Where does Pakistan stand on Iran??

[ashley.1965]

Your reference is wikipedia , its not authentic source of info.

Not true in general. The relevant parts of the Wikipedia entry are in fact a word-for-word copy of the statement available on the website of none other than the Embassy of Iran in Pakistan itself. You can verify this at the following link:

iranembassy.pk/en/political-section/592-pak-iran-relations-since-islamic-revolution-genisis-of-cooperatio-and-competition.html

 

[Armstrong]

Spiritual hq the twelver Pakistanis do, maybe not the Ismailis but twelvers yeah.

You would forgive me if I were to disagree based on my interaction with my Shia friends mostly in real-life & occasionally over the net including the Shias we've got on PDF !

Just ask @DESERT FIGHTER if Iran is his Spiritual HQ !

 

[FaujHistorian]

In the event of a conflict between US/Zionists and Iran, where does Pakistan stand?

....?

C'mon dear.

We can't have this discussion without a hot cup of chai. That will like doing something without foreplay. painful and dry!

You have already tipped the scale by using the word US AND Zionist.

What's there to ask?


OK OK I'll add my obligatory points. Do not lose your little heart.

1. Pakistani media - Will go mad when you mention the two magic words. USA and Zionism. Obviously they will support Iran.

2. Pakistani Army (and little government)- Well they are more pragmatic. Dare I say.



Peace


p.s. Hope such war doesn't happen. Ayatullah-hoo-hoos get some sanity before it is too late. I like Iranian culture and US culture too much to see them come to blows.

p.p.s. I hope Assad the butcher leaves Syria soon.

 

[RazorMC]

What about Shias and Tehran ??

Tehran is certainly important for the Shia community in Pakistan. But it is no Karbala, and therefore, not worth dying for. And Shias in Pakistan are Pakistani, not Iranian.

 

[Pyre]

What about Shias and Tehran ??

Tehran is certainly important for the Shia community in Pakistan. But it is no Karbala, and therefore, not worth dying for. And Shias in Pakistan are Pakistani, not Iranian.

Well, this leads into the footnote of my post.

Lebanon = Shi'a majority.
Syria = ruled by Shi'a and allied with Shi'a.
Iran = Vast majority shi'a.

The missing link in the middle is of course...Karbala. Don't you think Iranians/Lebanese/Syrians, will try to take it after they have beaten the syrian rebels? Geographically it's in a perfect position for them to hit from both sides, and take.

So you're saying Pakistani shi'a will go to war for Karbala? Even if not in the interest of their nation??

Strategially, Pakistan forms another part of this "Shi'a belt" with about 20% right? (correct me if i'm wrong). The one which encloses saudiya? Look at the map. And let's face it, the northern side, beyond the arabian peninsula (pak/iran), in my opinion is much stronger and more capable than the southern side beyond it (sudan, egpyt).

Btw: I'm not a sunni or a shi'a, the Arabian side of my family are totally non-religious and atheistic, but i have observed that shi'a elements are gaining alot of strength in the region. I'm not taking sides and saying one side is good and the other is bad, i'm not an emotional person. I'm simply observing and discussing.

 

[darkinsky]

Well, this leads into the footnote of my post.

Lebanon = Shi'a majority.
Syria = ruled by Shi'a and allied with Shi'a.
Iran = Vast majority shi'a.

The missing link in the middle is of course...Karbala. Don't you think Iranians/Lebanese/Syrians, will try to take it after they have beaten the syrian rebels? Geographically it's in a perfect position for them to hit from both sides, and take.

So you're saying Pakistani shi'a will go to war for Karbala? Even if not in the interest of their nation??

Strategially, Pakistan forms another part of this "Shi'a belt" with about 20% right? (correct me if i'm wrong). The one which encloses saudiya? Look at the map. And let's face it, the northern side, beyond the arabian peninsula (pak/iran), in my opinion is much stronger and more capable than the southern side beyond it (sudan, egpyt).

Btw: I'm not a sunni or a shi'a, the Arabian side of my family are totally non-religious and atheistic, but i have observed that shi'a elements are gaining alot of strength in the region. I'm not taking sides and saying one side is good and the other is bad, i'm not an emotional person. I'm simply observing and discussing.

ya akhi, as a bakistani broblem in the middle is least of our broblems, al bakistani not concerned with broblems of middle east, sort your sectarian issues out yourselves

 

[Shahin Vatani]

On Iran - We have problems with their ardent & continued design to export their Revolution to anywhere with even a semblance of Shia population just as we have a problem with the Saudis of doing the same & thereby fighting out their proxy wars on our turf with our sell-out Governments doing nothing about it.

Hey Armstrong. I have heard Pakistanis, especially you, talking a lot about Iran trying to export revolution to Pakistan and some talk about Iranian cultural centres and stuff. Can you tell me exactly what Iran has done and also do you have any proof?

Spiritual hq the twelver Pakistanis do, maybe not the Ismailis but twelvers yeah.

Ismailis look up to the Agha Khan, not Iran.

 

[Armstrong]

Hey Armstrong. I have heard Pakistanis, especially you, talking a lot about Iran trying to export revolution to Pakistan and some talk about Iranian cultural centres and stuff. Can you tell me exactly what Iran has done and also do you have any proof?

No...no proof except anecdotal evidence & because both I & other Pakistanis have seen & experienced the Saudi-Iran proxy wars ourselves, we don't really need evidence admissible in a court to know what the Saudi funded Madrassas & the Iranian Cultural Centers are up to.

I've known people in the past & I've met many others who were associated with the SSM & Tehreek-i-Jafriya - two Shia militant groups - who were getting everything from funding to quite a bit more from the same Cultural Centers.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

No...no proof except anecdotal evidence & because both I & other Pakistanis have seen & experienced the Saudi-Iran proxy wars ourselves, we don't really need evidence admissible in a court to know what the Saudi funded Madrassas & the Iranian Cultural Centers are up to.

I've known people in the past & I've met many others who were associated with the SSM & Tehreek-i-Jafriya - two Shia militant groups - who were getting everything from funding to quite a bit more from the same Cultural Centers.

Well, the way I see it, it is obvious to see what is happening due to Salafi teachings in Pakistan. There is plenty of bombings and what-not which all relate to the Salafi school of thought. But I have never seen any Iranian style bombings, or proxies in Pakistan. Also it's not like we couldn't set them up if we wanted to. For example take a look at places we have actively tried to set up/fund organisations, such as Hezbollah, Mahdi Army etc...

I doubt very much Iran has tried to meddle in Pakistan's internal affairs, at least there is minimal evidence to support that.

 

[Armstrong]

Well, the way I see it, it is obvious to see what is happening due to Salafi teachings in Pakistan. There is plenty of bombings and what-not which all relate to the Salafi school of thought. But I have never seen any Iranian style bombings, or proxies in Pakistan. Also it's not like we couldn't set them up if we wanted to. For example take a look at places we have actively tried to set up/fund organisations, such as Hezbollah, Mahdi Army etc...

I doubt very much Iran has tried to meddle in Pakistan's internal affairs, at least there is minimal evidence to support that.

We'd seen enough of the funding, the organizations & the vicious cycle of target killings between the Saudi funded & the Iranian funded proxies in the '80s, the '90s & even the early '00s before Iran's international isolation & the Sunni militants forming a nexus with the Taliban, the Al-Qaeeda etc. making any continued support & the continued operations of the Shia militant groups completely untenable - thats why you don't see them any more. Right now the Sunni militants are our more pressing problem with them running rampant killing all & sundry - Sunni, Shia, Minority - You name it !

And the reason it never picked up in much the same way it did when it came to Hezbollah or Mahdi's Army is because there are elements that kill but there isn't a Sunni-Shia schism in Pakistan per se - We've intermarried & lived & loved each other too much to have our two societies facing down at each other.

 

[Pyre]

ya akhi, as a bakistani broblem in the middle is least of our broblems, al bakistani not concerned with broblems of middle east, sort your sectarian issues out yourselves

Well, you are one of the few Nuclear powers in the region. I think that automatically obligates certain responsibilities as far as your surrounding areas are concerned. I don't live in the Arabian peninsula, i wasn't born there, nor do i really care about it. It just represents some of my ethnic background. I'm asking where Pakistan stands on an issue, which seems basic to me and you're trying to pretend like these issues don't affect you?

 

[Shahin Vatani]

We'd seen enough of the funding, the organizations & the vicious cycle of target killings between the Saudi funded & the Iranian funded proxies in the '80s, the '90s & even the early '00s before Iran's international isolation & the Sunni militants forming a nexus with the Taliban, the Al-Qaeeda etc. making any continued support & the continued operations of the Shia militant groups completely untenable - thats why you don't see them any more. Right now the Sunni militants are our more pressing problem with them running rampant killing all & sundry - Sunni, Shia, Minority - You name it !

Iran has allies in plenty of areas with Taliban and Al-Qaeda elements. Such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and so on. So I doubt that the rise in power of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda would stop Iran actively supporting Shia elements inside Pakistan, unless we never had any intention to.

And the reason it never picked up in much the same way it did when it came to Hezbollah or Mahdi's Army is because there are elements that kill but there isn't a Sunni-Shia schism in Pakistan per se - We've intermarried & lived & loved each other too much to have our two societies facing down at each other.

I don't want to get into Pakistan's internal matters, however I am not sure if I fully believe that. I am sure that the majority of Pakistanis get on perfectly well with each other, but from what I can tell there is definitely a strong fringe element which hates other sects. Much more so then in Lebanon (where sectarianism is not much of an issue). We can even see that in this forum, where some Pakistanis accuse others who are Shia of being "agents of Iran".

All in all I believe Iran could fund the Shia in Pakistan if we wanted to. But it is not in our interest, as we do not want to cause further instability in Pakistan, which would directly affect us.

 

[Pyre]

Well, the way I see it, it is obvious to see what is happening due to Salafi teachings in Pakistan. There is plenty of bombings and what-not which all relate to the Salafi school of thought. But I have never seen any Iranian style bombings, or proxies in Pakistan. Also it's not like we couldn't set them up if we wanted to. For example take a look at places we have actively tried to set up/fund organisations, such as Hezbollah, Mahdi Army etc...

I doubt very much Iran has tried to meddle in Pakistan's internal affairs, at least there is minimal evidence to support that.

Btw, i support Iran's right to nuclear energy/weapon capabilities. My thread has no agenda other than to find out where Pakistan stands since this is a Pakistani forum. Unfortunately, people have made all kinds of emotional presumptions about where i stand.

 

[Kaniska]

In the event of a conflict between US/Zionists and Iran, where does Pakistan stand?

More to the point, does Pakistan view this situation through any sectarian lens?
How much of Pakistan is shi'a and do the shi'a give solidarity with Iran, for example such as Lebanese shi'a are pro-Iran, whereas Lebanese sunni are anti-Iran?
Will that even play a role or does Pakistan look at it only from a gains/losses view?

Being a nuclear power close by, i think either way, Israel has made it's position clear saying that Iran has already crossed the red-line and that they would like to attack in a matter of weeks now.

I'm starting to think that potentially, United States will not involve themselves at all and it will just be israel launching the attack, what do you think?

On a side note...
Do you think that Hezbollahs involvement in Syria is the beginning of new Shi'a coalition? Where Iran + Hezbollah + Assad, will also push through northern Iraq, creating a Shi'ite stronghold (because Iraq is almost half or majority shi'a), virtually enclosing the Saudis??

Both are dangerous option...Pakistan should learn from China....Associate with people in pure economic aspect...do not get indulged in their diplomatic and political games...In any way middle east is already messed up....who ever will take side..will go to hell..

 

[Pyre]

Both are dangerous option...Pakistan should learn from China....Associate with people in pure economic aspect...do not get indulged in their diplomatic and political games...In any way middle east is already messed up....who ever will take side..will go to hell..

So assuming conflict ensues, you think their role should be 100% non-interventional?
This sounds like a great recommendation and what i would lean toward also.

However, isn't there any official policy or official stance on this issue yet? Doesn't anyone know this?