Who Was The Best Fighter Pilot Ever ?

[SQ8]

No friend, the B52 has a lot of F4 fighters fly to protect
It is very difficult to fly access B52
It is similar to an aircraft carrier is protected dense ...

Nope.. three Viet pilots shot down B-52's.. one did a kamikaze mission.
These were night engagements.

 

[SQ8]

Contrary to movies most of the dogfights are very short, hit and run, you simply dont have a time for jetissoning. And also they were loaded with fuel which cant be jetissoned. What basically happaned is that low flying loaded with fuel and bombs Israeli jets were ambushed from above by Iraqi fighters. But even in this situation Israelis managed to shoot Iragi fighter and most of the jets escaped.

You are dilly dallying here, especially since records show that the Mirages were on escort missions for vatours.
The Mirage could still outrun the hunter..

The Israeli formation consisted of six aircraft. A section of four Vautours of No 110 Squadron was led by the Deputy Squadron Commander Capt Shlomo Keren in a two-seater, with Capt Alexander Meltzer as his navigator. The other members were Col Yehezkel Someh (Base Commander of Ramat David Air Base), Capt Yitzhak Golan and Lt Avshalom Friedman in single seaters[12]. Two Mirages of No 117 Squadron doubled up as armed escorts, each carrying two bombs; Maj Ezra Dotan led the pair, with Capt Gideon Dror as wingman.

This was an accomplished senior formation.
Yet they were bounded on by slower hunters and brought down

As Saif manoeuvred to get behind the Vautours, Samir called out, “Two Mirages behind you.” Looking back, Saif saw the pair about 4,000 feet behind, turning for them. In an instant, Saif decided to split his formation, with himself and Ihsan (No 2) going for the Mirages while Samir and Ghalib (Nos 3 & 4) went for the Vautours. Turning hard to the right, Saif cramped the Mirages for manoeuvring space, forcing them to pull up for a ‘yo yo.’ Reversing his turn, Saif noticed one of the Mirages still turning right, apparently having lost sight of the Hunters. Saif managed to turn inside the Mirage and started to catch up fast. At the extreme limits of range, the Mirage could not light up its fuel-guzzling afterburner, or else it could have easily out-run the subsonic Hunter.

So the mirages bounced the hunters and still did not jettison their bombs or fuel? Did they have a death wish?
If they did.. it was granted. I would be appalled to know that senior Israeli pilots were so inept as not to jettison bombs or fuel tanks when knowing the enemy is around and in this case sitting at the enemy's rear quarter..even if they could not light up their AB's they would have had the advantage of a faster and better climbing aircraft.

The plethora of accomplishments by the Israeli Air Force did not prevent a scathing indictment of the conduct of operations over H-3, in the post-war debrief. Col Eleizer Cohen, in his book Israel’s Best Defense alludes to it by stating, “The damage to H-3 was peripheral, and the losses – a killed pilot and navigator, two pilots captured and three aircraft downed – were heavier than at any other base[15].” Maj Gen Mordechai Hod, the Commander of the Israeli Air Force is said to have remarked that the critique of H-3 fiasco made him feel almost as if he had lost the war. Whatever factors may have been discussed during the debrief, there is little doubt that the Israelis were aware of the H-3 rout being the handiwork of a determined team, under the able leadership of a first class PAF pilot. That Mossad was ignorant of this fact would be under-rating the capabilities of a notoriously efficient intelligence outfit

 

[500]

You are dilly dallying here, especially since records show that the Mirages were on escort missions for vatours.
The Mirage could still outrun the hunter..

If light plane attacks you from above there is very little what u can do. Plus Mirages could not run away and leave Vatours for slaughter.

So the mirages bounced the hunters and still did not jettison their bombs or fuel? Did they have a death wish?
If they did.. it was granted. I would be appalled to know that senior Israeli pilots were so inept as not to jettison bombs or fuel tanks when knowing the enemy is around and in this case sitting at the enemy's rear quarter..even if they could not light up their AB's they would have had the advantage of a faster and better climbing aircraft.

You cant jetisson fuel which u need to return to base.

I really dont understand why shooting down one Mirage on deep bombing mission is considered as greatest achievement of all times

Vietnamese shot down dosens of superrior US jets with their outdated MiG-17. So wut?

 

[Windjammer]

If light plane attacks you from above there is very little what u can do. Plus Mirages could not run away and leave Vatours for slaughter.

The citation clearly indicates that while the Hunters were going for the Vatours, the Mirages were positioning themselves for an attack on the Hunters, hence no question of being pounced from above. And the second Mirage did leave the scenario for Vatours to fend for them self.

You cant jetisson fuel which u need to return to base.

I really dont understand why shooting down one Mirage on deep bombing mission is considered as greatest achievement of all times

Vietnamese shot down dosens of superrior US jets with their outdated MiG-17. So wut?

The bigger picture is the shooting down of three aircraft, two of much superior performance, within a six day battle period.

 

[500]

The citation clearly indicates that while the Hunters were going for the Vatours, the Mirages were positioning themselves for an attack on the Hunters, hence no question of being pounced from above. And the second Mirage did leave the scenario for Vatours to fend for them self.

Both Vatours and Mirages were loaded wit bombs and fuel, but once they were ambushed, Mirages tried to protect Vatours.

The bigger picture is the shooting down of three aircraft, two of much superior performance, within a six day battle period.

The bigger picture is that Israeli jets on deep srtiking mission loaded with fuel and bombs were ambushed by Iraqi fighters. Nevertheless Israelis managed to shot down two Iraqi fighters losing one fighter and two bombers.

3-2 is not a great achievement for ambushing force.

 

[Windjammer]

^^^^^^^^^

By repeating the same mantra, you are digressing from the actual topic !!......"Who was the best fighter pilot". ??

 

[SQ8]

If light plane attacks you from above there is very little what u can do. Plus Mirages could not run away and leave Vatours for slaughter.




You cant jetisson fuel which u need to return to base.

I really dont understand why shooting down one Mirage on deep bombing mission is considered as greatest achievement of all times

Vietnamese shot down dosens of superrior US jets with their outdated MiG-17. So wut?

Who said that?

And try telling that Viet guy here that his aces arent worth crap..

---------- Post added at 10:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------

Both Vatours and Mirages were loaded wit bombs and fuel, but once they were ambushed, Mirages tried to protect Vatours.


The bigger picture is that Israeli jets on deep srtiking mission loaded with fuel and bombs were ambushed by Iraqi fighters. Nevertheless Israelis managed to shot down two Iraqi fighters losing one fighter and two bombers.

3-2 is not a great achievement for ambushing force.

A win by a mile or a millimeter is still a win.

 

[500]

Who said that?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/12694-who-best-fighter-pilot-ever.html#post173959

A win by a mile or a millimeter is still a win.

Win, but given the the circumstances it could easily end 8:0 in favor of Iraqis, instead of 3:2.

 

[Desert Fox]

Here is the Serial Number and Name of both the Pakistani Pilot and his Iraqi Hunter and the Israeli Pilot and his MirageIIICJ, below proves my point that it is confirmed PAF pilots shot down IDF/AF without losing one of their own (PAF)

Pakistani Pilot: Flt. Lt. Saiful Azam
Aircraft type: Iraqi Hawker Hunter
Aircraft Serial Number: S. No. 702

Israeli Pilot: Gideon Dror
Aircraft type: IDF/AF Mirage IIICJ
Aircraft Serial Number Serial No. 6660

IDF / Air Force Aircraft Losses and Ejections by Aircraft Type-www.ejection-history.org.uk

Pakistani Pilot: Flt. Lt. Saiful Azam
Aircraft type: Iraqi Hawker Hunter
Aircraft Serial Number: S. No. 702

Israeli Pilot: Itschak Glantz-Golan
Aircraft type: IDF/AF Vautour A
Unit/Serial No. no. 14

Chronological Listing of Israel
Pakistani Pilot: Flt Lt Sattar Alvi
Aircraft type: Syrian Air Force MiG-21F
Unit/Serial No. Serial No. 1863

Israeli Pilot: Captain M Lutz
Aircraft type: IDF/AF Mirage-IIICJ
Unit/Serial No. No 5 Air Wing based at Hatzor

IDF / Air Force Aircraft Losses and Ejections by Aircraft Type-www.ejection-history.org.uk


Pakistani Pilot: Flt. Lt. Saiful Azam
Aircraft type: Jordanian (RJAF) Hawker Hunter
Aircraft Serial Number: No. 1 Sqn

Israeli Pilot: Capt Hanania Bula
Aircraft type: IDF/AF Mystère-IVA
Unit/Serial No. 116 Sqn

Chronological Listing of Israel

Jan J. Safarik: Air Aces Home Page

Chronological Listing of Israel





Saiful Azam's Iraqi Hawker Hunter

Read the full story about PAF pilots encounters with IDF/AF during the 1967 war

 

[Desert Fox]

In my opinion the best Fighter Pilots of all time were the German Luftwaffe Aces of WW2, no one even comes close to the amount of aerial victories they scored, some Luftwaffe pilots even shot down up to 300+ allied aircraft:

 

[Desert Fox]

And of course with 80 scored aerial victories during the First World War, The Number One Ace of his time;

Manfred von Richthofen; The famous Red Baron of the skies

 

[500]

Israeli Pilot: Captain M Lutz
Aircraft type: IDF/AF Mirage-IIICJ
Unit/Serial No. No 5 Air Wing based at Hatzor

IAF didn not lose any plane on 26 april 1974 and captain Lutz never existed.

 

[Desert Fox]

IAF didn not lose any plane on 26 april 1974 and captain Lutz never existed.

I'm sure you can prove that

 

[Truong Sa]

Nope.. three Viet pilots shot down B-52's.. one did a kamikaze mission.
These were night engagements.

I can't confirm exactly because I was not there. I only rely on the recognition of Vietnam People's Army for him. Of course he was supported by his teammates.
He also recognized several shot down some fighters and captured a pilot with fighter...

 

[razgriz19]

Iraqi Hunter aircraft flown by Saif-ul-azam during Israel-Arab conflict.
you can see the two Israeli kills, one mirage and mystere i think...

AND MM ALAM STANDING WITH HIS SABRE WHICH HAD 9 CONFIRM KILLS!!!!!!!!