Why American team has arrived in Pakistan?

[New World]

Don’t oppose Indian NSG bid & Convince China to back out as well.

F-16s will be thrown as a bone to the military.

GHQ will be advised to back off from Nawaz Government

Future government will be guaranteed & Indian benevolence will be assured

i think American can get what they want...

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Hello All
If we laydown our guns now then take my worlds there will be no return this will be last nail in Pakistan's ....... I can't even type ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, May ALLAH Forgive me and Bless Pakistan and Pakistani Leadership with wisdom and knowledge.

Note: To all Pakistani elite and rulers please don't repeat mistakes of History (start from Bhatto ends on lol actually still continue in some shapes ).
Thank you all

 

[Hamza913]

That is not going to happen any more, and if happens, Military will reject it.

I wouldn't be so sure if I was you.

 

[New Resolve]

I think F16 issue is buried and there really isnt much common ground between the two countries.

 

[Mrc]

Fvck f 16s....

America is very clearly acting against pak interest...
And no we dont need US.... they might need us

.
Stop all cooperation and dialogue except for terrorism....
Full stop... no argument... let the things settle down and let americans choose their side first....

 

[Laozi]

You talk about friendships and you talk about "persuading China".
Why don't you make up your mind what you want to go through with and then we can discuss it, till then, refrain from attempting to derail the thread.

I have no intention of derailing the thread.

Pakistan and China are all weather friends. Whether Pakistan convinces or persuades China to block Indian entry into NSG club or Americans are able to dissuade Pakistan to pursue this issue with Chinese is yet be seen.

any confusion created by use of any particular word was not intentional, and is regretted

thanks and regards

 

[Arsalan]

I have no intention of derailing the thread.

Pakistan and China are all weather friends. Whether Pakistan convinces or persuades China to block Indian entry into NSG club or Americans are able to dissuade Pakistan to pursue this issue with Chinese is yet be seen.

any confusion created by use of any particular word was not intentional, and is regretted

thanks and regards

Appreciate that. Even if there was some mistake it takes some gut and a real gentleman to accept it on a public forum. Specially when the flags are shown right next to the name. Thank you!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

As per my understanding

Don't go to UN over drone issue (may be a reminder to GHQ over some agreement on drone strikes)

To discuss new Taliban leadership and future peace talks.

F-16 off course on cards
@Irfan Baloch
F-16s will be thrown as a bone to the military.

I believe you have better words for that.

I am sorry I dont do subtle being a member of a gunner's family (including AAK AAK) the choice of words is very limited and crude.

by the way throw a bone is not meant to degrade my Khaki cousins. its an expression urdu for which is طفل تسلی

 

[New World]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1119230/us-backing-india-pakistan-mounts-diplomatic-push-nsg-berth/

On Wednesday, Prime Minister’s Adviser on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz spoke by the phone with foreign ministers of Russia, South Korea and New Zealand as part of Pakistan’s continuing diplomatic efforts towards mobilising support for the country’s application for NSG membership.

What the Fcuking Hell is this.. They visit whole world without any business but when real issue is there and they just phoned them to convince them... Apart from Pakistan which other country just change strategic decision of just phone calls...

 

[Viper0011.]

Don’t oppose Indian NSG bid & Convince China to back out as well.

F-16s will be thrown as a bone to the military.

GHQ will be advised to back off from Nawaz Government

Future government will be guaranteed & Indian benevolence will be assured

Correction, I don't know why you guys lie so blatantly and add a political flavor to everything. The Pakistani politics is hardly the US's concern right now. India has blown past you and you guys are too busy making the GHQ look all mighty and the government all cheap, below humans on the planet.

A nation playing groups becomes groups instead of a nation as a wise-man said centuries ago!! So Pakistanis need to determine if they want to be ethnic groups or a nation!! The Reality is, if the Civilian system was kept since the early days of Pakistan, today, you'd have surpassed Australia!!!! But anyways, I'll ignore the propaganda. Here is WHY the American team is coming:

1) F-16's will NOT be offered!!!!!! I don't know why you thought that. They will be PAID by Pakistan if they want to pay in full. The US government's stance on that it pretty good. Gone are the days when the "Bone" was thrown at Pakistan. The GHQ needs to realize the reality, India, India-Afghanistan and India-China and in the middle, there is this little Pakistan. So you guys continue to internally fight and the future of Pakistan may be dark!! Sad when 330K military tries to run a 220 MILLION strong country and ignores its people's need. This is what you get (take a look at the past 50 years)!! The US's tone will be harsher and harsher by the day. The only think Pakistan needs is the economic growth that Civilians started (unless some fan boys on here want to give that credit to the military Ghost economists somehow )

2) NSG, absolutely. They will tell Pakistan to back off and tell China too. The bone will be economic this time and some other anti-terror weapons. Not the F-16's at all, unless Pakistan wants to start that discussion. I don't think ANYONE in Pakistan has a true sense of the reality out of General Raheel and a few senior commanders, which is why they met with the Civilian leaders. Otherwise, if the GHQ was THAT on its own and independent, why meet with Civilians???? But of-course, you and others with a strange mentality that actually hurts Pakistan, will try to portray that. A General can't produce a successful grocery store. Let alone the "Economy". A lesson that every fan boy needs to learn before its too late!!

3) Indian regional power influence will be asserted. Plus, the US will tell Pakistanis that by the US law, they are now obligated to allow India to use US defense systems, like Satellites, Afghan bases, etc, etc. Meaning don't eff with India because the US won't help Pakistan in a conflict. In fact, due to the strategic contract with India, all weapons by law may be sanctioned in case of a conflict with India as the US is doing strategic and defense partnership with them.

4) The US will advise against China and will push to limit the CPEC. Some benefits will be given to join the Chahabar port as the Americans through India, will be investing heavily in that port to counter China.

There will be NO discussions on the shitty and petty issues of the mighty "Military Vs. Civilians". The US has given up. I quote a Senator who, in a private gathering said (I was there), "if the Pakistani military wants to run the law of the jungle in a country with 220 Million poor civilian population, they can do so but there will be serious consequences globally as the Western world doesn't like constant military involvement hindering the Civilian and Human growth in that country". I think this one statement completes the picture I am trying to paint.

@MastanKhan : I know you have this situation understood a while ago. Any input?

What the Fcuking Hell is this.. They visit whole world without any business but when real issue is there and they just phoned them to convince them... Apart from Pakistan which other country just change strategic decision of just phone calls...

I thought the foreign policy was run by the Generals????? What happened? Tire flat? So all failures are given to the Civilians but yet, the Generals rule. Where are those generals today to turn US's decision towards Pakistan vs, India? Wait, so now its a failure, so we'll put Civilians up front to take the blame. This is exactly what 90% of the countries of the world don't like about Pakistan, a military trying to always look good and making Civilians bad all the freaking time. Going back to the past 50 years!!

You don't understand. There is NOTHING Pakistan or ANYONE can do when the US has made the decision. The British PM can't do jack here if he was the best friend of Pakistan. India has blown past you to a semi-Super Power status. While on this VERY forum, you and majority of the members are too busy hating the current civilian government and praising foolish politicians or the military. Neither of which are capable to grow Pakistan like India.

This situation here is beyond anyone's control, the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits means nothing. The US is establishing equal level partnership with India. In the next 2-3 years, neither side will require Visas for business travelers. That should tell you a LOT.

The ONLY option for Pakistan and people like you, is to END groupings and ethnic politicians. A nation playing grouping and ethnic sects, will become just that, a wise-man said it centuries ago. And the only option includes the Civilian system growing Pakistani economy so she can proportionally expand her defensive posture against the NATO like India. If you think about it, just the US and India's alliance both in size and capacity, is larger than the ENTIRE NATO. I hope the point is taken.

 

[-xXx-]

Correction, I don't know why you guys lie so blatantly and add a political flavor to everything. The Pakistani politics is hardly the US's concern right now. India has blown past you and you guys are too busy making the GHQ look all mighty and the government all cheap, below humans on the planet. A nation playing group becomes groups instead of a nation as a wise-man said centuries ago!! So Pakistanis need to determine if they want to be ethnic groups or a nation!! The Reality is, if the Civilian system was kept since the early days of Pakistan, today, you'd have surpassed Australia!!!! But anyways, I'll ignore the propaganda. Here is WHY the American team is coming:

1) F-16's will NOT be offered!!!!!! I don't know why you thought that. They will be PAID by Pakistan if they want to pay in full. The US government's stance on that it pretty good. Gone are the days when the "Bone" was thrown at Pakistan. The GHQ needs to realize the reality, India, India-Afghanistan and India-China and in the middle, there is this little Pakistan. So you guys continue to internally fight and the future of Pakistan may be dark!! Sad when 330K military tries to run a 220 MILLION strong country and ignores its people's need. This is what you get (take a look at the past 50 years)!! The US's tone will be harsher and harsher by the day. The only think Pakistan needs is the economic growth that Civilians started (unless some fan boys on here want to give that credit to the military Ghost economists somehow )

2) NSG, absolutely. They will tell Pakistan to back off and tell China too. The bone will be economic this time and some other anti-terror weapons. Not the F-16's at all, unless Pakistan wants to start that discussion. I don't think ANYONE in Pakistan has a true sense of the reality out of General Raheel and a few senior commanders, which is why they met with the Civilian leaders. Otherwise, if the GHQ was THAT on its own and independent, why meet with Civilians???? But of-course, you and others with a strange mentality that actually hurts Pakistan, will try to portray that. A General can't produce a successful grocery store. Let alone the "Economy". A lesson that every fan boy needs to learn before its too late!!

3) Indian regional power influence will be asserted. Plus, the US will tell Pakistanis that by the US law, they are now obligated to allow India to use US defense systems, like Satellites, Afghan bases, etc, etc. Meaning don't eff with India because the US won't help Pakistan in a conflict. In fact, due to the strategic contracts with India, all weapons by law may be sanctions in case of a conflict with India as the US is doing strategic and defense partnership with them.

4) The US will advise against China and will push to limit the CPEC. Some benefits will be given to join the Chahabar port as the Americans through India, will be investing heavily in that port to counter China.

There will be NO discussions on the shitty and petty issues of the mighty "Military Vs. Civilians". The US has given up. I quote a Senator who, in a private gathering said (I was there), "if the Pakistani military wants to run the law of the jungle in a country with 220 Million poor civilian population, they can do so but there will be serious consequences globally as the Western world doesn't like constant military involvement hindering the Civilian and Human growth in that country". I think this one statement completes the picture I am trying to paint.

@MastanKhan : I know you have this situation understood a while ago. Any input?



I thought the foreign policy was run by the Generals????? What happened? Tire flat? So all failures are given to the Civilians but yet, the Generals rule. Where are those generals today to turn US's decision towards Pakistan vs, India? Wait, so now its a failure, so we'll put Civilians up front to take the blame. This is exactly what 90% of the countries of the world don't like about Pakistan, a military trying to always look good and making Civilians bad all the freaking time. Going back to the past 50 years!!

You don't understand. There is NOTHING Pakistan or ANYONE can do when the US has made the decision. The British PM can't do jack here if he was the best friend of Pakistan. India has blown past you to a semi-Super Power status. While on this VERY forum, you and majority of the members are too busy hating the current civilian government and praising foolish politicians or the military. Neither of which are capable to grow Pakistan like India.

This situation here is beyond anyone's control, the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits means nothing. The US is establishing equal level partnership with India. In the next 2-3 years, neither side will require Visas for business travelers. That should tell you a LOT.

The ONLY option for Pakistan and people like you, is to END groupings and ethnic politicians. A nation playing grouping and ethnic sects, will become just that, a wise-man said it centuries ago. And the only option includes the Civilian system growing Pakistani economy so she can proportionally expand her defensive posture against the NATO like India. If you think about it, just the US and India's alliance both in size and capacity, is larger than the ENTIRE NATO. I hope the point is taken.

@Viper0011. If I am not wrong, not long before you were advocating F35 coming for Pakistan in near future and now this!!

What event or chain of event make your mind change so drastically? You were pretty much sure of further strengthening of US-Pak ties.

Is that hell bent undermining of Nawaz government by army and army fans make you think differently?

 

[Arsalan]

Correction, I don't know why you guys lie so blatantly and add a political flavor to everything. The Pakistani politics is hardly the US's concern right now. India has blown past you and you guys are too busy making the GHQ look all mighty and the government all cheap, below humans on the planet.

A nation playing groups becomes groups instead of a nation as a wise-man said centuries ago!! So Pakistanis need to determine if they want to be ethnic groups or a nation!! The Reality is, if the Civilian system was kept since the early days of Pakistan, today, you'd have surpassed Australia!!!! But anyways, I'll ignore the propaganda. Here is WHY the American team is coming:

1) F-16's will NOT be offered!!!!!! I don't know why you thought that. They will be PAID by Pakistan if they want to pay in full. The US government's stance on that it pretty good. Gone are the days when the "Bone" was thrown at Pakistan. The GHQ needs to realize the reality, India, India-Afghanistan and India-China and in the middle, there is this little Pakistan. So you guys continue to internally fight and the future of Pakistan may be dark!! Sad when 330K military tries to run a 220 MILLION strong country and ignores its people's need. This is what you get (take a look at the past 50 years)!! The US's tone will be harsher and harsher by the day. The only think Pakistan needs is the economic growth that Civilians started (unless some fan boys on here want to give that credit to the military Ghost economists somehow )

2) NSG, absolutely. They will tell Pakistan to back off and tell China too. The bone will be economic this time and some other anti-terror weapons. Not the F-16's at all, unless Pakistan wants to start that discussion. I don't think ANYONE in Pakistan has a true sense of the reality out of General Raheel and a few senior commanders, which is why they met with the Civilian leaders. Otherwise, if the GHQ was THAT on its own and independent, why meet with Civilians???? But of-course, you and others with a strange mentality that actually hurts Pakistan, will try to portray that. A General can't produce a successful grocery store. Let alone the "Economy". A lesson that every fan boy needs to learn before its too late!!

3) Indian regional power influence will be asserted. Plus, the US will tell Pakistanis that by the US law, they are now obligated to allow India to use US defense systems, like Satellites, Afghan bases, etc, etc. Meaning don't eff with India because the US won't help Pakistan in a conflict. In fact, due to the strategic contract with India, all weapons by law may be sanctioned in case of a conflict with India as the US is doing strategic and defense partnership with them.

4) The US will advise against China and will push to limit the CPEC. Some benefits will be given to join the Chahabar port as the Americans through India, will be investing heavily in that port to counter China.

There will be NO discussions on the shitty and petty issues of the mighty "Military Vs. Civilians". The US has given up. I quote a Senator who, in a private gathering said (I was there), "if the Pakistani military wants to run the law of the jungle in a country with 220 Million poor civilian population, they can do so but there will be serious consequences globally as the Western world doesn't like constant military involvement hindering the Civilian and Human growth in that country". I think this one statement completes the picture I am trying to paint.

@MastanKhan : I know you have this situation understood a while ago. Any input?



I thought the foreign policy was run by the Generals????? What happened? Tire flat? So all failures are given to the Civilians but yet, the Generals rule. Where are those generals today to turn US's decision towards Pakistan vs, India? Wait, so now its a failure, so we'll put Civilians up front to take the blame. This is exactly what 90% of the countries of the world don't like about Pakistan, a military trying to always look good and making Civilians bad all the freaking time. Going back to the past 50 years!!

You don't understand. There is NOTHING Pakistan or ANYONE can do when the US has made the decision. The British PM can't do jack here if he was the best friend of Pakistan. India has blown past you to a semi-Super Power status. While on this VERY forum, you and majority of the members are too busy hating the current civilian government and praising foolish politicians or the military. Neither of which are capable to grow Pakistan like India.

This situation here is beyond anyone's control, the Russians, the Chinese, the Brits means nothing. The US is establishing equal level partnership with India. In the next 2-3 years, neither side will require Visas for business travelers. That should tell you a LOT.

The ONLY option for Pakistan and people like you, is to END groupings and ethnic politicians. A nation playing grouping and ethnic sects, will become just that, a wise-man said it centuries ago. And the only option includes the Civilian system growing Pakistani economy so she can proportionally expand her defensive posture against the NATO like India. If you think about it, just the US and India's alliance both in size and capacity, is larger than the ENTIRE NATO. I hope the point is taken.

i will read the post in detail and reply to it if necessary but there was something in the starting lines that i just could not ignore, somthing i could not resist to answer to. YOU OF ALL PEOPLE ACUSING OTHERS OF ADDING A POLITICAL FALVOR TO THINGS? For God Sake man. YOU should the the last person to blame anyone else for such things. I do not ven need to quote all those posts of yours dear, you me and everyone around know perfectly well what i am talking about

I will surely ready this post and reply to it. May even agree with all you had to say but this one thing was just WAYYYYY out of context. Had NOTHING to do with the real world we live and breath in. Viper telling others about adding political flavor in things. WOW!!

Edit: Ok went through rest of the most and agree with most of the points and disagree with some. It is time for Iftar now so have to leave but will come and will like to add to this when i am back. Thanks!

 

[IceCold]

Don’t oppose Indian NSG bid & Convince China to back out as well.

F-16s will be thrown as a bone to the military.

GHQ will be advised to back off from Nawaz Government

Future government will be guaranteed & Indian benevolence will be assured

And that is why it is high time we tell them to Fish off. From we i dont mean the incumbent government but the military and the people of Pakistan.
If this government stops from opposing Indian NSG bid, we will still have people defending it and calling it IK fault however the nation has to decide for how long they are going to tolerate this sham of a democracy we have.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I have no intention of derailing the thread.

Pakistan and China are all weather friends. Whether Pakistan convinces or persuades China to block Indian entry into NSG club or Americans are able to dissuade Pakistan to pursue this issue with Chinese is yet be seen.

any confusion created by use of any particular word was not intentional, and is regretted

thanks and regards

during the last government of Zardari, Pakistan backed out from its opposition to special nuclear privileges granted for India and due to that China also backed out. hence I mentioned them both. although Chinese decision is not purely based on Pakistani concerns but also sees the current US-American setup against its interests so it might disregard what Nawaz Sherif requests it to do. the current government has much at stake.. its leadership has business and pending visa requests in America and businesses inside India and can potentially face hardships and monetary loss if the Indian nuclear bid is foiled. this is something which is unacceptable for the Imperial democratic leadership of Pakistan

Correction, I don't know why you guys lie so blatantly and add a political flavor to everything. The Pakistani politics is hardly the US's concern right now. India has blown past you and you guys are too busy making the GHQ look all mighty and the government all cheap, below humans on the planet.

that is true but how Tariq Fatmi can look eye to eye when his own son is awaiting visa/ nationality request in USA. and then there is the issue of that hard earned money saved in the west,

GHQ will get its bone to chew, F-16s were withheld for some reason.
the foreign minister of Imperial democratic of Pakistan Satraj Aziz has admitted that Democratic government shapes its foreign policies on the dictation of America and benefits and rewards follow on such compliance.

Yes.. with heavy heart I consider our democratic leaders as scum of the earth and sub human. GHQ is irrelevant and will be made irrelevant once that Dar will sell our nuclear capability for the Debt relief. you and other apologists will be telling us that we need to pray and believe in Indian benevolence and it will show mercy to us once we give up on anything which we can defend ourselves with.

just imagine how much money will be saved by cutting the military and giving up nuclear capability? all that money can be safely used in "Alhamdolillah projects" elsewhere on the globe.

 

[IceCold]

the current government has much at stake.. its leadership has business and pending visa requests in America and businesses inside India and can potentially face hardships and monetary loss if the Indian nuclear bid is foiled. leadership of Pakistan

The sad reality is that despite knowing all of this people still chose to defend them. The Sharif family and Zardari family they were traitors then, they are traitors now. People who have nothing in Pakistan, how can they be looked at to actually do for Pakistan. The PM is on a self created exile while Pakistan is running without a PM and an FM. This is the state of affairs and somehow this is all fault of IK.