White House Set to Sell New Fighter Jets to Pakistan in Bid to Bolster Partnership

[Thunder_Rider]

I think whether new or old (embargoed one's).... 18 new F-16's would be better than buying or getting just 8. Best even if we buy the 'V' variant & upgrade the in-service 18 Block52+'s to the same 'V' standard.

Nonetheless, they will be a valuable addition into the modern fleet of PAF, but PAF should seriously not ditch the chances of striking a deal with the Russians for Su-35's if they have any in their plans.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Thank you Friend. I wanted this to come from an authentic source. To my Pakistani friends -- now you know why PAF is reluctant to induct the Russian bird?? Russia lately has tons of problems in maintaining its own fleet of jets let alone fully support those of other nations.

Sir, do consider any hardware bought from Russia can always be supplemented with spares from China. AND as we all know, there isn't anything Russian, China cannot repair or make on it's own.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Su 35 deal is just a thought for now. I doubt Pakistan and Russia has serious discussion regarding its possible sale till date. Hypothetically speaking, even if we have a deal with Russians than most likely it will be dedicated for Pak Navy. Now keeping PN's limited budget in mind, 2 squads of Su 35 at most will be going for it though the count should be good enough with the back up of JF17s and few F16s based at Karachi. So even with the inclusion of 24 Su35 by 2018, PAF will still required to have a sizable hi-tech plane fleet at their disposal to mitigate any Indian threat and this is where, F-16 will do our job.

Also the requirement is quite high especially when your Mirages and F7 interceptors are dwindling at an astronomical pace. JF17s are still not in good numbers and really they are not just in the F16 league yet though block 3 having AESA radar will be a huge force multiplier so till than and perhaps even than F16s will remain our silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.We should keep adding them as many as we can.

Thank you Friend. I wanted this to come from an authentic source. To my Pakistani friends -- now you know why PAF is reluctant to induct the Russian bird?? Russia lately has tons of problems in maintaining its own fleet of jets let alone fully support those of other nations.

24-32 Jets are really not difficult to maintain as compared to 150 + planes. We can easily have spares in advance. Not much Su 35 support infrastructure required all over the county unlike in the case of F16s, JF17s,Mirages where you need to have their necessary support and upgrades at nearly every air base in Pakistan. Su 35 primarily we be based in Karachi only.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Sir, do consider any hardware bought from China can always be supplemented with spares from China. AND as we all know, there isn't anything Russian, China cannot repair or make on it's own.

Sir first consider if we in the market for Su 30 or 35? If 30 then the engine will remain a challenge. WS 10 has been tested but is yet to be brought into operational service. even if it is, it will mean lower MTBF. Similarly avionics/sensors are partly of Russian mfg. and helped by Ukrainians. If so, support will be a challenge.

SU 35 if sold to us would have its own set of operational hurdles to cross given poor record of service support for Russian eqpt. no Sino help there.

 

[Humble Analyst]

We are not a rich kid but we sure know how to make best use of our asset ,just to answer you
In 80s and 90s, PAF answer to IAF was ayf sola. Simply no rivalry with F16 at that time ,proof Russian planes
They bought SU-30, PAF answer was ayf sola. We brought block 52 + MLU was the reason to cater Flanker with modern goodies it can fight in Pak Soil and even offensive mission you are highly underestimating Block 52 .Only significance lacking is IRST .
They are going for Rafale, PAF answer will be ayf sola. Lets see when IAF inducts and in what number ,Rafael just like F16 was developed primarily for ground attack so we need to understand what role it can play also Rafael has no history of A2A engagments where as F16 has his days even against typhoons
They will be going for 5th generation, PAF babas would be going to Washington for more ayf sola.Relax you are talking things which are going to happen 10 years from now .Our planning for 5th Gen is already done ,Thunder with Block 3/4 will incorporate many features which will be our local 4++ /semi 5th Gen ,J31/J20 is already being evaluted .So IAF today is crazy as they are trying to buy every plane you know what is going to happened Cost and which they have already started to feel in case of Rafael .More Platforms more cost

Rafael is a way superior plane, unless all specs and armament use totally wrong so think out of Aif sollah please

We are not going to give them anything this is to keep them or let say consider them our ally

Why people are thinking this is replacement for SU-35 ? These are not

if we pay for it we will deplete some funds, also the limitations of codes!

The Sukhoi-35 deal would be icing on cake now if we get 24 of those birds

Ab pata chala Janab kya karnay gaye thay?

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Sir the force equalizer were the AWACs that we bought. Need to understand that in the absence of AESA on-bard our fighters, we opted for area surveillance. Warning and then vectoring fighter response at longer ranges would be the role of the AWACS. That somewhat nullifies the advantage MKI has.

F-16s with AMRAAM can and will handle the threat once identified and tagged by the AWACS.

We r not designing our airforce for deep strike missions into India -- their doctrine requires them to do so. That is where they need a long range heavy fighter -- we don't, unless we require long range interdiction against CBG's.

Proximity of our airbases to that of the enemy nullifies the advantage of long range a/c. The moment we become airborne from our bases -- we are already lit up -- same goes for the Indians. And if they operate from airbases deep inside India, then the moment they hit the 250 km mark, they will be detected by our AWAC's.

Interdiction threat is from low level FGA's which are more difficult to detect.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Sir the force equalizer were the AWACs that we bought. Need to understand that in the absence of AESA on-bard our fighters, we opted for area surveillance. Warning and then vectoring fighter response at longer ranges would be the role of the AWACS. That somewhat nullifies the advantage MKI has.

F-16s with AMRAAM can and will handle the threat once identified and tagged by the AWACS.

We r not designing our airforce for deep strike missions into India -- their doctrine requires them to do so. That is where they need a long range heavy fighter -- we don't, unless we require long range interdiction against CBG's.

Proximity of our airbases to that of the enemy nullifies the advantage of long range a/c. The moment we become airborne from our bases -- we are already lit up -- same goes for the Indians. And if they operate from airbases deep inside India, then the moment they hit the 250 km mark, they will be detected by our AWAC's.

Interdiction threat is from low level FGA's which are more difficult to detect.

We need long range Aircraft for denial of sea area. Otherwise our subs will be in danger and it maybe a repeat of 71. If we do not perform SEAD and bombing missions in the range of 350 -500 miles they will use stand off weapons against our front lines. Defense without offense eventually succumbs to repeated attacks.

 

[Donald Trump]

So many people use this idiom but I honestly have no idea what it means?!

It means: That's where the problem lies!

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, do consider any hardware bought from Russia can always be supplemented with spares from China. AND as we all know, there isn't anything Russian, China cannot repair or make on it's own.

Hi,

Yes---but I just learnt that there maybe a problem with integratimg all the chinese weapons to russian aircraft----for that reason china is developing the JH7B to the next level for strike missions---because the SU30 that they have may have some issues of accepting all Chinese weapons----.

It is on one of the threads I posted somehere today---in response to Silent hawk's post-----.

 

[Knight Rider]

Who doesn't? Our embassy section in Washington do not have ISI operatives? Or for that matter any other nation? Or we do not conduct espionage ops in Iran (Brotherly Country), Afghanistan, Siri Lanka, Nepal (Btw at one time Kathmandu was one of the largest ISI overseas ops under the garb of a private commercial venture)

You mean to say that we do not operate and gather intelligence on a country which has given us an allied status? We did not have clandestine ops in US while gathering equipment for nuke program and broke a lot of their local laws?

We need to grow up and smell the coffee. Need to get out of this "brotherly relationship" and "As high as the Karakorum" syndrome. Relationships between nations are not "Khandan ki politics!" But are transnational and governed by convergent interests by default. And my friend be ready for the Chinese MSS (Their foreign and counter intelligence Agency among other things) to be operating in large numbers if not already.

If KSA gives us oil on concessional rates then it also exports their brand of Islam and we look the other way because of that oil (That is another story of the mess that it has created because of the look the other way). If China is coming in a big way into Pakistan, it is because -- time for it to expand into the Indian ocean.

At the height of the Afghan war, CIA had the largest ops. in Pakistan -- then it suited us for them to have one in our land of the pure!!! Or KSA had substantial intelligence assets in Pakistan and still do!!!

Come on be real and grow up my friend and the face the realities of this world. Israel routinely conducts espionage on its only long term partner in the world and so does US on them. Even UK does and vice versa.

This is how the game is played the world over -- or it might be more understandable if I put it this way "The next door Khala keeps a sharp eye on you through the maid, who happens to be a double agent!!!!. And the same Khala comes over with sweets on Eid and halwa on 12th Rabi-ul-Awal!!!"

100% Agreed.

 

[airmarshal]

Its just 8 jets. And that too needs Congress approval. So calm down. With hostility in Congress against Pakistan, the sale likely wont be approved. Even if it still goes ahead, the number is almost insignificant.

 

[batmannow]

Pakistan knows everything about F-16s what it needs know as a user. We ain't looking to manufacture them at our own.

What is it that you would have liked F-16s to do in Kargil? Be specific please. I can assure you if Pakistan had 500 Su-35s or even 1000 F-22 at that time, result would still be same. This is what happens when Generals make stupid plans and fail to look at broader picture. I have all my respect for those who fought valiantly at Kargil but those Generals who thought it will be just another skirmish at LoC are responsible for sending our sons to their death.

Sorry to burst your dam-o-cratic bubble , if we had reliable air cover then we wouldn't let Indians bring their infantry to close too us ?
& With our supplies intact , we would be there as long as we wanted ?
Do you have any idea , where was our positions were in kargill ?
From those positions , what could we have done if we had our F-16s backing us ?
Even we could have gone long way inside cutting Indian held Kashmir , & then surly bringing Indians on to talking table ?
Kashmir would be free , happily ?
We don't have any sufficient air cover on our back , our supplies wasn't safe & our in filed command position were in direct firing line from IAF mostly ?
If our F-16s were there with our pilots , we wouldn't be fighting all sides ?
Front , back , left , right , In the air ?

With PAF f- 16s surly in kargill , our PAF would have gone deadly to IAF , at least downing some of those SOBs mirrages ?
& at least we could be able to launch more deep down attacks on IA , & with our supplies & PAF , I can bet no army in the world could have came close to us ?
We did our very best , the whole world knows what was that hell ?
& the soldiers who gave everything of their lives were the best & the bravest in the WOrld fighting for Pakistan , & for the freedom of Kashmir ?
Our COAS of that , time was with us , even going into enemy territory taking the greatest risk ?
I Havant seen any of our stupid , croupt , selfish politicians even saying a word or even thinking about the problem of Kashmir ?
& it always a general to fight a war or plan a war?
not & never any politician can do that ?
Cause they never can risk their , lives ?
Can they ?
Your post is live wrost joke of this thread !
I just wish I could have slapped you up front ?

Hi,

Yes---but I just learnt that there maybe a problem with integratimg all the chinese weapons to russian aircraft----for that reason china is developing the JH7B to the next level for strike missions---because the SU30 that they have may have some issues of accepting all Chinese weapons----.

It is on one of the threads I posted somehere today---in response to Silent hawk's post-----.

Even that is great that out Chinese friends knew the problems , so we can plan them in advance & can request for the replacements before we buy the Russian super heavies ?

Sir, do consider any hardware bought from Russia can always be supplemented with spares from China. AND as we all know, there isn't anything Russian, China cannot repair or make on it's own.

The whole , SU 27 been replaced by J-11 the Chinese version & still you are unable to guess that Chinese has the capability of their own ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Sir, do consider any hardware bought from Russia can always be supplemented with spares from China. AND as we all know, there isn't anything Russian, China cannot repair or make on it's own.

If you went to China for spares on your Russian OEM sourced fighters you would damage your relationship with the Russians, perhaps irreparably. The Russians are already peeved at the Chinese enough for their IPR infringement of the Su-33 and Su-30. This is out of the question IMHO.

Not only that but the PAF are likely to want to keep their warranties and guarantees intact- going for third party spares would void any such agreements.

 

[batmannow]

If you went to China for spares on your Russian OEM sourced fighters you would damage your relationship with the Russians, perhaps irreparably. The Russians are already peeved at the Chinese enough for their IPR infringement of the Su-33 and Su-30. This is out of the question IMHO.

Not only that but the PAF are likely to want to keep their warranties and guarantees intact- going for third party spares would void any such agreements.

Who are you a representative of sukhoi & co ?
What if its all part of deal from Russia to save its PAKFA deal with India ?
That they & Chinese & Pakistanis make covert agreement for getting su-35 spares lately ?
PAF & PLAF has a history doing things together & its just all not about money , for Pakistani & Chinese relationship & military cooperation you need to think & breath like a Pakistani or a Chinese ?
& your post just showes that you are none of them ?lolzz

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Now that Mr NS is completing his "successful" visit of USA, we are in a position of doing some analysis, based on how the events have unfolded:

The (only) two main developments happened on this tour are: PAF getting 8 new F-16 and Pakistan giving USA the dossiers against India (one may argue to include Mrs Obama's announcement of increasing the funding for Maryam Nawaz's work for poor girls education)

The question comes to mind, did the Pakistan PM went all the way to USA, with his entourage, only to do achieve these two objectives ??

No ! No ! Certainly not.

So what happened ???

Something very interesting happened

The strategists of Pakistan had read the game even before the tour started. The American objective was to neutralize the battle field (and may be other) nukes in exchange of the lollipop (also known as the "civil nuclear technology"). Learnt their lessons from the early 90's F-16 fiasco, the Pakistani folks were well prepared. They started releasing the classified information about Pakistani nuclear achievements and videos of accuracy of Pakistani missiles.

The US strategy fizzled out even before it could make any mark.