Which AESA radar fits better the JF-17 Block 3?

[Bilal Khan 777]

Correct terminology escaped me then, that's what I meant. Thanks. So generally Pakistan shouldn't have trouble procuring non-ITAR items?

Question: What is the view from an HMD/S? Is the pilot surrounded by an LED like screen? Or is it transparent enough to see the outside clearly and it paints information on top of that view?

HMDS works on the same principle as the HUD. It is a 70/30 ratio of reflect vs/ pass through. HUD visor (you will always see a clear projection visor, and a sun visor on these HMDs) works on the same principal as the HUD glass. This looks like the case for Marconi helmet. However, there are other type of helmets (Top Owl types) that are not projection helmets, rather they are an eye piece monocular, initially CRT now holographic or projection plate / glass transmission technology. I am not a fan of these, as it looks like a condom in one eye.

 

[CriticalThought]

HMDS works on the same principle as the HUD. It is a 70/30 ratio of reflect vs/ pass through. HUD visor (you will always see a clear projection visor, and a sun visor on these HMDs) works on the same principal as the HUD glass. This looks like the case for Marconi helmet. However, there are other type of helmets (Top Owl types) that are not projection helmets, rather they are an eye piece monocular, initially CRT now holographic or projection plate / glass transmission technology. I am not a fan of these, as it looks like a condom in one eye.

WOW. I just gained a new appreciation for the difficulty of fighter pilot job and the need for 20/20 vision. Hats off to our defenders of the skies!!!!

 

[khanasifm]

Per Janes defence fc31 features side-stick controls, a single reconfigurable large multifunction display (MFD), a wide head-up display (HUD) and a new helmet-mounted display similar to the Striker system produced by BAE Systems for use in the Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Chinese Stealth certainly was quite a remarkable achivement in such a short time , even Russians did not finish their proptypes yet

 

[khanasifm]

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19372299

 

[帅的一匹]

They are trying. Its junk though.

where is your arrogance comging from calling it junk?

very unfriendly and disrespectfu, you think Chinese is fool?

HMDS is not alien technology, i can easily assemble a Iphone here in my home town. whne you talk some thing in Western tone, you dont forget you are a Pakistani origin. you dont talk something you dont know.

I think PAF is smarter than you i think？ let them do the choice.

 

[StuartA]

where is your arrogance comging from calling it junk?

very unfriendly and disrespectfu, you think Chinese is fool?

HMDS is not alien technology, i can easily assemble a Iphone here in my home town. whne you talk some thing in Western tone, you dont forget you are a Pakistani origin. you dont talk something you dont know.

I think PAF is smarter than you i think？ let them do the choice.

The old fella just want to get some attention. Everyone with common sense will know he is not in a position to say those big words about Chinese or Pakistani Stuff. Will the Chinese or even Pakistani give the guy access to their highly classified system?

 

[帅的一匹]

KLJ-7A radar has 1000+ T/R but Rafale has 800+ T/R only.

we have 1250 -1400 T/R on J10C, 1600+ T/R on J16, 1800+ T/R on J20(Power capacity 24 KW)

For AESA radars, we only talk about Americans.

I make a correction here, J20's AESA has 2000-2200 T/R module.

The old fella just want to get some attention. Everyone with common sense will know he is not in a position to say those big words about Chinese or Pakistani Stuff. Will the Chinese or even Pakistani give the guy access to their highly classified system?

Like he is a westerner. All human knows that China will offer the source code and vast experience we have gained in J20 development in AESA radar. Still someone doesn't appreciate it, and continue to call our product as junk. that is the right way you treat your friend? Most Pakistani members choice are right and making sense, you don't beg Italian for those lame radar in war time when Nato put another arm embargo on Pakistan, cause PAF will make its own AESA at that time. It's an open tender, competition welcomed. This time we will win with better specification not some 'no strings attached'.

I'm fully confident on KLJ7A, entirely.

Inshallah

 

[CHI RULES]

Dear members what I have got from here an there the Italian Vixen 1000E offered to Pak has better range than Chinese KLJ7A mean while the IRST is also in built with it. The Italian's radars are more matured and being used in past satisfactorily by Pak.

If we have to chose between the two following factors should be considered excluding cost factor.

1) Source code. ( Even Italian shall be willing in medium time span considering monetary benefits.
2) Rafael/ expected IAF stealthy/semi stealthy jets expected radar ranges.

3)IRST options whether inbuilt or podded. It is obvious that IRST with vixen is inbuilt meanwhile KLJ7A will require podded IRST covering at least on hard point.

4) Integration with expected ammo.

Both mentioned Radars may be produced in Pak in medium to long term but in short term one should be doubtful that such complicated tech shall be mastered by Pak.

The crux as per my understanding is that both options have own pros and cons, then their is another option also to consider both Radars i.e. The older version of JF 17 block-1/2 should be up graded with KLJ7A along with podded IRST. Meanwhile Block 3 for domestic use should have Vixen 1000E radar/IRST to counter Rafael/ expected future platforms. Mean while the Block 3 version for exports may be offered with KLJ7A/podded IRST, as it is obvious that Italian option shall not only be costly but Italians may be reluctant for their sensitive tech to be exported to many countries which are future potential buyers of JF17.
On one hand Pak should go for JV in case of Vixen meanwhile also go for further development of KLJ7A with our Chinese friends.
In the past Pak has helped Chinese regarding further development of their fighter jets based upon PAF experience with Western Jets.

Depends on the U.S. If they approve the sale of AN/APG-83s, I reckon the PAF would want to upgrade the 18 Block-52+ since those fighters are expected to stay in service the longest.

The F-16A/Bs are reaching their 8,000 hour lifespan, but if there are 2,000+ hours left on average, then it's a discretion call; South Korea is paying around $7 million per plane for its radar and avionics upgrade (link).

ACM Sohail Aman also said that the PAF is still engaged with the U.S. for F-16s. I think it's plausible to imagine a purchase (or request) of 18 new-built F-16s. If they ask for new F-16Vs and upgrade the Block-52+, they would have 36 AESA-equipped F-16s.

Dear Sir, your above statement is quite positive but considering current scenario do you honestly think that Pak may get AESA from USA. On the other hand I wonder why senior members gave such ideas which are obviously can't be materialized i.e integration of Vixen with Pak F16s.

 

[帅的一匹]

Dear members what I have got from here an there the Italian Vixen 1000E offered to Pak has better range than Chinese KLJ7A mean while the IRST is also in built with it. The Italian's radars are more matured and being used in past satisfactorily by Pak.

If we have to chose between the two following factors should be considered excluding cost factor.

1) Source code. ( Even Italian shall be willing in medium time span considering monetary benefits.
2) Rafael/ expected IAF stealthy/semi stealthy jets expected radar ranges.

3)IRST options whether inbuilt or podded. It is obvious that IRST with vixen is inbuilt meanwhile KLJ7A will require podded IRST covering at least on hard point.

4) Integration with expected ammo.

Both mentioned Radars may be produced in Pak in medium to long term but in short term one should be doubtful that such complicated tech shall be mastered by Pak.

The crux as per my understanding is that both options have own pros and cons, then their is another option also to consider both Radars i.e. The older version of JF 17 block-1/2 should be up graded with KLJ7A along with podded IRST. Meanwhile Block 3 for domestic use should have Vixen 1000E radar/IRST to counter Rafael/ expected future platforms. Mean while the Block 3 version for exports may be offered with KLJ7A/podded IRST, as it is obvious that Italian option shall not only be costly but Italians may be reluctant for their sensitive tech to be exported to many countries which are future potential buyers of JF17.
On one hand Pak should go for JV in case of Vixen meanwhile also go for further development of KLJ7A with our Chinese friends.
In the past Pak has helped Chinese regarding further development of their fighter jets based upon PAF experience with Western Jets.



Dear Sir, your above statement is quite positive but considering current scenario do you honestly think that Pak may get AESA from USA. On the other hand I wonder why senior members gave such ideas which are obviously can't be materialized i.e integration of Vixen with Pak F16s.

Bro How do you know China will allow Export kLJ7A (a classified type as of yet)to a third country outside Pakistani. What's the big of IRST incorporated in AESA, we can do it anytime we want. I think J20 does have IRST incorporated in AESA already, not a big deal at all. If Italy can sell Vixen to Pakistan, it call sell it to anyone theoretically who is not on the black list. At current technology reserve of China in AESA , we can offer any solution Italy can offer and can't offer. All the Chinese weapon package need to be replaced if you convert to Vixen1000. And we don't talking about the TOT and Price issues, big headache for Italians.

KLJ7A is designed to maximize SD10A's performance for its best flight envelope. JF17 is a collaborative programme, which means is Half and half.

@MastanKhan Khan the logic here is becoming very confusing, i better give up.

Pakistan want to get know how to build a AESA or buy off the shelf? This time China will bind the radar with weapon package in sales. If we break the rules, Chinese weapon will be cheap forever.

I my eyes, the promotion of Vixen is another cheap try by the west to sabotage the JF17 indeginization of Pakistan. You wan to build AESA yourself or continue to buy off the shelf like India did? Make clear of yourslef!

With Chinese great leap in AESA, it will become as cheap as cabbage in the market. The last chance of Italian to promote Vixen.

Period, no more post.

 

[ghazi768]

Dear members what I have got from here an there the Italian Vixen 1000E offered to Pak has better range than Chinese KLJ7A mean while the IRST is also in built with it. The Italian's radars are more matured and being used in past satisfactorily by Pak.

If we have to chose between the two following factors should be considered excluding cost factor.

1) Source code. ( Even Italian shall be willing in medium time span considering monetary benefits.
2) Rafael/ expected IAF stealthy/semi stealthy jets expected radar ranges.

3)IRST options whether inbuilt or podded. It is obvious that IRST with vixen is inbuilt meanwhile KLJ7A will require podded IRST covering at least on hard point.

4) Integration with expected ammo.

Both mentioned Radars may be produced in Pak in medium to long term but in short term one should be doubtful that such complicated tech shall be mastered by Pak.

The crux as per my understanding is that both options have own pros and cons, then their is another option also to consider both Radars i.e. The older version of JF 17 block-1/2 should be up graded with KLJ7A along with podded IRST. Meanwhile Block 3 for domestic use should have Vixen 1000E radar/IRST to counter Rafael/ expected future platforms. Mean while the Block 3 version for exports may be offered with KLJ7A/podded IRST, as it is obvious that Italian option shall not only be costly but Italians may be reluctant for their sensitive tech to be exported to many countries which are future potential buyers of JF17.
On one hand Pak should go for JV in case of Vixen meanwhile also go for further development of KLJ7A with our Chinese friends.
In the past Pak has helped Chinese regarding further development of their fighter jets based upon PAF experience with Western Jets.



Dear Sir, your above statement is quite positive but considering current scenario do you honestly think that Pak may get AESA from USA. On the other hand I wonder why senior members gave such ideas which are obviously can't be materialized i.e integration of Vixen with Pak F16s.

There are two things to a radar, what ever type, its gain and power and second its algorithms. I do not think Vixen in range is better than whats offered by China. Algorithms are all about 'seeing is believing' when you actually test in different scenarios. And no one can beat US technology in this but I believe Chinese are getting near.. very near.

But choosing a Chinese option can result in many side benefits which in longer run may actually be of strategical importance.. TOT I think is what guys here can easily understand but you may end with your own manufacturing fabs rather than importing ICs. ASICs, if doctored with, there is even no way to find out.. FPGAs have their own pros and cons. But having a full TOT with fabs an open up the door to completely design and manufacture your own avionics and have true independence. Such a chance had never been provided and will never be provided by a western manufacturer.

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

There are two things to a radar, what ever type, its gain and power and second its algorithms. I do not think Vixen in range is better than whats offered by China. Algorithms are all about 'seeing is believing' when you actually test in different scenarios. And no one can beat US technology in this but I believe Chinese are getting near.. very near.

But choosing a Chinese option can result in many side benefits which in longer run may actually be of strategical importance.. TOT I think is what guys here can easily understand but you may end with your own manufacturing fabs rather than importing ICs. ASICs, if doctored with, there is even no way to find out.. FPGAs have their own pros and cons. But having a full TOT with fabs an open up the door to completely design and manufacture your own avionics and have true independence. Such a chance had never been provided and will never be provided by a western manufacturer.

Bro here is only one thing its all about dollar $$$$$, if Pak offer more dollar, they will ready for TOT as well.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

The old fella just want to get some attention. Everyone with common sense will know he is not in a position to say those big words about Chinese or Pakistani Stuff. Will the Chinese or even Pakistani give the guy access to their highly classified system?

You are right my mong friend. I am just an old fella who is looking for attention. Everyone with common sense knows that I am not in any position. LOL. Good harvest to you. Behold another Chinese expert.

where is your arrogance comging from calling it junk?

very unfriendly and disrespectfu, you think Chinese is fool?

HMDS is not alien technology, i can easily assemble a Iphone here in my home town. whne you talk some thing in Western tone, you dont forget you are a Pakistani origin. you dont talk something you dont know.

I think PAF is smarter than you i think？ let them do the choice.

Yes, you are also right. Build to Print iPhones makes you smart. I know nothing. Behold our new China / Pakistan experts. I guess it is time to retire.

Bro How do you know China will allow Export kLJ7A (a classified type as of yet)to a third country outside Pakistani. What's the big of IRST incorporated in AESA, we can do it anytime we want. I think J20 does have IRST incorporated in AESA already, not a big deal at all. If Italy can sell Vixen to Pakistan, it call sell it to anyone theoretically who is not on the black list. At current technology reserve of China in AESA , we can offer any solution Italy can offer and can't offer. All the Chinese weapon package need to be replaced if you convert to Vixen1000. And we don't talking about the TOT and Price issues, big headache for Italians.

KLJ7A is designed to maximize SD10A's performance for its best flight envelope. JF17 is a collaborative programme, which means is Half and half.

@MastanKhan Khan the logic here is becoming very confusing, i better give up.

Pakistan want to get know how to build a AESA or buy off the shelf? This time China will bind the radar with weapon package in sales. If we break the rules, Chinese weapon will be cheap forever.

I my eyes, the promotion of Vixen is another cheap try by the west to sabotage the JF17 indeginization of Pakistan. You wan to build AESA yourself or continue to buy off the shelf like India did? Make clear of yourslef!

With Chinese great leap in AESA, it will become as cheap as cabbage in the market. The last chance of Italian to promote Vixen.

Period, no more post.

Now put down the People's Republic flag for a second and tell us which unit you are from boy?

 

[帅的一匹]

You are right my mong friend. I am just an old fella who is looking for attention. Everyone with common sense knows that I am not in any position. LOL. Good harvest to you. Behold another Chinese expert.



Yes, you are also right. Build to Print iPhones makes you smart. I know nothing. Behold our new China / Pakistan experts. I guess it is time to retire.



Now put down the People's Republic flag for a second and tell us which unit you are from boy?

My father served in the PLA army for 30 years and my uncle served in PLA navy for 20 years. I grow up in a military family. If Chinese people know a Pakistani wantonly called Chinese weapon are junk, you know the negative effect. I will keep it here, will not tell other Chinese in Chinese forum. I feel really bad! Very bad! I'm very angry at your comment!

I didn't feel so angry like today since I join this forum. It's an open insult to your ally, your best friend.

I feel you are insane.

Usually Barahtis in this forum call Chinese weapon junk, and you are the first Pakistani doing so. For Lord sake, what are you doing?

These days are getting crazy.......

I mean if PAF think Vixen is better after the evaluation, I've got nothing to say. Do you think calling Chinese HMDS junk out of no where is somehow too arbitrary and insulting? I can't accept it.

@xuxu1457 what this guy is doing is totally beyond my recognition, I don't know what to do. Just feel bad

 

[Tameem]

@Bilal Khan 777 Sir, i think there are better ways to describes any weapon not upto the mark in your understandings instead of calling it mere junk, this is utter frustration suits only for kids not you.