Who gets to be a Muslim in Pakistan?

[Riyadh Haque]

Yes and no if you really want to know what they believe you should look it up. Look up Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and some of his claims.

^I know about their belief.

Moving beyond the specific beliefs of the Ahmadis, here are some of the beliefs of non-Ahmadi Pakistanis--

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...s-non-muslims-grand-mufti-24.html#post3201332

 

[Awesome]

Asim you are an admin so I have a complain. How come religious discussion are not allowed but far left liberals/ secularists are given free reign to blame everything on religion especially Islam and we cannot even have a rebuttal by showing them specific verses from the Quran that strikes down their arguments??

Proselytizing religion is not allowed... Religion related social issues are allowed.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

.... Ulema.....came together to evaluate their claims. It was decided unanimously worldwide by all who participated that their beliefs were heresy and so they were labeled apostates.....I come from a family of Sayyid from Allo Mahar Sharif and my forefathers were among those who participated in these discussions.

1) You come from a family of Allo Mahar Sharif Sayyids. Good for you.

2) Your Allo Mahar Sharif Sayyid forefathers participated in the evaluation of the claims of the Ahmadi. Good for them.

3) They found Ahmadi beliefs to be heresy and so they labelled the Ahmadi as Murtads and Ghair-Muslims. Okay, so let us see what this "allo mahar sharif" is all about, who these "sayyids" were and what they were doing & teaching with regard to Pirs, Mausoleums, Urs etcetera: Pir Muhammad Channan Shah Nuri - Wikipedia

Qabar Parasti by Sheikh Tauseef ur Rehman - YouTube

Urs ki Haqeeqat - YouTube

Peer Parastee By Shk Touseef Ur Rehman - YouTube

All this has left me very confused.

Who is the heretic now?

Who is the Murtad now?

Who is the ghair Muslim now?

 

[clmeta]

Looked down upon???

True, I have Qadiani friends here in the states who pretty much confirm most of what I ask them. You can go to any forum Shia or Sunni and ask them about Qadianis they will explain in detail why they are looked down upon.

That being said they should not be persecuted against and I am fully on board with Pakistan abolishing the blasphemy laws as they are detriment to peace in the country.

 

[clmeta]

I can't believe this.
Looks like Ahmedis are worse of than Hindus in Pakistan.

Source: Traveling Intolerance: Pakistani passport for Muslims « JOURNAL OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS

 

[KingMamba]

Looked down upon???

From a religious point of view, you wouldn't understand if you are not Muslim.

 

[clmeta]

Yes, the one who is looked down upon must know how it feels.

From a religious point of view, you wouldn't understand if you are not Muslim.

 

[zip]

In a society where power rests with religion everyone wants to own it,differentiating others in their way not especially because they love it but they love the power it yields .. If there is no profit then who cares for real or imaginary

 

[KingMamba]

1) You come from a family of Allo Mahar Sharif Sayyids. Good for you.

2) Your Allo Mahar Sharif Sayyid forefathers participated in the evaluation of the claims of the Ahmadi. Good for them.

3) They found Ahmadi beliefs to be heresy and so they labelled the Ahmadi as Murtads and Ghair-Muslims. Okay, so let us see what this "allo mahar sharif" is all about, who these "sayyids" were and what they were doing & teaching with regard to Pirs, Mausoleums, Urs etcetera: Pir Muhammad Channan Shah Nuri - Wikipedia

Qabar Parasti by Sheikh Tauseef ur Rehman - YouTube

Urs ki Haqeeqat - YouTube

Peer Parastee By Shk Touseef Ur Rehman - YouTube

All this has left me very confused.

Who is the heretic now?

Who is the Murtad now?

Who is the ghair Muslim now?

One, you can't really expect me to watch all that. Two, I am pretty sure these guys are Salafists, they tend to label the whole world non Muslim besides themselves. Three, you are blaming my forefather for what exactly?? He did not tell anyone to go around to graves if that is what you are implying. Islam in the subcontinent was spread by Sufis like him (or if you wanna believe the internet Hindus by the sword) not by your perverted Salafist Mullahs. Four, his urs is attended by people worldwide where they then give lectures there is nothing bad about that. Five, you salafists are so perverted you guys are not even willing to spare the grave of our Prophet Muhammad PBUH continuously trying to demolish it.

Six and my last point I will make to you. On this thread alone you have labeled Qadiani heretics, shias heretics, and now hanafis as heretics.

If the rest of the world are heretics why is

Alqaeda - followers of Wahabi ideology
Taliban- followers of deobandi ideology both of which are a part of Salafism. Pakistan never had as much problems as it does today until Saudi funded madarsas started popping up all over the country.

Unlike you though I will not label you or the shias murtad as I was taught to let Allah decide who is right on the day of judgement.

Yes, the one who is looked down upon must know how it feels.

Yeah they are looked down upon and yeah it is wrong nobody says it is right. If you are attempting to troll let me stop you before you start.

 

[Thor]

One, you can't really expect me to watch all that. Two, I am pretty sure these guys are Salafists, they tend to label the whole world non Muslim besides themselves. Three, you are blaming my forefather for what exactly?? He did not tell anyone to go around to graves if that is what you are implying. Islam in the subcontinent was spread by Sufis like him (or if you wanna believe the internet Hindus by the sword) not by your perverted Salafist Mullahs. Four, his urs is attended by people worldwide where they then give lectures there is nothing bad about that. Five, you salafists are so perverted you guys are not even willing to spare the grave of our Prophet Muhammad PBUH continuously trying to demolish it.

Six and my last point I will make to you. On this thread alone you have labeled Qadiani heretics, shias heretics, and now hanafis as heretics.

If the rest of the world are heretics why is

Alqaeda - followers of Wahabi ideology
Taliban- followers of deobandi ideology both of which are a part of Salafism. Pakistan never had as much problems as it does today until Saudi funded madarsas started popping up all over the country.

Unlike you though I will not label you or the shias murtad as I was taught to let Allah decide who is right on the day of judgement.



Yeah they are looked down upon and yeah it is wrong nobody says it is right. If you are attempting to troll let me stop you before you start.

eeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr, My Brother I think it is a little premature for you to make such accusations without even watching the videos. I have just seen the last one and this man clearly makes mention that No Sect, or association to any sect is allowed and he claims that very clearly.

HOW EXACTLY DID YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT HE IS A "SALAFIST", OR WERE YOU NOT TAUGHT ABOUT ACCUSING SOMEONE ABOUT SOMETHING WITHOUT EVIDENCE FIRST i.e. watching the videos

 

[KingMamba]

eeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr, My Brother I think it is a little premature for you to make such accusations without even watching the videos. I have just seen the last one and this man clearly makes mention that No Sect, or association to any sect is allowed and he claims that very clearly.

HOW EXACTLY DID YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT HE IS A "SALAFIST", OR WERE YOU NOT TAUGHT ABOUT ACCUSING SOMEONE ABOUT SOMETHING WITHOUT EVIDENCE FIRST i.e. watching the videos

Only Salafist go around labeling every other sect as murtad. He may not come out and say it but is his teaching reflect their views then how is my conclusion not justified. Yes I haven't seen the last video they are about an hour each I only watched a bit of the first one. Regardless nobody can dispute what I have written above in relation to the Salafists.

 

[Thor]

Only Salafist go around labeling every other sect as murtad. He may not come out and say it but is his teaching reflect their views then how is my conclusion not justified. Yes I haven't seen the last video they are about an hour each I only watched a bit of the first one. Regardless nobody can dispute what I have written above in relation to the Salafists.

I care less about anyone who associates themselves to any Jamaat/Sect........ does that then by your logic make me a Salafist.....

Can I then by that account label you Taliban, AQ or TTP as they too claim to be Muslim and as such you are all of one........

 

[KingMamba]

I care less about anyone who associates themselves to any Jamaat/Sect........ does that then by your logic make me a Salafist.....

Can I then by that account label you Taliban, AQ or TTP as they too claim to be Muslim and as such you are all of one........

No, I actually agreed with you beginning post where you said why nobody should call themselves shia/ sunni and associate with sects. When somebody asks me what religion do you follow I say I am a Muslim not I am a Sunni Muslim. The reason why I brought up sect was because Riyadh trying to throw blame on my family (the link he provided is of my great great great great grandfather). In the video the dude says nobody should hold Pirs up as their Lord. The answer to that is nobody does that anyway, they take tawassul as shirk (if you want to know about tawassul you can look it up for yourself and you will see it is not although it is frowned upon) and blames my forefathers for this. You can look up their teachings (my forefathers) it is right there on the web. It was their teaching along with other Sufis as to why Islam spread in the subcontinent in the first place.

 

[Thor]

No, I actually agreed with you beginning post where you said why nobody should call themselves shia/ sunni and associate with sects. When somebody asks me what religion do you follow I say I am a Muslim not I am a Sunni Muslim. The reason why I brought up sect was because Riyadh trying to throw blame on my family (the link he provided is of my great great great great grandfather). In the video the dude says nobody should hold Pirs up as their Lord. The answer to that is nobody does that anyway, they take tawassul as shirk (if you want to know about tawassul you can look it up for yourself and you will see it is not although it is frowned upon) and blames my forefathers for this. You can look up their teachings (my forefathers) it is right there on the web. It was their teaching along with other Sufis as to why Islam spread in the subcontinent in the first place.

Let me make mention that it was not the actions of the Sufis that spread in the subcontinent but the will of Allah (SWT) that Islam should spread.

Secondly, the mere fact that Sufis and others claim that Sufis spread deen is against the teaching of Allah in the first place as in

"Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only

to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do." (6:159)​

The only label given to Muslims by our Lord is

And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims." (41:33)

Whatever was done by our ancestors, rightly or wrongly we are in no position to question or answer, why

That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do. (2:134 & 141)​

 

[KingMamba]

Let me make mention that it was not the actions of the Sufis that spread in the subcontinent but the will of Allah (SWT) that Islam should spread.

Secondly, the mere fact that Sufis and others claim that Sufis spread deen is against the teaching of Allah in the first place as in

"Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only

to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do." (6:159)​

The only label given to Muslims by our Lord is

And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims." (41:33)

Whatever was done by our ancestors, rightly or wrongly we are in no position to question or answer, why

That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do. (2:134 & 141)​

Once again I agree with you. As for the Sufi influence it is well documented you don't have to take my word for it. When he attacked my forefather asking who is a murtad I had to respond. Like I said his teaching are on the web and what he and the man in the video accuse the Sufis of are not even a part of their teachings.​