Who gets to be a Muslim in Pakistan?

[Awesome]

I am sure a similar group selection methodology was used as the survey which showed majority of Balochis do not want independence..

About daily life, well a lot of times are not very forthcoming about their real views on such sensitive issues...

That's not the case. With Ahmedis I can affirm they are met with brutal judgement but Ramadan is just about to a close, we have sat down for iftar together and prayed (granted some minutes apart, for both), eid is around the corner, people will pray and hug each other three times as normal.

The simple fact is that anyone who believes that there is no deity worth worship other than Allah and Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah (and the last messenger as per Quran) is a Muslim in the eyes of 99.99% Muslims.

That doesn't mean there is no friction between Shias and Sunnis but its on a separate issue. Shias believe Hazarat Ali is the rightful 1st Khalifah, Sunnis believe it is Hazarat Abu bakr As-Sadiq as issue that is post Prophet Muhammad and hence beyond the debate.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

So the message of Allah's Apostle is to spread Islam by force??

Yes you can call this as force. If you order, this means you are bound to obey.
There is some hate about non Muslim in Quran. That's why america and Saudi arab government tried to ban some verses of Quran including Jihad.Even it said, that Non Muslim cannot be friend of Muslim and Jihad will continue till the Judgement day.
Islam doesn't like other religion.
Even Muslim destroyed the Idols, Gods of Non Muslim in Makkah.

 

[KingMamba]

Yes you can call this as force. If you order, this means you are bound to obey.
There is some hate about non Muslim in Quran. That's why america and Saudi arab government tried to ban some verses of Quran including Jihad.Even it said, that Non Muslim cannot be friend of Muslim and Jihad will continue till the Judgement day.
Islam doesn't like other religion.
Even Muslim destroyed the Idols, Gods of Non Muslim in Makkah.

I stopped reading after this. How can they ban verses of the Quran? They going to walk into the homes of 1.4 Billion or so Muslims and blacken out the pages??

 

[Jango]

The president needs to be Muslim, and is also a Shia in Zardari's case!

I and all the people I have met consider Shias as Muslims. I have very close Shia friends.

Everyone I know considers Shia as Muslims. Shia teachers teach students.

A minority might be there, but not half.

BTW, Jordan and Egypt!!

 

[KingMamba]

That's not the case. With Ahmedis I can affirm they are met with brutal judgement but Ramadan is just about to a close, we have sat down for iftar together and prayed (granted some minutes apart, for both), eid is around the corner, people will pray and hug each other three times as normal.

The simple fact is that anyone who believes that there is no deity worth worship other than Allah and Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah (and the last messenger as per Quran) is a Muslim in the eyes of 99.99% Muslims.

That doesn't mean there is no friction between Shias and Sunnis but its on a separate issue. Shias believe Hazarat Ali is the rightful 1st Khalifah, Sunnis believe it is Hazarat Abu bakr As-Sadiq as issue that is post Prophet Muhammad and hence beyond the debate.

Asim you are an admin so I have a complain. How come religious discussion are not allowed but far left liberals/ secularists are given free reign to blame everything on religion especially Islam and we cannot even have a rebuttal by showing them specific verses from the Quran that strikes down their arguments??

 

[Jango]

The simple fact is that anyone who believes that there is no deity worth worship other than Allah and Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah (and the last messenger as per Quran) is a Muslim in the eyes of 99.99% Muslims.

That's what matters! Well said Asim.

I don't know who is the guy next to me during Friday or Eid prayers, but I still hug him and shake his hand, Shia or not.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

I stopped reading after this. How can they ban verses of the Quran? They going to walk into the homes of 1.4 Billion or so Muslims and blacken out the pages??

I mean in Makkah(Saudi arabia) where millions of people gathers and listen Khutba/speech..
Yes You can't ban/eliminate this from all over world.

 

[KingMamba]

I mean in Makkah(Saudi arabia) where millions of people gathers and listen Khutba/speech..
Yes You can't ban/eliminate this from all over world.

That is ludicrous there would be anarchy in KSA if the Al-Saud tried to alter parts of the Quran. They are not that stupid to try something like this.

 

[bandit]

That's not the case. With Ahmedis I can affirm they are met with brutal judgement but Ramadan is just about to a close, we have sat down for iftar together and prayed (granted some minutes apart, for both), eid is around the corner, people will pray and hug each other three times as normal.

The simple fact is that anyone who believes that there is no deity worth worship other than Allah and Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah (and the last messenger as per Quran) is a Muslim in the eyes of 99.99% Muslims.

That doesn't mean there is no friction between Shias and Sunnis but its on a separate issue. Shias believe Hazarat Ali is the rightful 1st Khalifah, Sunnis believe it is Hazarat Abu bakr As-Sadiq as issue that is post Prophet Muhammad and hence beyond the debate.

Anecdotal evidence is no refute for real research, unless you claim to have gone into details with 38,000 people as this scientific survey did.

In fact if you go into the details of the report, you will find that people from the more radicalized portion of Pakistan ( KP and FATA) were not at all surveyed. One can presume that if they were included, this number would have been much higher considering its demographic and social similarity to ultra-radicalized Afghanistan( Almost completely Anti-Shia).

Asim you are an admin so I have a complain. How come religious discussion are not allowed but far left liberals/ secularists are given free reign to blame everything on religion especially Islam and we cannot even have a rebuttal by showing them specific verses from the Quran that strikes down their arguments??

Beacuse if you do that, you will open Quran to logical arguments, which isn't exactly appreciated by the religious Muslims.

You are in fact trying to cover your religion from criticism, constructive or otherwise..

 

[KingMamba]

Anecdotal evidence is no refute for real research, unless you claim to have gone into details with 38,000 people as this scientific survey did.

In fact if you go into the details of the report, you will find that people from the more radicalized portion of Pakistan ( KP and FATA) were not at all surveyed. One can presume that if they were included, this number would have been much higher considering its demographic and social similarity to ultra-radicalized Afghanistan( Almost completely Anti-Shia).

Fine, take this survey for what you will however it doesn't matter what people believe as long as they do not go around killing one another.

 

[karan.1970]

That's not the case. With Ahmedis I can affirm they are met with brutal judgement but Ramadan is just about to a close, we have sat down for iftar together and prayed (granted some minutes apart, for both), eid is around the corner, people will pray and hug each other three times as normal.

The simple fact is that anyone who believes that there is no deity worth worship other than Allah and Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah (and the last messenger as per Quran) is a Muslim in the eyes of 99.99% Muslims.

That doesn't mean there is no friction between Shias and Sunnis but its on a separate issue. Shias believe Hazarat Ali is the rightful 1st Khalifah, Sunnis believe it is Hazarat Abu bakr As-Sadiq as issue that is post Prophet Muhammad and hence beyond the debate.

Great description.. I wonder how many of hardliner Sunnis in Pakistan have this clarity of thought about Shias.. Let me guess, 50%

Yes you can call this as force. If you order, this means you are bound to obey.
There is some hate about non Muslim in Quran. That's why america and Saudi arab government tried to ban some verses of Quran including Jihad.Even it said, that Non Muslim cannot be friend of Muslim and Jihad will continue till the Judgement day.
Islam doesn't like other religion.
Even Muslim destroyed the Idols, Gods of Non Muslim in Makkah.

And then you guys wonder why rest of the world looks at Islamic practices with suspicion and distaste...

 

[bandit]

Fine, take this survey for what you will however it doesn't matter what people believe as long as they do not go around killing one another.

I suggest you read the news more often, even scrolling through world section I see enough sectarian killings in Pakistan.

I am pretty sure number of shias killed is eaily in thousands, but i'll leave you to research more about your own country.

 

[Armstrong]

That's what matters! Well said Asim.

I don't know who is the guy next to me during Friday or Eid prayers, but I still hug him and shake his hand, Shia or not.

Eid Prayer I could understand but how in God's name does one not realize whether there is a Shi'ite or a Sunni standing next to you during the Friday prayers ? Dude...we pray so differently from each other !

P.S I've only entered into a tussle with a Shi'ite once in my life and that was because I - a Sunni and a Butttt - ate the entire Pizza in the 10 minutes it takes for the fast to be broken as per Fiqh Jafriya !

Otherwise the vast majority of us get along very well with each other !

P.P.S Gooner...? Figures...softies and pansy arsed footballers who end up with a broken something even if you sneeze at them !

 

[KingMamba]

Beacuse if you do that, you will open Quran to logical arguments, which isn't exactly appreciated by the religious Muslims.

You are in fact trying to cover your religion from criticism, constructive or otherwise..

First of all nobody on this forum is even an Islamic scholar (correct me if I am wrong) so they shouldn't be arguing about religion in the first place. I have no problem with that aspect of the forum rules, the problem I have is with the liberal/secularists blaming religion for the problems of the world. They complain about religion when instead they should be giving solutions to the problems the discussion is about.

I suggest you read the news more often, even scrolling through world section I see enough sectarian killings in Pakistan.

I am pretty sure number of shias killed is eaily in thousands, but i'll leave you to research more about your own country.

The number is in the high hundreds low thousand if anything. In a country of 60 million or so shias that is not even a blip and the same amount of Sunnis have probably been killed in attacks around Pakistan.

Like the bombs that killed 40,000 civilians in the last decade in Pakistan could differentiate between sects.

Eid Prayer I could understand but how in God's name does one not realize whether there is a Shi'ite or a Sunni standing next to you during the Friday prayers ? Dude...we pray so differently from each other !

P.S I've only entered into a tussle with a Shi'ite once in my life and that was because I - a Sunni and a Butttt - ate the entire Pizza in the 10 minutes it takes for the fast to be broken as per Fiqh Jafriya !

Otherwise the vast majority of us get along very well with each other !

P.P.S Gooner...? Figures...softies and pansy arsed footballers who end up with a broken something even if you sneeze at them !

Forget shia-sunni even Sunnis differ on the way they pray.

And then you guys wonder why rest of the world looks at Islamic practices with suspicion and distaste...

I am pretty sure Peaceful civilian is an atheist by some his posts I have read on this forum. You want to base your assumptions on his words fine go ahead but the logical thing would be for you to walk into a mosque in India and talk to the Cleric yourself or join a Islamic forum and ask questions there. Just my two cents.

 

[Ahmad]

True, I have Qadiani friends here in the states who pretty much confirm most of what I ask them. You can go to any forum Shia or Sunni and ask them about Qadianis they will explain in detail why they are looked down upon.

Well, no matter what those Shias and Sunnis say, the fact is that they dont have the right to judge or look down upon Ahmadis or any other people. Everybody have their faith and we should just leave it right there without making it political issue or gov policy.

That being said they should not be persecuted against and I am fully on board with Pakistan abolishing the blasphemy laws as they are detriment to peace in the country.

Brothers you must understand it was the Qadianis themselves who first declared all non- Qadianis as apostates.

Interesting, could you give me the source plz?