White House Set to Sell New Fighter Jets to Pakistan in Bid to Bolster Partnership

[Basel]

Who are you a representative of sukhoi & co ?
What if its all part of deal from Russia to save its PAKFA deal with India ?
That they & Chinese & Pakistanis make covert agreement for getting su-35 spares lately ?
PAF & PLAF has a history doing things together & its just all not about money , for Pakistani & Chinese relationship & military cooperation you need to think & breath like a Pakistani or a Chinese ?
& your post just showes that you are none of them ?lolzz

You are right, who are Indians poking nose in matters which have nothing to do with them.

 

[batmannow]

Now that Mr NS is completing his "successful" visit of USA, we are in a position of doing some analysis, based on how the events have unfolded:

The (only) two main developments happened on this tour are: PAF getting 8 new F-16 and Pakistan giving USA the dossiers against India (one may argue to include Mrs Obama's announcement of increasing the funding for Maryam Nawaz's work for poor girls education)

The question comes to mind, did the Pakistan PM went all the way to USA, with his entourage, only to do achieve these two objectives ??

No ! No ! Certainly not.

So what happened ???

Something very interesting happened

The strategists of Pakistan had read the game even before the tour started. The American objective was to neutralize the battle field (and may be other) nukes in exchange of the lollipop (also known as the "civil nuclear technology"). Learnt their lessons from the early 90's F-16 fiasco, the Pakistani folks were well prepared. They started releasing the classified information about Pakistani nuclear achievements and videos of accuracy of Pakistani missiles.

The US strategy fizzled out even before it could make any mark.

Another huge development is PM Nawaz Sharif has openly asked USA to side with Pakistan against India on Kashmir , if they want Afghanistan be resolved .
That's where , now Americans are between rock & bottom ?lolzx
Its a mark of , America,s berucratic downfall !

 

[jupiter2007]

Just 8? Pffft

16 planes.

 

[airmarshal]

Sorry to burst your dam-o-cratic bubble , if we had reliable air cover then we wouldn't let Indians bring their infantry to close too us ?
& With our supplies intact , we would be there as long as we wanted ?
Do you have any idea , where was our positions were in kargill ?
From those positions , what could we have done if we had our F-16s backing us ?
Even we could have gone long way inside cutting Indian held Kashmir , & then surly bringing Indians on to talking table ?
Kashmir would be free , happily ?
We don't have any sufficient air cover on our back , our supplies wasn't safe & our in filed command position were in direct firing line from IAF mostly ?
If our F-16s were there with our pilots , we wouldn't be fighting all sides ?
Front , back , left , right , In the air ?

With PAF f- 16s surly in kargill , our PAF would have gone deadly to IAF , at least downing some of those SOBs mirrages ?
& at least we could be able to launch more deep down attacks on IA , & with our supplies & PAF , I can bet no army in the world could have came close to us ?
We did our very best , the whole world knows what was that hell ?
& the soldiers who gave everything of their lives were the best & the bravest in the WOrld fighting for Pakistan , & for the freedom of Kashmir ?
Our COAS of that , time was with us , even going into enemy territory taking the greatest risk ?
I Havant seen any of our stupid , croupt , selfish politicians even saying a word or even thinking about the problem of Kashmir ?
& it always a general to fight a war or plan a war?
not & never any politician can do that ?
Cause they never can risk their , lives ?
Can they ?
Your post is live wrost joke of this thread !
I just wish I could have slapped you up front ?

If we didnot have proper air cover, it meant was a foolish idea to take such an adventure. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Who are you a representative of sukhoi & co ?
What if its all part of deal from Russia to save its PAKFA deal with India ?
That they & Chinese & Pakistanis make covert agreement for getting su-35 spares lately ?
PAF & PLAF has a history doing things together & its just all not about money , for Pakistani & Chinese relationship & military cooperation you need to think & breath like a Pakistani or a Chinese ?
& your post just showes that you are none of them ?lolzz

I'm not going to indulge in your fantastical delusions. I am simply stating how these things work, if you buy Su-35s from Russia (govt-govt or commercial) the PAF will have a contract with the OEM- Sukhoi that includes all requisite aspects of training, maintenance and spares and there will also be provisions for a warranty. As per all deals of this type the agreement will stipulate that any third party spares will void the warrantee- It is the same with any of your Apple devices.

This is the reality, no amount of wishful thinking will change the accepted norms of deal making. Pakistan and China can be as cozy as you like but how that relates to Russia selling its equipment to Pakistan is beyond me. Russia has not forgiven the Chinese for their IPR infringements nor have they forgotten. If Pakistan were to go to China for spares outside of the agreed framework you would be putting yourselves in an awkward position and I highly doubt the PAF would do so- they are professionals.


@waz @Aamir Niaz

 

[Viking 63]

Contrary to Indian Media (one of the most fucked up) in the world, The visits has gone well !! I have a feeling that Obama might be visiting Pakistan next summer. 8 F-16 is not a lollipop, block-52 are lethal force multipliers. Nevertheless Pakistan is no longer dependent on American Arms and Uncle sam is fully aware of that, that's why Pentagon and State dept is still strongly pushing Congress to approve OHP frigates to Pakistan even now.
My hope is that Pakistan get access to more American market and Investments FDI inflows which we really need. Not surprisingly buying weapons from USA has now dropped to 3rd level.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Contrary to Indian Media (one of the most fucked up) in the world, The visits has gone well !! I have a feeling that Obama might be visiting Pakistan next summer. 8 F-16 is not a lollipop, block-52 are lethal force multipliers. Nevertheless Pakistan is no longer dependent on American Arms and Uncle sam is fully aware of that, that's why Pentagon and State dept is still strongly pushing Congress to approve OHP frigates to Pakistan even now.
My hope is that Pakistan get access to more American market and Investments FDI inflows which we really need. Not surprisingly buying weapons from USA has now dropped to 3rd level.

Fair points all around but Obama won't be visiting Pakistan.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Fair points all around but Obama won't be visiting Pakistan.

Never say never it could go either way

 

[Abingdonboy]

Never say never it could go either way

True but I just can't see it. What has Obama got to gain from it when will be in the last months of his presidency by that time?

Also, I don't know if the security situation in Pakistan is conducive to a POTUS visit.

 

[Indus Falcon]

If you went to China for spares on your Russian OEM sourced fighters you would damage your relationship with the Russians, perhaps irreparably. The Russians are already peeved at the Chinese enough for their IPR infringement of the Su-33 and Su-30. This is out of the question IMHO.

Not only that but the PAF are likely to want to keep their warranties and guarantees intact- going for third party spares would void any such agreements.

The point was "in the event of a Russian embargo" how would we keep the birds flying. But as usual, common sense isn't very common!

 

[Akasa]

If you went to China for spares on your Russian OEM sourced fighters you would damage your relationship with the Russians, perhaps irreparably. The Russians are already peeved at the Chinese enough for their IPR infringement of the Su-33 and Su-30. This is out of the question IMHO.

Not only that but the PAF are likely to want to keep their warranties and guarantees intact- going for third party spares would void any such agreements.

The Russians were concerned regarding modifications being done to the PLAAF Su-27 airframe (which resulted in a brand new fighter: the J-11B), but a deal has been worked out in which the Chinese agreed not to export any jets.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Troll one more time like that, and you're gone, do you understand?

Please do whatever you wish to as per your norms. If you found my statement as trolling, then please state what was offensive about it. I made the statement based on a report as attached below which quoted a report from Dawn that is published from Pakistan.
US to Sell 8 F-16 Fighter Jets to Pakistan: Report

It mentioned that "US Congress are concerned that the F-16 jets are more useful to Pakistan in its long confrontation with India than for counter-terrorism operations." Which makes it amply obvious that either Pakistan requested the US for F-16 jets for counter terrorism purposes and/or US is selling them for those very reasons and as far as I know PAF is doing counter terror ops in FATA and Balochistan.

May I request you that if you are in any kind of misunderstanding please seek clarification rather than threatening for consequences. If you still feel i am trolling then please go ahead and ban me. It will be a proud exit for me from this forum.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Please do whatever you wish to as per your norms. If you found my statement as trolling, then please state what was offensive about it. I made the statement based on a report as attached below which quoted a report from Dawn that is published from Pakistan.
US to Sell 8 F-16 Fighter Jets to Pakistan: Report

It mentioned that "US Congress are concerned that the F-16 jets are more useful to Pakistan in its long confrontation with India than for counter-terrorism operations." Which makes it amply obvious that either Pakistan requested the US for F-16 jets for counter terrorism purposes and/or US is selling them for those very reasons and as far as I know PAF is doing counter terror ops in FATA and Balochistan.

May I request you that if you are in any kind of misunderstanding please seek clarification rather than threatening for consequences. If you still feel i am trolling then please go ahead and ban me. It will be a proud exit for me from this forum.

NDTV report - Now we can't expect it to be biased can we?

#indian logic!!

 

[Razia Sultana]

NDTV report - Now we can't expect it to be biased can we?

#indian logic!!

Its not about being biased, its about the accusation of trolling.

 

[OTTOMAN]

White House Set to Sell New Fighter Jets to Pakistan in Bid to Bolster Partnership

Pakistan, senior American officials said, an overture intended to bolster a tenuous partnership despite persistent concerns about Islamabad’s ties to elements of the Taliban and quickly expanding nuclear arsenal.

• 
  The decision comes ahead of President Obama’s meeting on Thursday with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, which is to be dominated by the president’s decision to extend the American troop presence in Afghanistan and a quiet effort to get Mr. Sharif to halt the deployment of a new generation of tactical nuclear weapons.
  
  But Mr. Obama, like President George W. Bush before him, is trying to balance pressure on Pakistan with signs that Washington still considers it a vital ally. Congress was notified just days ago about the proposed sale of the additional fighters, although it is not clear if the White House plans to announce the sale of the aircraft during the visit.
  
  The Federation of American Scientists, a leading American group that monitors the spread of nuclear weapons, published a report on Wednesday that shows that Pakistan has expanded its arsenal to 110 to 130 warheads, up from a range of 90 to 110 four years ago.
  
  While those figures show a steady but expected increase, the group estimated that by 2025 the figure would rise to 220 to 250 warheads. That would make Pakistan the world’s fifth-largest nuclear power, behind the United States, Russia, China and France, but ahead of Britain, which is shrinking its arsenal.
  
  It is the nature, not the size, of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal that tops Mr. Obama’s agenda. Over the past two weeks, officials in Washington have said they are exploring whether a deal might be possible to halt the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons that American experts fear are vulnerable to being launched without authorization, or stolen, on the battlefield. Until earlier this week Pakistani officials had said nothing about the program, although the foreign secretary, Aizaz Chadhary, told reporters in Islamabad on Tuesday that the country had built “low-yield nuclear weapons” to counter India, according to the Dawn, a major daily newspaper in Pakistan.
  
  It is unlikely that either side will talk publicly about nuclear weapons on Thursday, but Mr. Obama plans to raise the issue at length, according to administration officials. Selling Pakistan more arms, however, is an issue that is often discussed more publicly to signal that Pakistan is acting in its role as a “major non-NATO ally,” a designation Mr. Bush bestowed after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
  
  The new aircraft, whose sale could be blocked by Congress, would add to Pakistan’s already sizable force of fighter jets — it has more than 70 F-16s and dozens of French and Chinese attack aircraft. But perhaps of equal importance to supporters and critics alike is the symbolic value of the sale to an ally whose relationship with the United States has been marked by long stretches of acrimony in recent years.
  
  Much of the tension has arisen from Pakistan’s ties to elements of the Taliban, especially the Haqqani Network, which is linked to Al Qaeda and is seen by American commanders as the most deadly faction of the Taliban fighting in Afghanistan. In recent years, numerous American officials have publicly and privately complained about the support to the Haqqanis provided by Pakistan’s main spy agency, the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence.
  
  At the same time, many American officials have continued to insist that the best path forward with Pakistan is to work with its elected leaders and military commanders in hopes of convincing them to crack down on all militants, not just those who actively fight the government there. The Obama administration is also looking for Pakistan to help bring the Taliban to peace talks — an effort that the administration has pursued for years. As a result, officials are loath to antagonize Islamabad at a crucial moment in the war in Afghanistan.
  
  The Afghan peace process appeared to be gaining momentum this summer with meetings between Afghan officials and Taliban representatives in Pakistan. But it was derailed by news that the Taliban’s elusive leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, died about two years ago, and the insurgents have made significant gains in the months since. Late last month they seized a city for the first time since 2001, taking Kunduz, Afghanistan, and holding off Afghan forces for more than two weeks before pulling back.
  
  Fearful that Afghan forces would be outmatched without American support, Mr. Obama announced last week that American troops would remain in Afghanistan through the end of his term. But after 2016, there would only be about 5,500 Americans left in Afghanistan, so the administration is eager to revive the peace process, which is expected to be on the agenda when Mr. Obama and Mr. Sharif meet on Thursday.
  
  While Pakistan has gone after Qaeda operatives since 2001, and allowed the C.I.A. drone program to strike targets in the country’s tribal areas, it has also provided a safe haven for the Taliban and supported elements of the Afghan insurgency. Pakistan has also supported other militant groups fighting in Kashmir and targeting India.
  
  Many in Congress fear that the F-16 jets are more useful to Pakistan in its long confrontation with India than for counterterrorism. It is unclear if Congress will approve the deal: Congress and the State Department are already in a standoff over an effort to sell used Navy cutter vessels to Pakistan earlier this year.
  
  In March, the House Foreign Affairs Committee put a hold on about $150 million in foreign military financing — aid from the United States that foreign allies could use to purchase American weapons and other military equipment, said American officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the issue has not yet been made public.
  
  The committee said the cutters were not essential to fighting militants, the officials said. But in a letter sent in February to Secretary of State John Kerry, Representative Edward Royce of California, the committee’s chairman, and Representative Elliot L. Engel of New York, the ranking Democrat, outlined their broader concerns about Pakistan.
  
  “We remain deeply concerned that Pakistan has failed to take meaningful action against key Islamist terrorist groups operating within its territory,” they wrote.
  
  The letter urged the administration to change its approach to Pakistan, suspend some assistance and begin imposing travel restrictions and sanction officials thought to have ties to militants.
  
  Follow the New York Times’s politics and Washington coverage on Facebook and Twitter, and sign up for theFirst Draft politics newsletter.

Good news for US defence industry and bad news for Pakistan defence industry.