or ANYONE can do when the US has made the decision. The British PM can't do jack here if he was the best friend of Pakistan. India has blown past you to a semi-Super Power status. While on this VERY forum, you and majority of the members are too busy hating the current civilian government and praising foolish politicians or the military. Neither of which are capable to grow Pakistan like India.

This situation here is beyond anyone's control, the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits means nothing. The US is establishing equal level partnership with India. In the next 2-3 years, neither side will require Visas for business travelers. That should tell you a LOT.

The ONLY option for Pakistan and people like you, is to END groupings and ethnic politicians. A nation playing grouping and ethnic sects, will become just that, a wise-man said it centuries ago. And the only option includes the Civilian system growing Pakistani economy so she can proportionally expand her defensive posture against the NATO like India. If you think about it, just the US and India's alliance both in size and capacity, is larger than the ENTIRE NATO. I hope the point is taken.

Hi,

This is my input---Gen Raheel has blundered at many a steps---it is atypical pakistani habbit when they see a problem at first---they exclaim---don't worry---it is not that bad.

When he had the chance---he should have let Imran Khan pull the plug on Nawaz Sharif govt---but Gen Raheel did not asses the situation properly.

It was and is an open secret that Nawaz Sharif's loyalties lie with india.

Then came the Yemen crisis---the way Gen Raheel cowed down was despicable---pakistanis had their bets on the iranians---not wanting to know at that time that the iranians were back stabbing them all the time.

That was the moment to take charge---get the needed weapons and increase the number of troops.

When you make major changes and decisions in your life and for your nation---the destiny also re-aligns its gears---and it was shocking that Gen Raheel made that decision and stayed neutral.

The crisis as it appeared was a clear indication of what was to come in the future.

With their nuclear power---pakistanis are giants---but in mentality---they have PEA BRAINS---they have no comprehension and no understanding that in any conflict or power positioning in the arena---they are not going to be left alone just because they chose to be left alone.

As I have stated before---many a times---the F16 crisis is Paf's doing---Air Chief Marshall Sohail Aman had BAD strategy and Bad planning. How he got there was thru bad information and poor strategic analysis of the situation.

Bad information---people incharge did not measure the temperature of the U S congress and senate properly---.

Bad strategy---threatening the U S---" if you don't sell us we will go elsewhere ".

Bad planning---not being aware that their utility had diminished in the eyes of the U S.

Bad disclosure---publicly making statements that the chinese J10C's were not a good aircraft and chinese equipment was not that great---and the F16 was a god.

There can be no other worst idiot than the pakistan air force on this planet the way they handled this deal.

 

[Zabaniyah]

The Americans will be walking the Indian rope for a very long time. Not just in regards to Pakistan, but everyone in the South Asian neighborhood. These will have long term consequences.

May God help us all.

 

[Post Colonnial]

Hello All
If we laydown our guns now then take my worlds there will be no return this will be last nail in Pakistan's ....... I can't even type ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, May ALLAH Forgive me and Bless Pakistan and Pakistani Leadership with wisdom and knowledge.

Note: To all Pakistani elite and rulers please don't repeat mistakes of History (start from Bhatto ends on lol actually still continue in some shapes ).
Thank you all

I don't understand what you mean by 'if we laydown our guns'. Where do you have your guns drawn? Last I heard the Pakistani military was bombing inside Pakistan, sending coordinates to the US and allowing the USA to launch drones from Pakistani bases to kill inside Pakistan. Is that what you mean or something else?

 

[Thorough Pro]

For God's sake, no military ruler has harmed Pakistan more than this idiot

do you know who pakistan needs as a leader.
this guy

 

[Viper0011.]

Hi,

This is my input---Gen Raheel has blundered at many a steps---it is atypical pakistani habbit when they see a problem at first---they exclaim---don't worry---it is not that bad.

When he had the chance---he should have let Imran Khan pull the plug on Nawaz Sharif govt---but Gen Raheel did not asses the situation properly.

It was and is an open secret that Nawaz Sharif's loyalties lie with india.

MK - The topic I wanted your input, was where the US is in terms of Pakistan right now (in context with India). And why the American team is coming to Pakistan. Blaming past 5 decades worth of failures to run Pakistan by the Pakistani military and not getting shiit out of it, isn't really relevant here. I am actually disappointed in your response. I was hoping for the truth. Your response is like that company who instead of reporting Quarterly loss on Wall Street EPS of 42 cents compared to the last quarter, instead reported "Diluted EPS of .001 Cent Profit". Which was a Cent left after the 42 cent loss compared to the last quarter. Hiding or covering up doesn't hide the governance failures of the past 5 decades in Pakistan by the Military!! A sad reality that many on here won't accept as they are either from the military or connected with it through families, etc. The best thing anyone can do, is to be honest with their OWN country. Not favor one party or another who has historically done bad governance and abused the right of people's civil liberties.

Pulling the plug on NS or any Civilian elected government is a habit which contributes a LOT to where Pakistan and her reputation is today and the situation she's in. Had it been a civilian run country, things would not be where they are.

On Imran Khan, no offense, but is there really a comparison between the progress and the alcoholic rage that comes in microphones with a hangover ? You have got to find someone better than that. No offense. This is the second reason WHY Pakistan is in the mess she's in. Based on imaginary conspiracy theories, you guys are quick to call others Infidels, and Disloyal, etc, etc. NS had a business minded brain. The same brain that brought China to Pakistan. The Gawader was there for the entire history of Pakistan and China has been investing in ports and infrastructures since early 90's. If their "need" was that strong, they would've come begging a LONG time ago. But everyone, including the US, India and China, want to work with Pakistan while the country has a system. You bring a general in uniform, and watch the Chinese run after phase I and will turn the entire CPEC into a road connecting them to the port for the PN.

This part has been communicated to the Pakistani military about 4 times in the past 3 years since talks of CPEC begin. The days to throw away a democratically elected PM are gone and have become history. Which is why, the establishment in Pakistan, is forced to use useless, inexperienced and emotional people like IK.

Then came the Yemen crisis---the way Gen Raheel cowed down was despicable---pakistanis had their bets on the iranians---not wanting to know at that time that the iranians were back stabbing them all the time.

That was the moment to take charge---get the needed weapons and increase the number of troops.

If Pakistan had gotten involved with Yemen; India and Iran (already cooperating in Baluchistan) would've made that region like the East Pakistan. Right now, the Iranians support the Indians through second hand information gathering, etc so they won't ever be caught. But after Yemen, that would fade away and Iran would get directly involved. They have a lot of experience destabilizing countries and spreading civil war and terrorism. Yemen is a clear example and there are many other like Iraq, Bahrain, etc. So that one step was right and it saved Pakistan's integrity and structure in my opinion. Otherwise, another East Pakistan would have been in making.

When you make major changes and decisions in your life and for your nation---the destiny also re-aligns its gears---and it was shocking that Gen Raheel made that decision and stayed neutral.

Its amazing how you and some others think how much the military has influence. The military isn't the PM. Yes, the foreign policy is dictated by them but that's it. If so wasn't the case, the military would've kicked out the civilians long time ago. A General in the entire globe can't grow a Carrot farm. Let alone an economy. Gen. Sharif was "TOLD" to stay away from it. Both the Civilians and the Chinese told him to stay away from it.

You are WAY off the reservation here in terms of understanding. A country can't effing get 8 F-16's, don't have the funds to put a fence on her border or the funds to get 40-60 J-10 jets (we've been hearing about those for like 8 years now). You think Pakistan would be financially able to deal with the consequences of post Yemen????? A few billion from Saudi will go quickly. But next ten years of "insurgency" in Baluchistan will take MANY more billions and more than likely, the loss of that state as an "ex" province of Pakistan. The Chinese forced the same truth on Gen. Raheel.

Remember, if you tell the Pakistani military that the amazing salaries, packages, bonuses and expensive residential plots as gifts will not be there, the recruitment rate might drop by 70% and ONLY real Patriots will be left. No one can and wants to serve a country with their Children starving, period. So its beyond me how someone like you, can totally ignore the financial mess Pakistan's been in and can easily think getting into another conflict is actually good. You guys made the same mistake a few times before. A few billions don't last for long and then you as a country, lose ten times that money, cleaning up the mess that you got yourself into.......

With their nuclear power---pakistanis are giants---but in mentality---they have PEA BRAINS---they have no comprehension and no understanding that in any conflict or power positioning in the arena---they are not going to be left alone just because they chose to be left alone.

As I have stated before---many a times---the F16 crisis is Paf's doing---Air Chief Marshall Sohail Aman had BAD strategy and Bad planning. How he got there was thru bad information and poor strategic analysis of the situation.

Bad information---people incharge did not measure the temperature of the U S congress and senate properly---.

Bad strategy---threatening the U S---" if you don't sell us we will go elsewhere ".

Bad planning---not being aware that their utility had diminished in the eyes of the U S.

Bad disclosure---publicly making statements that the chinese J10C's were not a good aircraft and chinese equipment was not that great---and the F16 was a god.

There can be no other worst idiot than the pakistan air force on this planet the way they handled this deal.

Now out of this post, this is the part that I was looking for and I agree with it 100%. There is more, like you said earlier, somehow Pakistani military generals over the course of history, think closing eyes in front of a problem, will make it go away. Well, when you open up your eyes, the problem is still there and ONLY magnified ten times. This is where Pakistan stands.

The animosity you are seeing right now, is PURELY coming from the Pak military's dealings with the US. Thinking that the ONLY super power in the world that can actually do wonders for Pakistan in terms of military and economy, is SOOO dependent upon Pakistan that the Pakistani military generals think "they need us, they are not going anywhere" was seriously wrong and effed up. Now, the same US military will use India through Chahabar port and large Indian military columns (a few brigades) will be deployed to Afghanistan. So what's worst? Dealing with the US in normal relations, or bullshiiting the US with this insane idea that they are "so" dependent upon Pakistan that Pakistan can do anything or get anything they want to. When was the last time Generals run foreign policy and made strategy in dealing with foreign powers (including the super power)?? Wait......its STILL the case in Pakistan. Nowhere else Generals make foreign policies, establishment is in every country, including the US. But the foreign policy is based on national interests and the direction of the country and its growth. Due to that, friends and family members change as you'll align more with who'd help your country grow. When a Mechanic does Surgery on a Cardiac patient, this is the result. Its been over 50 years and the patients heart and body has been damaged and nothing's been fixed. That is the crux of the issue. The Civilians need to design foreign policies, make friends with countries and setup relationships. A general doesn't need to piss America off by visiting and asking to meet the US President who doesn't meet with his own generals unless absolutely needed.

I think you are overemphasizing India's importance to USA... all USA is doing is a fine balancing act... the balancing act need not be equal in our eyes, and it wont be. But US wants both India and pakistan as partner or at the very least have influence in both countries.

I know a LOT more about US-India strategic relationships than you can imagine. India will be the Second (or Third) super power (depends on who you ask and if they are pro-China, it would be the third, but in reality, it would be the second) .
Truth be told, the US administration wants to keep relationships with Pakistan but nothing close to how things were in 203-2004 (strategic relations). This would be more like how they deal with say Malaysia or Indonesia....don't hate them, but don't have special relations with them either, outside of some mutual business or some defense deals (fully paid by the buyer). The drone attack a few weak ago has meanings to it. If you remember, the POTUS had stopped the drone attacks on his orders a while ago. So it tells you how frustrated the Americans are on a double-game that they feel like they've been played against. At this point in time, if need be, the US can ask India to permanently station two three brigades inside Afghanistan (and the Afghans would LOVE that so a double win).

But if the Pakistani generals were wise, and didn't constantly think that they had the US by the balls........things would be different. This is one of the reasons why you NEVER allow military generals to create your foreign and strategic policies. These guys aren't designed for it, can't comprehend how to live in the world politically and mutually beneficially. Now shiits hit the fan, you'll see and hear people saying all kinds of stupid stuff to the Civilian government. All blame would go to the Civilian government when the military ran this shiit for 50 years. People here would go as far as saying that NS is on Indian payroll, just to push the blame away. But sooner or later, the pubic will know and this bad habit of intervention into a civilian system by the military will stop. I can see the writing on the wall.

 

[Rank]

Correction, I don't know why you guys lie so blatantly and add a political flavor to everything. The Pakistani politics is hardly the US's concern right now. India has blown past you and you guys are too busy making the GHQ look all mighty and the government all cheap, below humans on the planet.

A nation playing groups becomes groups instead of a nation as a wise-man said centuries ago!! So Pakistanis need to determine if they want to be ethnic groups or a nation!! The Reality is, if the Civilian system was kept since the early days of Pakistan, today, you'd have surpassed Australia!!!! But anyways, I'll ignore the propaganda. Here is WHY the American team is coming:

1) F-16's will NOT be offered!!!!!! I don't know why you thought that. They will be PAID by Pakistan if they want to pay in full. The US government's stance on that it pretty good. Gone are the days when the "Bone" was thrown at Pakistan. The GHQ needs to realize the reality, India, India-Afghanistan and India-China and in the middle, there is this little Pakistan. So you guys continue to internally fight and the future of Pakistan may be dark!! Sad when 330K military tries to run a 220 MILLION strong country and ignores its people's need. This is what you get (take a look at the past 50 years)!! The US's tone will be harsher and harsher by the day. The only think Pakistan needs is the economic growth that Civilians started (unless some fan boys on here want to give that credit to the military Ghost economists somehow )

2) NSG, absolutely. They will tell Pakistan to back off and tell China too. The bone will be economic this time and some other anti-terror weapons. Not the F-16's at all, unless Pakistan wants to start that discussion. I don't think ANYONE in Pakistan has a true sense of the reality out of General Raheel and a few senior commanders, which is why they met with the Civilian leaders. Otherwise, if the GHQ was THAT on its own and independent, why meet with Civilians???? But of-course, you and others with a strange mentality that actually hurts Pakistan, will try to portray that. A General can't produce a successful grocery store. Let alone the "Economy". A lesson that every fan boy needs to learn before its too late!!

3) Indian regional power influence will be asserted. Plus, the US will tell Pakistanis that by the US law, they are now obligated to allow India to use US defense systems, like Satellites, Afghan bases, etc, etc. Meaning don't eff with India because the US won't help Pakistan in a conflict. In fact, due to the strategic contract with India, all weapons by law may be sanctioned in case of a conflict with India as the US is doing strategic and defense partnership with them.

4) The US will advise against China and will push to limit the CPEC. Some benefits will be given to join the Chahabar port as the Americans through India, will be investing heavily in that port to counter China.

There will be NO discussions on the shitty and petty issues of the mighty "Military Vs. Civilians". The US has given up. I quote a Senator who, in a private gathering said (I was there), "if the Pakistani military wants to run the law of the jungle in a country with 220 Million poor civilian population, they can do so but there will be serious consequences globally as the Western world doesn't like constant military involvement hindering the Civilian and Human growth in that country". I think this one statement completes the picture I am trying to paint.

@MastanKhan : I know you have this situation understood a while ago. Any input?



I thought the foreign policy was run by the Generals????? What happened? Tire flat? So all failures are given to the Civilians but yet, the Generals rule. Where are those generals today to turn US's decision towards Pakistan vs, India? Wait, so now its a failure, so we'll put Civilians up front to take the blame. This is exactly what 90% of the countries of the world don't like about Pakistan, a military trying to always look good and making Civilians bad all the freaking time. Going back to the past 50 years!!

You don't understand. There is NOTHING Pakistan or ANYONE can do when the US has made the decision. The British PM can't do jack here if he was the best friend of Pakistan. India has blown past you to a semi-Super Power status. While on this VERY forum, you and majority of the members are too busy hating the current civilian government and praising foolish politicians or the military. Neither of which are capable to grow Pakistan like India.

This situation here is beyond anyone's control, the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits means nothing. The US is establishing equal level partnership with India. In the next 2-3 years, neither side will require Visas for business travelers. That should tell you a LOT.

The ONLY option for Pakistan and people like you, is to END groupings and ethnic politicians. A nation playing grouping and ethnic sects, will become just that, a wise-man said it centuries ago. And the only option includes the Civilian system growing Pakistani economy so she can proportionally expand her defensive posture against the NATO like India. If you think about it, just the US and India's alliance both in size and capacity, is larger than the ENTIRE NATO. I hope the point is taken.

If anyone have some spare time to waste or interested to listen bullshits... read above quoted paragraphs!