When Jinah Met Muslim brotherhood leadership

[Zarvan]

@Aeronaut @Leader @WebMaster @Antibody @nuclearpak @Oscar @Major Sam @through pro @RazPaK @Zakii @Arsalan @araz @fatman17 and others

 

[Leader]

holy

Saudi Arabia Promises to Aid Egypt's Regime

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-vows-to-back-egypts-rulers.html?pagewanted=all

more:

Saudi Arabia's foreign minister has voiced support for the crackdown by Egypt's military-backed interim government on members of the Muslim Brotherhood.


Saud al-Faisal released a statement on Monday. He said a terrorist group is threatening Egypt's stability and the nation's authorities should deal firmly with the threat.

Saud said some countries are freezing financial aid for Egypt, but he suggested Saudi Arabia will continue sending assistance.

Leaders of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates imposed restrictions on activities by the Muslim Brotherhood in their country.

@Zarvan sab iqtadar ka khail hay piyaray !!

 

[Al Bhatti]

I posted some pics some 2 years back and some sources.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle-east-africa/137827-muslim-brotherhood-movement.html

 

[Arsalan]

Muslim Brotherhood also have some close ties with Pakistani Jamaat-i-Islami.

What is happening is Egypt is absolutely in-human, what is even more disgusting is countries like Saudia Arabia and UAE (both Muslim states) supporting the violence against innocent people.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Here is Dr. Ayesha's take on this thread (via twitter):

Ayesha Siddiqa ‏@iamthedrifter Protected account 3h
But then Jinah was also negotiating with the rabid Ahraris a well - When Jinah Met Muslim brotherhood leadership: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...therhood-leadership.html#.UhL1Ntz2dKo.twitter …

Thank God our Quaid was not a Liberal like we now have in Pakistan. In a few years I fully expect his pronouncements on Palestine issue to vanish altogether. I do not know what material are these people made of.

We need ENGAGEMENT not DEBASEMENT!!!!!

Unless our elites learn to share power with Islamists, there would hardly be any stability or peace in Islamic world. We need steadfast support for democracy in line with our ethos as Muslims. Liberal's neutering of dialogue and debasement of a significant part of educated population will only strengthen our internal contradictions. Will anyone ever learn anything from Egypt of today????

 

[Chak Bamu]

@Zarvan, I appreciate you thanking my post, but brother you are one of those people who spread the story that democracy is not for Muslims and that it is against Islam. I have argued in the past and I shall keep arguing in the future against this oft-repeated opinion held by Mullahs who know that democracy shall come at the cost of their support from masses. What they do not see is that the positive changes will be immensely favorable to Muslims all around the world and help us establish peace. Their rhetoric is deeply flawed in itself.

We have been on opposing sides in this matter and I suspect your support is not for democracy in Egypt, but for Mursi in view of his Islamist background.

While one can describe an Islamist as someone who hopes to use politics in establishing Islamic government. There is a further division, and it is increasingly important.

There are Islamists who wish to ignore democracy and establish an Islamist government. The said government could be dictatorship with an appointed assembly ala secular dictatorships in Arab world, or an Oligarchy with a small number of people holding power. And then there are those who wish to establish democracy in order to have an Islamic oriented government. This latter variety of Islamists believe that with constitutional safeguards, democracy is the best bet in establishing a stable system of governance that is open, transparent, and effective in today's world. You my friend (seems to me) belong to the former group, while I am firmly in the latter group. There is a lot of confusion out there and I suppose I could write a book on this issue.

Do not misunderstand me. You are my brother and I love you, but your stance seems to be a cause of instability in today's and future Islamic world. Sorry if you dislike my saying things like this, and I hope I am wrong about you. But this is the way I see it.

 

[Al Bhatti]

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MB had some relations with the founding people of Pakistan and even after them.

Texts by Hassan Al Bana (founder of MB) about Pakistan

http://www.ikhwanwiki.com/index.php?title=%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%85_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D9%86%D8%A7_%D8%B9%D9%86_%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%D9%86

Texts by Saleh A'ashmawee about Pakistan

http://www.ikhwanwiki.com/index.php?title=%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B0_%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD_%D8%B9%D8%B4%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%8A_%D8%B9%D9%86_%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%D9%86


Al Bana with Jinnah

حسن البنا ومحمد علي جناح رئيس باكستان وأمين الحسيني

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Saleh A'ashmawee in Pakistan

صالح عشماوى فى باكستان

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Mustafa Mashhoor in Pakistan

مصطفى مشهور في باكستان

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مصطفى السباعي وسعيد رمضان ولياقت علي خان رئيس وزراء باكستان- مجلة-الدعوة

One of the Syrian rep. from MB and Egyptian representative from MB and secretary Saeed Ramadan with Liaqat Ali Khan during a conference

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الأستاذ سعيد رمضان يحاضر في دولة باكستان -مجلة الدعوة

Saeed Ramadan giving a speech in Pakistan

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Doctor Ahmed Al A'assaal one the leaders in MB

الدكتور أحمد العسال أحد قيادات الإخوان

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MB officials during their visit to one of the schools in Pakistan

الأستاذ أبو النصرفى احدى المدارس اثناء زيارة باكستان

 

[Leader]

@Zarvan, I appreciate you thanking my post, but brother you are one of those people who spread the story that democracy is not for Muslims and that it is against Islam. I have argued in the past and I shall keep arguing in the future against this oft-repeated opinion held by Mullahs who know that democracy shall come at the cost of their support from masses. What they do not see is that the positive changes will be immensely favorable to Muslims all around the world and help us establish peace. Their rhetoric is deeply flawed in itself.

We have been on opposing sides in this matter and I suspect your support is not for democracy in Egypt, but for Mursi in view of his Islamist background.

While one can describe an Islamist as someone who hopes to use politics in establishing Islamic government. There is a further division, and it is increasingly important.

There are Islamists who wish to ignore democracy and establish an Islamist government. The said government could be dictatorship with an appointed assembly ala secular dictatorships in Arab world, or an Oligarchy with a small number of people holding power. And then there are those who wish to establish democracy in order to have an Islamic oriented government. This latter variety of Islamists believe that with constitutional safeguards, democracy is the best bet in establishing a stable system of governance that is open, transparent, and effective in today's world. You my friend (seems to me) belong to the former group, while I am firmly in the latter group. There is a lot of confusion out there and I suppose I could write a book on this issue.

Do not misunderstand me. You are my brother and I love you, but your stance seems to be a cause of instability in today's and future Islamic world. Sorry if you dislike my saying things like this, and I hope I am wrong about you. But this is the way I see it.

co-existence !!!

 

[d-fence]

The Secularists will play any and every trick to try to wash away Pakistan's Islamic heritage and to delegitimize the Muslim intellectuals who defend it. Their attitude makes it very clear that the only language they will ever understand is force. That may, in the long term, be the only reason people support the TTP and "Taliban". When society is thus polarized we get two groups of increasingly extreme peoples. Thus the middle way is lost, and the nation comes to ruin.

What is reflected in Egypt is but the symptom of the same disease, albeit more violently and flagrantly. The only solution is to find the middle way and refuse to be obfuscated and confused. But who has the power to make that middle way happen?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Muslim Brotherhood also have some close ties with Pakistani Jamaat-i-Islami.

What is happening is Egypt is absolutely in-human, what is even more disgusting is countries like Saudia Arabia and UAE (both Muslim states) supporting the violence against innocent people.

they hate the Brotherhood and see them as a threat; their support is for the Salafists like el Noor

 

[ajpirzada]

we tend to complicate the analysis very effectively. to start with, im simply against this armed revolution thing going on in middle east. however, a democratically elected government has a legitimate right to rule irrespective of who forms it. and by definition, just because 49% does not like the government is not in itself enuf a reason to overthrow the government.

what is happening in Egypt is not an issue of Muslim Brotherhood but a matter of minority imposing its will on the majority by use of force. insane

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan, I appreciate you thanking my post, but brother you are one of those people who spread the story that democracy is not for Muslims and that it is against Islam. I have argued in the past and I shall keep arguing in the future against this oft-repeated opinion held by Mullahs who know that democracy shall come at the cost of their support from masses. What they do not see is that the positive changes will be immensely favorable to Muslims all around the world and help us establish peace. Their rhetoric is deeply flawed in itself.

We have been on opposing sides in this matter and I suspect your support is not for democracy in Egypt, but for Mursi in view of his Islamist background.

While one can describe an Islamist as someone who hopes to use politics in establishing Islamic government. There is a further division, and it is increasingly important.

There are Islamists who wish to ignore democracy and establish an Islamist government. The said government could be dictatorship with an appointed assembly ala secular dictatorships in Arab world, or an Oligarchy with a small number of people holding power. And then there are those who wish to establish democracy in order to have an Islamic oriented government. This latter variety of Islamists believe that with constitutional safeguards, democracy is the best bet in establishing a stable system of governance that is open, transparent, and effective in today's world. You my friend (seems to me) belong to the former group, while I am firmly in the latter group. There is a lot of confusion out there and I suppose I could write a book on this issue.

Do not misunderstand me. You are my brother and I love you, but your stance seems to be a cause of instability in today's and future Islamic world. Sorry if you dislike my saying things like this, and I hope I am wrong about you. But this is the way I see it.

Democracy is in contradiction with Islam its rules are in complete contradiction with Islam as Muslims we can't follow democracy

 

[Menace2Society]

Democracy is in contradiction with Islam its rules are in complete contradiction with Islam as Muslims we can't follow democracy

Give it whatever name you like in that case, call it The Islamic Emirate Kingdom of Arabistan.

This model worked in 9th century.

It doesn't work in the 21st century.

A monarchy with the divine right to do whatever the hell they want does not work with a population who have access to the internet, tv, radio and newspapers.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Democracy is in contradiction with Islam its rules are in complete contradiction with Islam as Muslims we can't follow democracy

Strongly disagree. Very strongly disagree.

I can quote Quran and Hadith in support of a mature democratic system in opposition to kingship / dictatorship / plutocracy. By calling a system of Kufr as Khilafah does not make it Halal. Kingship is close to Kufr and democracy is close to Islam.

Give it whatever name you like in that case, call it The Islamic Emirate Kingdom of Arabistan.

This model worked in 9th century.

It doesn't work in the 21st century.

A monarchy with the divine right to do whatever the hell they want does not work with a population who have access to the internet, tv, radio and newspapers.

The Arabs of that epoch were not equal to the task of governing themselves and the world according to Quran & Sunnah. Even Sahabah (R.A.) went wrong in politics when some of them indirectly supported establishment of kingship. The horror that followed showed that the system of indirectly elected Khilafah could not work in that environment when there was not institutional setup to support it. As @Zarvan about the horror wrought in Madinah when Yazid's army plundered it. The bastard called himself Khalifah. I am not even talking about Karbalah. The memory of that event is too painful to even contemplate.
@Zarvan, what was the whole of Yazid's short reign about? Can you shed some light on its history, and say something about those who supported it? Was that 'Islamic' in your view?

Suppose there were elections, could ever a person like Yazid win? Or someone like Imam Hussain (R.A.) lose?

 

[Zarvan]

Strongly disagree. Very strongly disagree.

I can quote Quran and Hadith in support of a mature democratic system in opposition to kingship / dictatorship / plutocracy. By calling a system of Kufr as Khilafah does not make it Halal. Kingship is close to Kufr and democracy is close to Islam.



The Arabs of that epoch were not equal to the task of governing themselves and the world according to Quran & Sunnah. Even Sahabah (R.A.) went wrong in politics when some of them indirectly supported establishment of kingship. The horror that followed showed that the system of indirectly elected Khilafah could not work in that environment when there was not institutional setup to support it. As @Zarvan about the horror wrought in Madinah when Yazid's army plundered it. The bastard called himself Khalifah. I am not even talking about Karbalah. The memory of that event is too painful to even contemplate.
@Zarvan, what was the whole of Yazid's short reign about? Can you shed some light on its history, and say something about those who supported it? Was that 'Islamic' in your view?

Suppose there were elections, could ever a person like Yazid win? Or someone like Imam Hussain (R.A.) lose?

Mr first read about Karbala and don't quote me Shia things I have read it in detail and many have been proven wrong yes Yazid always in our elections and followers of Imam Hussain always loose Mr Democracy is complete kufr not even close to Islam