When Our Brave Lashkars Were Knocking at the Gates of Srinagar and Beyond

[Sal12]

One needs to understand that these tribals were untrained, unskilled and not regulars against Indian Army who are supported by British. Still Indian army couldn't get much of the territory from them.

 

[Pakistani E]

Respect to these brave men, and the people of Gilgit Baltistan and AJK who rose up against the tyrant. Respect also to others who came to help and organise, including my maternal grandfather. Bless you all.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is military history, Chacha, not Philosophy.

I hold myself accountable to each and everyone of you for the authenticity of my facts.

No anti-tank weaponry of viable capability to counter the Stuarts.

Possibly; I do not know what those artillery pieces were. If they were mountain guns, with HE shells only, I am perfectly willing to accept your qualification. For a States Forces contingent, nothing more might have been available; they were trained for defence of Chitral, after all, and the enemy was to the west, not the east.

One needs to understand that these tribals were untrained, unskilled and not regulars against Indian Army who are supported by British. Still Indian army couldn't get much of the territory from them.

They got Leh (under siege), Kargil (captured) and large sections of West Jammu, including Poonch and Rajauri. They did not get Skardu, more than half of Baltistan, Muzaffarabad and the Sudan area, and the whole of Gilgit.

 

[PanzerKiel]

My grandfather was part of the group which led to capture of zolja pass, they couldn't hold it as indian heavy equipment such as tanks and artillery forced them to abandon it along with the ceasefire.

First attacks by IA against Zoji La were made by a brigade supported by artillery and aerial strafing. Maj Jarral was in command at Zoji La. A Gurkha company under Maj Raj Singh tried to outflank the position but was badly ambushed and repelled.

After this, a deliberate attack by the brigade (Commanded by Brigadier Atal, with 4 infantry battalions), after 6 days of artillery and air strafing, was launched on 6 September. This attack was repelled. NExt attack came on 14 September. This time, Brig Thimayya and Brig Shrinagesh were also present at Brig Atal's tactical HQ. This attack was also heavily repulsed by Maj Jarral.

 

[Sal12]

This is military history, Chacha, not Philosophy.

I hold myself accountable to each and everyone of you for the authenticity of my facts.



Possibly; I do not know what those artillery pieces were. If they were mountain guns, with HE shells only, I am perfectly willing to accept your qualification. For a States Forces contingent, nothing more might have been available; they were trained for defence of Chitral, after all, and the enemy was to the west, not the east.



They got Leh (under siege), Kargil (captured) and large sections of West Jammu, including Poonch and Rajauri. They did not get Skardu, more than half of Baltistan, Muzaffarabad and the Sudan area, and the whole of Gilgit.

Kargil is a very very small town in terms of land. Poonch and Rajouri are just across LOC.

These tribals did keep Muzafarrabad, Mirpur, Bagh and Neelam Valley. The point is that these tribals did not lose as much land as they saved it what was in their possession.

 

[THE DESERT FOX]

I think we had captured poonch but later had to fall back. However the part of kashmir we had won back in 1948 not only has significant impact on the politics of south asia but of the geopolitics of the entire world.India would have direct excess to the then Soviet Union which would be terrible for pakistan and also would get road linkage to a future rival of pakistan (afghanistan).India would also outflank pakistan and enter into our territory at its will. India would have acces to central asian markets in the future but most importantly the road link bw pakistan and china would have been cut so all the credit goes to the lashkars and brave tribal people only if the british had not decieved (first Mountbatten and Radcliffe and then auchinlek and gracey)us we could have greater chunks of kashmir in green .
If any one wants to know more about this war he can read the book THE KASHMIR CAMPAIGN it gives full detail of the war of 1948-49
Apart from 1948 and 1962 we also had the opportunity to occupy kashmir in 1965 when Maj shabbir shareefs 10th infantry brigade was just waiting to capture the prized Akhnoor bridge and the entire indian army in kashmir would have been cut off but the we pulled the brigade out of that sector and sent it to support the actions in sialkot sector.
Even men like Maj Shabbir said that they had not been led well

 

[Joe Shearer]

Kargil is a very very small town in terms of land. Poonch and Rajouri are just across LOC.

These tribals did keep Muzafarrabad, Mirpur, Bagh and Neelam Valley. The point is that these tribals did not lose as much land as they saved it what was in their possession.

So was Skardu a very, very small town in terms of land; the Gilgit Scouts laid siege to it for a full year before its small band of States Forces defenders surrendered,and were slaughtered.

Muzaffarabad, Mirpur, Bagh and the Neelam Valley, just across the LOC, were preserved not by the tribals brought in from the NWFP, but by the inhabitants of the region, the Sudans, over 80,000 of whom had served in the British Indian Army and had been demobilised two years before.

If you look at what the tribals themselves secured for Pakistan, you would really have to look very hard.

 

[Suriya]

@Joe Shearer if you can elaborate upon and shed more light on glorious accomplishment of these Tribal raiders in the places like Muzaffarabad and Baramulla.
We have some descendants of those raiders here, they would love to know more about them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer if you can elaborate upon and shed more light on glorious accomplishment of these Tribal raiders in the places like Muzaffarabad and Baramulla.
We have some descendants of those raiders here, they would love to know more about them.

Ask them to read Tariq Ali on the subject.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baramulla

 

[Sal12]

So was Skardu a very, very small town in terms of land; the Gilgit Scouts laid siege to it for a full year before its small band of States Forces defenders surrendered,and were slaughtered.

Muzaffarabad, Mirpur, Bagh and the Neelam Valley, just across the LOC, were preserved not by the tribals brought in from the NWFP, but by the inhabitants of the region, the Sudans, over 80,000 of whom had served in the British Indian Army and had been demobilised two years before.

If you look at what the tribals themselves secured for Pakistan, you would really have to look very hard.

You have your own history created by your media channels in which tribals were involved in looting, raping and killing while you inconveniently forgetting the lacs of muslims in Jammu butchered by dogra forces for Maharaja.

They were the poorly armed tribals who saved Muzaffarabad, Mirpur, Bagh and the Neelam Valley and made sure that they ended up in AJK otherwise they would have ended up in IOK like part of poonch and Rajori. No lie can be bigger than this that 80,000 Sudans liberated these lands.

 

[Cuirassier]

@Joe Shearer if you can elaborate upon and shed more light on glorious accomplishment of these Tribal raiders in the places like Muzaffarabad and Baramulla.
We have some descendants of those raiders here, they would love to know more about them.

As if jathas did zilch. Can't expect much from bounty-driven armed civilians.

 

[Cuirassier]

You have your own history created by your media channels in which tribals were involved in looting, raping and killing while you inconveniently forgetting the lacs of muslims in Jammu butchered by dogra forces for Maharaja.

They were the poorly armed tribals who saved Muzaffarabad, Mirpur, Bagh and the Neelam Valley and made sure that they ended up in AJK otherwise they would have ended up in IOK like part of poonch and Rajori. No lie can be bigger than this that 80,000 Sudans liberated these lands.

Tribal involvement was supportive of Azad Kashmir Regular Forces. The latter comprised of locals and was campaigning since before the tribal involvment. Even the initial push to Srinagar was led by Major Aslam ex-State Forces with 1 AK elements - supplemented by tribals.

 

[MastanKhan]

We as a nation will always regret missing two golden opportunities to take Kashmir, one in 1947/48 and the other in 1962. Both mainly due to the slow reaction of the top brass than.Today i will not focus on the details of operations conducted by the volunteers who took part in the freedom of Kashmir.
COMPOSITION OF THE VOLUNTEER FORCES
The volunteer Lashkars comprised mainly from.
1)22 Lashkars from similar no of tribes with a strength of 25000-30000 men.
2)AJK irregular forces led by Sardar Ibrahim with a strength of 6000 men.
3)Scots from different agencies mainly Kurrum and Gilgit 1500 men.
4)Retired army personnel and Muslim league guards 2000 men.
5)State soldiers of Swat,Dir and Chitral 3000 men.
6) Some volunteers from religious outfits 1000 men.
(The above numbers are approximately correct)

VOLUNTEERS IN PICTURES
a) Tribemen from Waziristan

b) Afridi Volunteers

View attachment 632963

c)Mohmand Tribesmen

d)Miscellaneous Tribemen

e)Men from Swat state

f)Volunteer from Kurrum Militia

There are many more images of volunteers.

VICTORIES OF THE VOLUNTEER LASHKARS
What these brave men achieve in the initial days of the conflict was unprecedented. In the very first month they had reached the outskirts of Srinagar and had the Dogra forces surrounded.

Within a year they were near Leh, the capital of Ladakh.

The Royal Pakistan army could not join the War initially because of Field Marshall Auchinleck. The Army entered a year later in 1948, by that time it was a bit too late.
We are all praise for these brave men who endured a lot for Pakistan. They remained away from their homes for months,many embraced martyrdom and many got injured. We Pakistanis will always be grateful for their sacrifices for the motherland. Hazrat Allama Iqbals poetic phrase below truly depicts these brave men.
View attachment 632968

Hi,

So---here is the truth about the 47-48 attack by the tribals---. The attack stopped 20-maybe 30 miles before srinagar---.

Why---because the tribal Lashkar started looting the town---. Seeing that---the leaders begged them to stop looting and if they wanted to loot---there is a bigger town a few miles ahead to loot.

No one paid heed to that---.

I am pretty sure that there were lots of Pathans with character and honor---but the majority were looters and opportunists---and that gave enough time for the indian army to land and take charge of sri nagar---.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You have your own history created by your media channels in which tribals were involved in looting, raping and killing while you inconveniently forgetting the lacs of muslims in Jammu butchered by dogra forces for Maharaja.

They were the poorly armed tribals who saved Muzaffarabad, Mirpur, Bagh and the Neelam Valley and made sure that they ended up in AJK otherwise they would have ended up in IOK like part of poonch and Rajori. No lie can be bigger than this that 80,000 Sudans liberated these lands.

Please. Spare me.

NOT A SINGLE FACT QUOTED BY ME IS FROM INDIAN SOURCES.

In addition, please read post #57 and #58.

Also, please read through my posts and acknowledge that I have only responded to posts by others. The question of my adding detail or failing to add it does not arise.

 

[Gentelman]

History is a gone matter....
Now lets focus on today when they are surrounding us from buying our Politicians and bureaucrates and halting strategically important projects like Kalabagh Dam and other projects to starting insurgency from Balochistan to Tribals, from supporting and funding international campaigns against us to launching cyber war and creating fake media outlets to demean us, from water terrorism to economic terrorism in FATF....
List is never ending, we have to get strong so that our todays friends may remain our friends and can't be bought unlike Arabs, Iranians and Afghans....
It can only be achieved by working and getting on our feet!