Who has the strongest Land Forces in ME?

[cabatli_53]

Who is number 4 for indigenous SAM systems in middle east?

Turkey as of now is really lacking in the SAM department, looks like in the next 5 years some of the issues will be resolved but until a long range SAM system is acquired Turkey is vulnerable. Again Turkey is going about this with a long term mindset, the Turks could have bought all air defence systems off the shelf but instead decided to go indigenous. No one will attack Turkey anytime soon so there is not a big risk, Turkey's neighbors are either in chaos or don't have serious militaries.

Egypt can be number 4, since They have efforts on missile systems.
Turkey's Hisar family will be ready for mass production in 2018 but Hisar-U long altitude program will take longer. The U variant preperations are proceeding. There is a seperate ongoing tender/talk process to order foreign long altitude missiles.

 

[Neptune]

I think Israel still has the edge. This article is a good source.

Source: Business Insider

The Most Powerful Militaries In The Middle East [RANKED]

• ARMIN ROSEN, JEREMY BENDER AND AMANDA MACIAS
• Oct. 27, 2014, 11:35 AM
  
• 1,901,107
  
• 87

REUTERS/Umit BektasTurkish Land Forces Commander General Hulusi Aker and other officers gather around an army tank on the Turkish-Syrian border near the southeastern town of Suruc in Sanliurfa province October 6, 2014.

The balance of power in the Middle East is in disarray: A three-year civil war has torn apart Syria and opened up a vacuum for the rise of the Islamic State group; Sunni powers led by Saudi Arabia continue to face off againstShi'ite powers led by Iran; other countries are reeling from uprisings in the Arab Spring; and foreign powers are all taking sides.

Faced with this tense paradigm, every country in the region is building up its own military.

Jump to the rankings »
Indeed, four of the five fastest-growing defense markets in 2013 were in the Middle East, led by Oman — up 115% in a year — and Saudi Arabia — up 300% in a decade — according to IHS Jane's.

We have analyzed each country to rank the most powerful militaries in the Middle East. This ranking does not count foreign powers like the US or their support, though we have noted important alliances. After looking over state militaries, we also profiled (but did not rank) some of the increasingly powerful non-state military groups.

The ranking is based on a holistic assessment of the militaries' operational capabilities and hardware, based on our research and on interviews with Patrick Megahan, an expert from the Foundation of Defense of Democracies' Military Edge project, and Chris Harmer, senior naval analyst at the Institute for the Study of War.

Some countries with large yet incapable militaries rank low on the list; some smaller and technologically advanced militaries from stable states rank fairly high.

Others present analytical challenges that are difficult to get around in a ranking format. For instance, Egypt has an enormous military with little in the way of a recent battlefield record. Syria's military is diminished by three years of war, but it has been able to fulfill the Assad regime's narrow battlefield objectives and field an operational air force.

No ranking will be absolutely exact. But here's our idea of where things stand in one of the world's least-predictable regions.

View As: One Page Slides

Israel Defense Forces/Modified By Business Insider




No. 6 Egypt

Mohamed Abd El Ghany
$4.4 billion defense budget
468,500 active frontline personnel
4,767 tanks
1,100 aircraft

The Egyptian Armed Forces is one of the oldest and largest militaries in the Middle East. The Egyptian military has existed in its current iteration since 1952, and the military has played a direct role in Egyptian politics since the country's founding — current Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi is the military's former commander in chief.

The US has provided Egypt with over$70 billion in aid since 1948, most of which came in the form of an annual $1.3 billion military assistance fund established after Egypt and Israel signed a peace deal in 1979. Because of this assistance, Egypt has replaced a mostly Soviet-provided arsenal with US-produced arms.

Egypt has over 1,000 M1A1 Abrams tanks, many of which sit in storage and have never been used. Egypt alsocoproduces M1A1 tanks domestically. The Egyptian Air Force has 221 F-16 fighter jets, alongside a range of other US-provided aircraft.

But the military's operational abilities are highly suspect, and it has had trouble fighting terrorists and insurgents in the Sinai. It has discussed future arms purchases with Russia but only because of a falling-out with Washington over the summer 2013 military coup that put Sisi in power.

Key allies: The US and Saudi Arabia — although security cooperation between Israel and Egypt has picked up since the summer 2013 coup in Cairo.


No. 5 Iran

REUTERS/Stringer
$6.3 billion defense budget
545,000 active frontline personnel
2,409 tanks
481 aircraft

Iran has faced arms embargoes put in place by the United States since the 1979 Islamic revolution and the embassy hostage crisis that followed. In response, Iran has developed its own domestic military industry under the guidance of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps.

Iran has been building its own tanks and long-range missiles since 1992, as well as reverse-engineering its own drones. This means that Iran fields inferior equipment compared with many of its US-supplies neighbors — but gains crucial strategic depth in return.

It has an uninterrupted supply chain to its allies, like Syria's Assad regime. And it doesn't have to depend on the good will of an outside power to remain armed.

"Thirty-five years ago, Iran had no local production capability," Harmer says. "Now they build their own submarines and surface ships. Nobody in the Middle East does that, not even the Israelis."

Iran also maintains a number of US weapons that the country had purchased prior to its 1979 revolution, along with foreign weapons it bought afterward. Among these weapons are US-made F-14 Tomcats and Russian-built Su-24s and Su-25s.

Iran has been involved in numerous proxy conflicts, including funneling supplies and fighters into Iraq,Syria,Gaza, and Lebanon. The militant organization Hezbollah is largely an extension of Iranian foreign policy into the Arab Middle East.

That doesn't make Iran a major conventional military power, though. As Megahan says, the military is hampered by corruption and poor leadership, with regime loyalty often mattering more than merit among the officer corps. Iran has invested heavily in building its own weaponry, including ballistic missiles. It's all unproven.

"They try really hard to have an indigenous military industry," he says. "There not a lot of evidence to suggest that it's actually really going well."

Key allies: Syria, Shi'ite militant groups in Iraq and Lebanon, and Sudan.


No. 4 United Arab Emirates

WAM/Reuters
$14.4 billion defense budget
65,000 active frontline personnel
545 tanks
444 aircraft

The United Arab Emirate's Union Defense Force is headquartered in Abu Dhabiand boasts diversified military equipment from the US, Russia, UK, Ukraine, France, Italy, and Germany.

Simply put, it's the Middle East's rising military power. The UAE has bought new weapons systems, upgraded its existing ones, brought in American trainers and contractors, and instituted universal military service for males. It has been closely involved in the fight against ISIS, and it secretly deployed jets from Egypt to bomb Islamist militants within Libya without US support.

Megahan says that the UAE's air force has upgraded its planes to the point where it flies some of the most advanced F-16's on earth. It has even looked into purchasing the F-35. Emirate defense spending has increased by 85% since 2004, and it has now cracked the top 15 of global defense spenders — incredibly for a country with only 9 million citizens.

Key allies: The US and other Gulf monarchies.


No. 3 Saudi Arabia

Faisal Al Nasser/Reuters
$56.7 billion defense budget
233,500 active frontline personnel
1,095 tanks
652 aircraft

The territorially largest country in the Middle East also has the fourth-highest military spending of any country in the world. The country's arms buildup has largely been driven by sales from the US and other Western countries.

As a result, Saudi Arabia has the most updated arsenal in the region, with the exception of Israel. Its air force has air-to-air refueling capabilities and advanced fighter jets.

"Saudi Arabia has a lot of air capabilities that a lot of the countries in the region don’t have," Megahan said, adding that it was plausible the Saudis could soon have a more advanced air force than even Israel.

Saudi Arabia is in a tough neighborhood — the country borders Iraq and Yemen, two of the most chronically unstable countries in the region. But with 36% of the population under the age of 24, a sclerotic monarchy, and sectarian tensions, Saudi Arabia might be building its military strength with future internal turmoil in mind.

Indeed, Harmer says that Saudi Arabia's national guard — which is responsible for internal security, and not organized with external defense in mind — is one of the most capable security forces in the entire region.

Key allies: The relationship with the US has been flagging in recent years, but the two are still close partners and Saudi Arabia is still a major purchaser of US arms. Saudi Arabia is the most powerful of the tightly allied Gulf monarchies, a group that includes Kuwait, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates, and Riyadh has providedsubstantial assistance to the post-coup government in Egypt. It is also speculated that Saudi Arabia has secretly funded Pakistan's nuclear weapons program.


No. 2 Turkey

Umit Bektas/REUTERS
$18.1 billion defense budget
410,500 active frontline personnel
3,657 tanks
989 aircraft

The Turkish Armed Forces is composed of a mix of conscript and professional soldiers. Conscription lasts up to a year, though it can be avoided by paying a fee. Turkey is a member of NATO, and it also contributes operational staff to the Eurocorps multinational army initiative. NATO has stationed Patriot missiles within the country as a defense against missile attacks from Syria.

Since 1998, Turkey has attempted to modernize its military, which has started production of a native next-generation tank. Turkey produces a lot of advanced defense technology in-country now, Megahan says: "We're seeing more Turkish-made systems in the Turkish military, whereas before it was a lot of American equipment."

Turkey is also committed to purchasing the F-35 fifth-generation fighter jet, and it produces a range of parts for the aircraft in an attempt to bolster its avionics industry. The country alsofields a fleet of more than 200 F-16s.

The Turkish Armed Forces have not been involved in a traditional war since the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974. However, Turkey's enormous and NATO-allied military has battled an asymmetric Kurdish separatist movement since the 1980s.

Key allies: The US, as well as dozens of European militaries — Turkey is the only NATO member in the region.


No. 1 Israel

Ronen Zvulun/Reuters
$15 billion defense budget
176,500 active frontline personnel
3,870 tanks
680 aircraft

The Israel Defense Forces has defended against a diverse range of enemies since the country achieved independence in 1948. Israel has successfully fought large conventional armies, like the Egyptian and Syrian militaries in 1967 and 1972, as well as asymmetrical foes, like Palestinian militant groups.

Israel has a conscription system in which most Jewish and Druze citizens of the country are required to serve in the military for either two or three years. A close defense relationship with the US and an energetic domestic defense industry give Israel a qualitative edge over all of the region's other militaries: Israel has space assets, advanced fighter jets, high-tech armed drones, and nuclear weapons. Its air force has incredibly high entry and training standards. "Pilot to pilot, airframe to airframe, the Israeli air force is the best in the world," Harmer says.

Israel also has one of the region's most battle-ready armies, a force that has fought in four major engagements since 2006 and has experience securing a few of the most problematic borders on earth.

Israel's military has also never attempted a coup or ruled the country directly, unlike several others on this list.

Thanks to Israel's small size, the military can rapidly mobilize its reserves on relatively short notice.

Key allies: The US is the major one, though Israel enjoys a degree of security cooperation with Jordan and Egypt

 

[The Last of us]

Who is number 4 for indigenous SAM systems in middle east?

Turkey as of now is really lacking in the SAM department, looks like in the next 5 years some of the issues will be resolved but until a long range SAM system is acquired Turkey is vulnerable. Again Turkey is going about this with a long term mindset, the Turks could have bought all air defence systems off the shelf but instead decided to go indigenous. No one will attack Turkey anytime soon so there is not a big risk, Turkey's neighbors are either in chaos or don't have serious militaries.

Turkey has already developed a medium ranged surface to air missile. There is nothing which Turkey is lacking in which prevents longer ranges of 100-200km being reached. Once you shown the capability to design a medium ranged SAM, the design of longer ones are a matter of time. The question then is, do you have the radar capability to go with the missiles. Turkey showed a radar project with 500km range which is to be completed by 2019. If Turkey invests in the long range SAM project then I see no reason by 2019 Turkey should not have a long range SAM.

In the meantime Turkey can buy longer range systems from the outside.

 

[Penguin]

Yep, As It is seen It is about relations of countries along with the money that drive them to cooperate instead of being inside of NATO or not. Noone gives a death adder in others pocket cause of being NATO If they don't see any benefits that I told above. Politics play critical role in such ToT and procurements. If Being NATO member opened all doors to countries requesting technology from others, Each country inside of NATO would have self sufficient enough to fullfill their own requirements but There is not such a thing If We are talking about TECHNOLOGY.

Our longstanding partner Germany refused delivering 1000 Leopard 2A6EX Despite all governmental talks. The ex-German Leopard 2A4 tanks came to Turkey with lots of restrictions. Our biggest ally USA refused some simple licence production for 145 AH-1Z, bigger number of ATACMS missiles, larger number of M270 MLRS. Turkish F-16's can't be operated in Cyprus even in today. If the NATO was what you thought in your minds, Turkey would have never had such an active defence industry today. The motivation and ambitious of Turkish people comes from such bad experiences we have met with our NATO allies at almost all tenders so Domestic equivalents of the products which was refused to sell in past, are being talked as competitive of them today.

Today, Turkey developed an ambitious defence industry thanks to other sources and started revealing many products and Finally, Our friends realized that They started loosing a big market. To receive some cakes, They changed strategy to add Turkey into their projects. It is offered partnership of Eurofighter, British Frigate project, EuroSAM partnership, Utility helicopter partnership...etc but This time, It is Turkey refused all those offers with a great pleasure...

In last years, Turkey made two great technology transfer deal with our Western friends which is going to put Turkey into so special positions. 109+200 T-70 (%65-70 national workshare + technology transfer) and 6 U-214TN(%80+ national input + technology transfer). Those deals and great technology transfer issues are not about being NATO but realization of Turks' anger and determination for technology. They finally realized that If they don't share their technology with Turks, They will loose a big and serious market soTurkey received the extreme benefits that is not seen similar examples before. It is the reason T-70 deal meetings took years to persuade Skorsky officials to be clever for delivering all sensitive technologies to Turkey. After deal, Skorsky announced that It is the first time They have given such a compromise to a country for their technology.

With Skorsky/TAI deal;

-TAI as prime contactor, became second source of the world for S-70 helicopter service and meintenance chain.
-Training/Education services are being done by TAI.
-Aselsan became global domestic avionic integrator institute for T-70 helicopters to be exported by Turkey.
-TAI received licence to export helicopters up to 600 T-70 worldwide.
-The GE engine to be produced by TEI will be called with TEI name and exported to worldwide from Turkey.

What a deal !!!

You are exagerating what I said, which was not "Being NATO member opened all doors to countries requesting technology from others,". You also sidestep/ignoring the things associated with those equipment NATO transfers, namely starting your own maintenance, then refurbishing, then modernizing activities. All of which help develop your own industry to a point where it can team with foreign companies on specific new developments, ToT and- ultimately - going it alone. That is the point I made, not that being a NATO member opens all door magically. It simply is not the case that from Monday on Tuesday all of a sudden there was a Turkish defence industry.

 

[cabatli_53]

ME Transport helicopter fleets

1- Turkey

Land Forces

106- Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk
48- Eurocopter AS-532UL Cougar
25- Agusta-Bell AB206B3
69- Agusta-Bell AB205A1
52- Bell UH-1H/2020-ASAM
15- Agusta-Bell 204
85- Bell UH-1H

Air Forces

AS-532 Cougar: 20
UH-1 Huey: 63


Naval Forces

S-70B SeaHawk : 31
AB-212 ASW: 12

-------------------------------------
Total: 526 utility helicopters


Ongoing programs:

109 + (191 option) TAI/Skorsky/Aselsan 10 tonnes class T-70
~100 TAI 5 tonnes TUHP (Under development) (UH-1 replacement)
11 CH-47F Chinook

2- Egypt

Gazelle
CH-47
OH-23
Mi-4/6/8/17
AW-109/139
Gazelle
UH-60
Commando
-------------------------------------
Total: 245 Transpont helicopters

3- KSA

Bell 205/212/412
AS-61
AS-532
AS-365
AS-332
-------------------
Total: 182 transport helicopters

4- Israel

Eurocopter Panter
CH-53
S-70
Bell 206
----------------------------

Total: 143 transport helicopters

@The Last of us, Bro Can you share the number of Iranian utility helicopters ? I couldn't find the accurate numbers regarding Iranian inventory.

 

[cabatli_53]

ME Attack helicopters

1- KSA

82 AH-64 Apache



2- Israel

AH-1 Cobra
AH-64 Apache
--------------------

Total Active: ~80

3- Egypt


46 AH-64 Apache
24 Mi-17 COIN
------------------

Total active: 70

4- Turkey

25 AH-1 P/S Cobra
10 AH-1W SuperCobra
9 T129A Atak (42 + 40 in production)
----------------
Total active: 44

5- Jordan

32 AH-1F Cobra

Note: I couldn't find the total numbers of Iranian attack helicopters. If Iranian members let us know How many helicopters Iran Army has in inventory, It will be pleased for me...

 

[Osmanovic]

Turkey can send its elite blue berets and other spec ops forces all over the place. A big night operation with heliborne troops and paratroopers will be a nightmare for anyone in the region especially if they don't posses very good night fighting capabilities.

 

[Broccoli]

After seeing how Saudis use their tanks in the current Yemen conflict I wouldn't put them on that list.

 

[xenon54 out]

People are putting their bet purely on numbers, Iraqi Army also had fancy toys but it didnt stop isis, its more important to compare the training, battle readiness, logistical infrastructure, indigenous defence industry, budget, R&D.

Considering these factors, i dont see any of the countries in the list challenging Turkey and Israel, i voted for Turkey (to boost the overkill result even more ) but i almost tend to say Israel is number one, then Turkey and then Iran after a big gap.

Turkey managed to invade and occupy half of Cyprus and Israel could capture Golan hights and Sinai which was eventually given back after political pressure on Israel.

Anyways, i dont see how Egypt could be number one except in numbers which dont mean anything in a real war (see Israels wars, espacially this one and this one).

 

[cabatli_53]

Turkish Land Forces: From BC209 to Current !!!

 

[Amun]

People are putting their bet purely on numbers, Iraqi Army also had fancy toys but it didnt stop isis, its more important to compare the training, battle readiness, logistical infrastructure, indigenous defence industry, budget, R&D.

Considering these factors, i dont see any of the countries in the list challenging Turkey and Israel, i voted for Turkey (to boost the overkill result even more ) but i almost tend to say Israel is number one, then Turkey and then Iran after a big gap.

Turkey managed to invade and occupy half of Cyprus and Israel could capture Golan hights and Sinai which was eventually given back after political pressure on Israel.

Anyways, i dont see how Egypt could be number one except in numbers which dont mean anything in a real war (se

You are comparing Cyparus with Israel and talking about a war happened 50 years ago..so i can talk about the battle of Konya...we had our land back by war and peace...Israel never leave an occupied land except Sinai because they are smart enough to know their enemy's power.

 

[Neptune]

You are comparing Cyparus with Israel and talking about a war happened 50 years ago..so i can talk about the battle of Konya...we had our land back by war and peace...Israel never leave an occupied land except Sinai because they are smart enough to know their enemy's power.

I don't think there was armor warfare, air warfare and thus airborne operations at 1832..

 

[Amun]

I don't think there was armor warfare, air warfare and thus airborne operations at 1832..

Yes, but there was Tactics,courage and faith.

 

[xenon54 out]

You are comparing Cyparus with Israel and talking about a war happened 50 years ago..so i can talk about the battle of Konya...we had our land back by war and peace...Israel never leave an occupied land except Sinai because they are smart enough to know their enemy's power.

Dont be sore, the point is numbers alone dont mean anything in warfare.

 

[Amun]

Dont be sore, the point is numbers alone dont mean anything in warfare.

I agree but how can you measure the readiness of the forces .....only by actual war like Israel and Egypt land forces in 1973 war ....there was new Tactics in that war from both sides...also in Op. Desert Storm in Iraq the Egyptian land forces done well in that , for Examble using Fateh system for Opening a pathway in Minefields....Iran using numbers and waves of unarmored forces like what happened in Iraq-Irani war..... Turkey , i don't know a real fight since WW I...how can you consider other things rather than Numbers here.