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When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?

For those like @Hassan Al-Somal claim that they have no opinion whether the Holocaust occured, while at the same time show extremism hatred against Jews.

When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?



Contrary to popular belief this has nothing to do with Nazi records. There is this “half-myth” that floats around that the Nazis were great record keepers and thanks to these records we can accurately identify the number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust. This is inaccurate.

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To be clear the Nazis were great record keepers when they wanted to be. When it came to government administration, military accounting, and economic output the Nazis kept fantastic records. Moreover, many Nazi Generals survived the war and wrote extensively about their experiences before and during the war.

When it comes to the Holocaust we do have source documents that prove a lot and these documents are beyond valuable. They are exceedingly rare though and there isn’t a master list or anything like that. There is a good reason for this though.

As WW2 got going Hitler personally ordered the extermination of disabled persons in the infamous “Aktion T4”. This included a signed order from Hitler to identify, round up, and exterminate all disabled persons. There was an immediate response from the German people and the international community. So Hitler publically backtraced and canceled the order while continuing the extermination in secret. Protesting families were told that their loved ones were being transported to hospitals when really they were killed in the very vans that were supposed to take them there (the Nazis used gas vans as well as gas chambers).

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Hitler was thus never going to sign an order to kill all the Jews nor would anyone else. The entire SS high command was very hush-hush about the whole thing. They used code words, destroyed documents, bug up mass graves to burn the bodies, and very secretly went about their evil work.

There was never a list of all the Jews the Nazis killed. There were not even lists for individual concentration camps. In rare instances, we have records that show how many death certificates were sent out by the Nazis or how many inmates in a camp had died but these records are incomplete. At Auschwitz for instance there is a book that records some 70,000 who had died in the camp but this list excludes the 900,000 who were killed in the gas chambers upon arrival and the other 120,000 that died in the death marches or from various acts of brutality.


So where do we get “6 million” from and when did we identify that number?

So to answer the question the first estimate of “6 million” came about in 1945. A top SS official named Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl stated under oath that Adolf Eichmann had reported 6 million Jews killed. This was the first estimate we really had and it was based just upon a single confession.

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Past that we have to turn to data to find the answer. Prior to WW2 various nations and groups collected census data as we do today. A few examples include

  1. The Jewish Almanac in 1938
  2. The German Minority Census of 1939
  3. The Polish census of 1939
  4. Census data from the USSR from 1933–1940
Thanks to this data we have some idea of how many Jewish were alive in 1939 both globally and in Europe. Roughly speaking there were about 9 to 9.5 million Jewish in Europe and 15.5 to 15.8 million globally.

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We then know that by the time the war ended there were only about 3.5 million Jews left in Europe and somewhere around 9 million left globally.


So we have a disparity here of about 6 million. The question is how many of these people died in the Holocaust and how many died from other causes? You have to factor in death rates, birth rates, and the effect WW2 had on those statistics.

This is why figures vary because it depends on how you factor in death rates, birth rates, and what census data you use. Some historians peg the number at 5.2 million others say it could be as high as 6.2 million. Sadly we won’t ever know.

When it comes to totaling up how many were killed at the various camps we are also having to infer a bit.

Take Treblinka, an extermination camp I studied extensively. Thanks to a report from Chief SS Statistician Richard Korherr and another Telegram from top SS Offical Herman Hofle we know 713,000 Jews had perished at Treblinka by the end of 1942. The two documents had identical statistics showing that there was data being collected and kept ultra-classified. This data was related to “Operation Reinhard” which was the operation of the extermination camps and the liquidation of many Ghettos in Eastern Europe.

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The problem is that Treblinka operated into 1943 too and no records exist from this year. This is where train station controller Franciszek Ząbecki comes into the picture. This guy ran a train station right by Treblinka and noticed that trains arrived full of Jews and departed empty. He figured out what was going on, joined the Polish Resistance, and started painstakingly recording every train arrival for posterity. He also smuggled out many “way bills” that show how many were on each train. Thanks to him we can estimate how many trains arrived in 1942 and 1943. We can then do some basic math to find out how many Jews on average were on each train and come to a total estimate of 800,000ish.

Why “ish”? Well because we cannot verify exactly how many people were on each train. In 1943 Treblinka slowed considerably and while we have some “way-bills” that confirm numbers it’s hard to take these at face value. So the best estimate is 850,000 give or take. We are 100% more than 712,000 were killed there but we cannot give an exact number. Franciszek Ząbecki for his part did his own calculations based on what he saw and recorded and estimated the total at over 1 million- and he could be right.

So obviously it’s all rather complex and it took lots of serious study and research to accurately identify the number of victims. However, the numbers we do have are 100% accurate and based on mountains of evidence.

  • We have confession from top SS officials, top Nazi officials, camp commandants, camp guards, Gestapo members, Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing squad) members, and even just low ranking SS guys
  • We have eye witness testimony from hundreds of thousands of people. Many were Sonderkommandos, which were Jews forced to work in the gas chambers. Others are Polish, Soviet, Greek, German, French, and Romani camp survivors. Some witnesses were even people who managed to escape the death camps during the revolts there.
  • Census data is beyond reproach considering we have multiple sources that are all relatively close in their estimates. There is variance but we are talking about a few percentage points. Both the Nazis and Jews showed there were 9 million Jews in Europe and after the war every census ever done (and there have been hundreds) all showed that the global Jewish population shrank around 6 million
  • We have some scattered documents that fill in the blanks. For instance the mobile killing squads neatly recorded every single massacre and sent these reports into Berlin for SS leaders to see. We have hundreds of these reports.
So the crux of the estimates is the census data. That gives us a ballpark. To back up the census data we have a few confessions but very little here because if there was a “master list” for all the Jews killed, it was destroyed. So with a ball park number in mind we turn to various witnesses, confessions, and a few crucial source documents to fill in the blanks.

Based on my studies here is where the poor souls who were murdered in the Holocaust died. These are just my estimates based on my studies and certainly this is not the end all be all of estimates- but it paints a picture.

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The Jewish terrorist organization, Irgun was active since the late 1920s, way before the Holocaust. Haganah, another neo-fascist entity also existed way before the Holocaust. Selective amnesia is what our "Chosen" compatriots suffer from

They do have extremist elements just like any religion.. for instance, TTP and bunch of others... There are skeletons in everyones closet.
 
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That's not correct. They have been the chosen people by God. However,after they rejected the Messiah,they were scattered.

And like Saint Saint Seraphim of Sarov (+1833) had said:

"The Jews and the Slavs are the two peoples of the destinies of God, the vessels and witnesses of Him, the unbroken arks; but the other peoples will be as it were spittle which the Lord will spit out of His mouth. The Jews were scattered over the face of the whole earth because they did not accept and did not recognise the Lord Jesus Christ. But in the times of the Antichrist many Jews will be converted to Christ, since they will understand that the Messiah whom they mistakenly wait for is none other than he about whom our Lord Jesus Christ said: 'I have come in the name of My Father, and they have not received Me, another will come in his own name, and they will receive him.'

And so, in spite of their great crime before God, the Jews were and are a people beloved before God. But the Slavs are beloved of God because they will preserve true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ to the end. They will completely reject the Antichrist and will not accept him as the Messiah, for which they will be counted worthy of great blessings by God. They will be the first and most powerful people on the earth, and there will be no more powerful state than the Russian-Slavic in the world."

Or like Saint Paisios (+1994) had said:

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Jews rule the world actually

Make up your mind. You want to see them scattered and downtrodden like your Saint or ruling over the world like your right wing conspiracy theorists anti semite propaganda
 
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It's easier that way. :D

Don't most europeans and american bracket all muslims together? Unless they are like, the super liberal type.

On a serious note, no bro. We only got a problem with the racists and self-righteous ones, looking down on us. Calling us anti-semitic while conveniently fanning the israel-palestine conflict and brushing their own millenia old history of genocide after genocide under the carpet.

That being said, we do have racists and unreasonable people here. But, what can they do? A brown bigot can only rant. White bigots enable the global war machine.

Before you cite terrorism, please know that it is 100% a response to the western meddling in the (after centuries of colonization)

Read professor robert pape. he says 100% of the suicide attacks he studied could be linked to real or percieved injustices by the target country/group towards the perpetrator, and not due to religion.

Islam was here for almost 1400 years before terrorism started. and we had plenty of time to kill the infidels.
When the spanish were persecuting and driving out the muslims invaders (like they were still invaders after 800 years), guess who they also persecuting and driving out? the jews.
jews who then found refuge in the ottoman empire and north africa.
Watch corey gil shuster interview mizrahim about their and their ancestors life in islamic countries before moving to israel. guess who the crusaders also murdered when they took over jerusalem? the jews (and the wrong type of christians, i think arians or orthodox, basically non-catholics)

shit only hit the fan when after colonization and false promises, the illegitimate state was propped up as a thorn in the arabs side.

note: while i believe the israel to be an illegitimate state, i am all for 1967 borders two state solution. I in no way advocate for the exodus or any sort persecution of the jews already living their, except those fking settlers. they should be gassed. and the palestinians should get reparations. if israel is too poor to do it, the enablers of the palestinian genocide like uk, germany, USA should have no problem paying palestianians if they can pay the israelis. they are responsible for the whole mess.


No idea about bbc's troy. But you guys resembles italians relatively closely tho, right?
And italians were infamously discriminated against in the the US for being not real white people
That's what made me laugh.

On a serious note, does it matter if you are white or wheat-ish or brown? Ignore the people bring up color. We are talking about the actions of countries.
Bravo. Well said. 👏
 
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Make up your mind. You want to see them scattered and downtrodden like your Saint or ruling over the world like your right wing conspiracy theorists anti semite propaganda
Maybe you should make up your mind. Are you pro-Jewish or anti-Jewish? Because one post you hate them and then you talk about "anti-semite propaganda".

Yeah maybe you should also type Italian Mafia,Latino gangs,Albanian mafia,Russian mafia,gangs of New York,Afghan and Pakistani crime in Britain etc.
 
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Maybe you should make up your mind. Are you pro-Jewish or anti-Jewish? Because one post you hate them and then you talk about "anti-semite propaganda".
Why don't you point out the differences instead of making ridiculous claims?
Yeah maybe you should also type Italian Mafia,Latino gangs,Albanian mafia,Russian mafia,gangs of New York,Afghan and Pakistani crime in Britain etc.
Hence my original point of Africans being not that different to Greeks or any others.
 
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Why don't you point out the differences instead of making ridiculous claims?

Hence my original point of Africans being not that different to Greeks or any others.
Sidd,does anyone on this forum take you seriously?

Only a few Greeks or Italians formed organized crime in the countries they migrated to,back in the 50's and 60's and 70's.

On the contrary,there's hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and fake refugees coming from African countries and anywhere from Syria to Pakistan,many of which are troublemakers. Organized and unorganized crime is rampant.

This is the big difference. The numbers,of which a big part are the lowlives and criminals in their countries,who come to Europe illegally and start doing all kinds of nasty things,because they find more freedom here.

And definetely,the more that come,doesn't help your case. Because they are not like the Greeks or Italians or Turks or the first generation Pakistanis and Hindus who had migrated to the UK after independence,probably way after. These people went there legally,they were checked,they were family men,they worked hard and they prospered.

What you see now,is all the sausagefest coming,most of them eager to get money from Germany,France,Britain,Scandinavian countries...shag local women and then talk about Islam all day and how they want their rights.

Most of these problematic people are Somalis,Afghans and some Algerians,Moroccans and Tunisians. Sometimes Pakistanis as well (of what tribe or ethnicity,no idea)
 
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I already told you

Philistines are Greek by blood, Palestinians are Arabs. Goliath wasn't a Palestinian lol, he had nothing to do with them.

Jews are native to Israel for thousands of years.

OK! .... in your words, Jews are native of this land for "thousands" of years -- correct?

The question is, who were the natives of this land before thousands of years? --- they were the Philistine people.

Israelites fought against the army of Philistines under the command of King Saul.
David killed Goliath.
This is where the story of Israelites in this land begins.

So, Israelites are not native to this land.
You guys invaded.
 
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It's easier that way. :D

Don't most europeans and american bracket all muslims together? Unless they are like, the super liberal type.
Don't act like you know Europeans and Americans when you never lived there or interacted with any. No one hates Muslims as people but they definitely have negative views of Islam for obvious reasons. At most they might be distrustful of Muslims but that's as bad as it gets.
That being said, we do have racists and unreasonable people here. But, what can they do? A brown bigot can only rant. White bigots enable the global war machine.
White bigots? bigots are unfortunately plastered all over the world. The war machine is powered by a few select elite made up of different ethnicities across the world who share similar goals and not just Whites like you say

Europeans have done terrible things to Jewish people. for centuries they have been persecuted till 2nd world war. Muslims always came to their rescue and have been asked by God to treat Jews with love and respect as they are the people of the book.
Muslims expelled Jews from their countries, this is a recorded fact. Where are the Jews and Christians in Pakistan and Afghanistan if the Muslims have so much tolerance for the "people of the book"?
 
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When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?

Actually the decision for Israel took place in 1898 in Switzerland. After that, world started to change very very fast. World war 1, and then request to Usmanis for a land for Jews in Palestine, which Usmanis denied. And then destruction of Usmani empire.
But Jews were reluctant to relocate to a desert. Hitler was given this duty, and then world war 2. Jews (as they like to be called) from Poland, Germany, Austria, Russia and other white lands were moved to Israel, and wow.... What a planning. So this 6 million, like all other things, was decided somewhere during 1880 to 1905.
 
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I don't believe that. It's entirely possible that the people ruling the world may happen to be jews or atheists (cuz who cares when you are so rich and powerful) of jewish ancestry. But their power isn't conditional on them being jews.

If they were ruling the world, they wouldn't be getting shafted for most of their existence.

That being said, the unconditional western support to israel 100% baffles me. It can't be that a bunch of illiterate evangelicals are dictating the course of human history. Also, why would the US dems be so pro-israel then. evangelicals are not their vote bank. and it's not like these people care about jews all of a sudden. i mean, the layman might. and it's because the media portrays the jews to be the victims today (they were for the most part). but why would the media do so, is beyond me.


Yes, i can understand that, bro
tbf, I don't know why people are so worked up about color. when we are going to get out of this color divide. I can understand having differences over languages, (ease of communication) nationalities/regions (shared geopolitical interests), religion etc. but this color divide escapes me. It's pure racism and the can only be expected from people with the lowest of IQ. that's why even tho i've personally hated religious extremists from a very young age, i put racists even beneath them.
You have asked a very interesting question re unconditional support for Israel.
In order for you to understand there are 2 things you have to understand.

1. Traditional banking and the Rothchields dominace over it. Who are they and how they have financed both sides of every modern war since napolean.

2. This is how Israel controls and dominates the world. You need to look at the Epstein and Gisellene Maxwell arrests and the involvement of almost every global leader. How mossad set this operation and how they have videos of men of power with young girls. You can see pictures of trump Clinton and Prince Andrew to name a few. When you control the leaders you control the populous.

Every dog has its day. Right now as predicted by the ancient texts this is the time for the sons of Israel to rule this land. It has been foretold that they will be very influential powerful but will spread enormous mischief. God will gather them from all over the world and then terminate them. This is from Jewish texts. This is also the reason why religious orthdoax Jews are against the state of Israel.
 
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That depends, tho. If the "people of color" nations all gang up on europe and colonize and exploit it for centuries and then on their way out, forcefully settle their unwanted people in europe. Then for decades, support them in their genocide of Europeans, then I'd say you'd have a right to be angry.
So you admit that Europeans have the right to be angry about Arabs and Ottomans attacking Europe During the last 1400 years…
  • Putting millions in slavery.
  • Occupying land.
  • Kidnapping kids, forcing them to become soldiers.
  • Millions of people arrive to squat.
 
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Actually the decision for Israel took place in 1898 in Switzerland. After that, world started to change very very fast. World war 1, and then request to Usmanis for a land for Jews in Palestine, which Usmanis denied. And then destruction of Usmani empire.
But Jews were reluctant to relocate to a desert. Hitler was given this duty, and then world war 2. Jews (as they like to be called) from Poland, Germany, Austria, Russia and other white lands were moved to Israel, and wow.... What a planning. So this 6 million, like all other things, was decided somewhere during 1880 to 1905.
The first wave of Jews arrived in 1882. They did not ”request for land”.
They purchased land. When local Arabs complained to the Ottomans, their complaints were rejected.
 
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he question is, who were the natives of this land before thousands of years? --- they were the Philistine people.
No. Various other peoples who were eventually exterminated. It's in the Old Testament. Check it out if you want. Land Canaan.

Muslims expelled Jews from their countries, this is a recorded fact. Where are the Jews and Christians in Pakistan and Afghanistan if the Muslims have so much tolerance for the "people of the book"?
Well said there. I like villageidiot very much,I usually like his posts and he's a very smart guy,but on this subject we disagree a bit.
 
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Jewish holocaust never happened. Jew do everything inhumane they claim nazis did to them. Jews actively spread and sponsor Islamophobia, jews vote for ultra right wing politicians, jew kill Palestinians and steal their properties, Gaza is the largest concentration camp on earth thanks to the jews.

Jews must payback for their crimes with interest...
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Damn, you forgot take your meds again.

Seriously, collective punishment to civilian is a disgusting crime.

No matter who is the aggresor and who is the victim.

And if some state does that kind of crimes, it keeps being a crime treat in the same way to the people of that state.

If someone does something bad, must be individually judged.

Or you will accept to be killed if your neighbors or your state does some crime to other people?
 
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Israelites fought against the army of Philistines under the command of King Saul.
David killed Goliath.
This is where the story of Israelites in this land begins.

So, Israelites are not native to this land.
You guys invaded.
I suggest you start reading the Old Testament.
 
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