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When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?

For those like @Hassan Al-Somal claim that they have no opinion whether the Holocaust occured, while at the same time show extremism hatred against Jews.

When did the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis become well known at 6 million?



Contrary to popular belief this has nothing to do with Nazi records. There is this “half-myth” that floats around that the Nazis were great record keepers and thanks to these records we can accurately identify the number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust. This is inaccurate.

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To be clear the Nazis were great record keepers when they wanted to be. When it came to government administration, military accounting, and economic output the Nazis kept fantastic records. Moreover, many Nazi Generals survived the war and wrote extensively about their experiences before and during the war.

When it comes to the Holocaust we do have source documents that prove a lot and these documents are beyond valuable. They are exceedingly rare though and there isn’t a master list or anything like that. There is a good reason for this though.

As WW2 got going Hitler personally ordered the extermination of disabled persons in the infamous “Aktion T4”. This included a signed order from Hitler to identify, round up, and exterminate all disabled persons. There was an immediate response from the German people and the international community. So Hitler publically backtraced and canceled the order while continuing the extermination in secret. Protesting families were told that their loved ones were being transported to hospitals when really they were killed in the very vans that were supposed to take them there (the Nazis used gas vans as well as gas chambers).

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Hitler was thus never going to sign an order to kill all the Jews nor would anyone else. The entire SS high command was very hush-hush about the whole thing. They used code words, destroyed documents, bug up mass graves to burn the bodies, and very secretly went about their evil work.

There was never a list of all the Jews the Nazis killed. There were not even lists for individual concentration camps. In rare instances, we have records that show how many death certificates were sent out by the Nazis or how many inmates in a camp had died but these records are incomplete. At Auschwitz for instance there is a book that records some 70,000 who had died in the camp but this list excludes the 900,000 who were killed in the gas chambers upon arrival and the other 120,000 that died in the death marches or from various acts of brutality.


So where do we get “6 million” from and when did we identify that number?

So to answer the question the first estimate of “6 million” came about in 1945. A top SS official named Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl stated under oath that Adolf Eichmann had reported 6 million Jews killed. This was the first estimate we really had and it was based just upon a single confession.

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Past that we have to turn to data to find the answer. Prior to WW2 various nations and groups collected census data as we do today. A few examples include

  1. The Jewish Almanac in 1938
  2. The German Minority Census of 1939
  3. The Polish census of 1939
  4. Census data from the USSR from 1933–1940
Thanks to this data we have some idea of how many Jewish were alive in 1939 both globally and in Europe. Roughly speaking there were about 9 to 9.5 million Jewish in Europe and 15.5 to 15.8 million globally.

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We then know that by the time the war ended there were only about 3.5 million Jews left in Europe and somewhere around 9 million left globally.


So we have a disparity here of about 6 million. The question is how many of these people died in the Holocaust and how many died from other causes? You have to factor in death rates, birth rates, and the effect WW2 had on those statistics.

This is why figures vary because it depends on how you factor in death rates, birth rates, and what census data you use. Some historians peg the number at 5.2 million others say it could be as high as 6.2 million. Sadly we won’t ever know.

When it comes to totaling up how many were killed at the various camps we are also having to infer a bit.

Take Treblinka, an extermination camp I studied extensively. Thanks to a report from Chief SS Statistician Richard Korherr and another Telegram from top SS Offical Herman Hofle we know 713,000 Jews had perished at Treblinka by the end of 1942. The two documents had identical statistics showing that there was data being collected and kept ultra-classified. This data was related to “Operation Reinhard” which was the operation of the extermination camps and the liquidation of many Ghettos in Eastern Europe.

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The problem is that Treblinka operated into 1943 too and no records exist from this year. This is where train station controller Franciszek Ząbecki comes into the picture. This guy ran a train station right by Treblinka and noticed that trains arrived full of Jews and departed empty. He figured out what was going on, joined the Polish Resistance, and started painstakingly recording every train arrival for posterity. He also smuggled out many “way bills” that show how many were on each train. Thanks to him we can estimate how many trains arrived in 1942 and 1943. We can then do some basic math to find out how many Jews on average were on each train and come to a total estimate of 800,000ish.

Why “ish”? Well because we cannot verify exactly how many people were on each train. In 1943 Treblinka slowed considerably and while we have some “way-bills” that confirm numbers it’s hard to take these at face value. So the best estimate is 850,000 give or take. We are 100% more than 712,000 were killed there but we cannot give an exact number. Franciszek Ząbecki for his part did his own calculations based on what he saw and recorded and estimated the total at over 1 million- and he could be right.

So obviously it’s all rather complex and it took lots of serious study and research to accurately identify the number of victims. However, the numbers we do have are 100% accurate and based on mountains of evidence.

  • We have confession from top SS officials, top Nazi officials, camp commandants, camp guards, Gestapo members, Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing squad) members, and even just low ranking SS guys
  • We have eye witness testimony from hundreds of thousands of people. Many were Sonderkommandos, which were Jews forced to work in the gas chambers. Others are Polish, Soviet, Greek, German, French, and Romani camp survivors. Some witnesses were even people who managed to escape the death camps during the revolts there.
  • Census data is beyond reproach considering we have multiple sources that are all relatively close in their estimates. There is variance but we are talking about a few percentage points. Both the Nazis and Jews showed there were 9 million Jews in Europe and after the war every census ever done (and there have been hundreds) all showed that the global Jewish population shrank around 6 million
  • We have some scattered documents that fill in the blanks. For instance the mobile killing squads neatly recorded every single massacre and sent these reports into Berlin for SS leaders to see. We have hundreds of these reports.
So the crux of the estimates is the census data. That gives us a ballpark. To back up the census data we have a few confessions but very little here because if there was a “master list” for all the Jews killed, it was destroyed. So with a ball park number in mind we turn to various witnesses, confessions, and a few crucial source documents to fill in the blanks.

Based on my studies here is where the poor souls who were murdered in the Holocaust died. These are just my estimates based on my studies and certainly this is not the end all be all of estimates- but it paints a picture.

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Damn, you forgot take your meds again.

Seriously, collective punishment to civilian is a disgusting crime.

No matter who is the aggresor and who is the victim.

And if some state does that kind of crimes, it keeps being a crime treat in the same way to the people of that state.

If someone does something bad, must be individually judged.

Or you will accept to be killed if your neighbors or your state does some crime to other people?
LOL, you should take the meds you suggested. Because, you are a filthy zionazi sympathizer...
 
Sidd,does anyone on this forum take you seriously?
The phenomenon is not limited to just the forum.
Only a few Greeks or Italians formed organized crime in the countries they migrated to,back in the 50's and 60's and 70's.
3 decades of organised crime versus a mere decade of people trying to overcome system issues in a new country. Not a very fair comparison.
On the contrary,there's hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and fake refugees coming from African countries and anywhere from Syria to Pakistan,many of which are troublemakers. Organized and unorganized crime is rampant.
The root cause as to why they indulge in criminal activities is not that they are criminal by instinct but forced into it through institutional abuse they go through once they reach these countries.

The entire Greek economy is run via blackmail to keep them in Greece if you know what i mean.
What you see now,is all the sausagefest coming,most of them eager to get money from Germany,France,Britain,Scandinavian countries...shag local women and then talk about Islam all day and how they want their rights.

So you want their women to fill up the brothels? Have you ever visited a brothel in France? They are full of trafficked women from these countries.
 
OK! .... in your words, Jews are native of this land for "thousands" of years -- correct?

The question is, who were the natives of this land before thousands of years? --- they were the Philistine people.

Israelites fought against the army of Philistines under the command of King Saul.
David killed Goliath.
This is where the story of Israelites in this land begins.

So, Israelites are not native to this land.
You guys invaded.
Philistines don't exist anymore.

You could recursively do the same for any civilization at any territory at any point of time as long as they traveled out of the territory humans originated at in Africa. According to that logic Native Americans aren't native to America, Chinese people aren't native to China and Arabs aren't native to Saudi Arabia because their ancestors immigrated or conquered those places some X thousands of years ago.

That's a stupid argument. Jews have the most history in Israel than any other group of people that exists.

And if you would disregard the "who was before" argument and just focus on the "you conquered this land from someone so you it isn't legitimately yours" argument, virtually every country is the result of conquest, you would be delegitimizing every Muslim state including "Palestine" and that would mean there is nothing wrong with conquering it which supports Israel's legitimacy.

By saying Israel had no right to conquer "Palestine" because Israel was not native would be a logical error because the Arabs aren't native as well so if we apply your reasoning on the Arabs it would be legitimate to conquer them.

As I said before you are a descendant of Zios having countless crocodile tears.
Although this thread is started for the cause of Jews I am happy that now things will be discussed here including Palestinian genocide, open land grabbing/ house stealing by white settlers in the name of the promised land by God (from a Gob in which white settlers do not even believe), ethnic cleansing, children abductions and murders, concentration camps for Palestinians, trying to erase Palestine history, and much more.
Much more will be discussed here Insha Allah and also how the end of Zionism will come. Although you zios know your end well, still we will make your memory fresh.
Personally never liked the holocaust (if ever happened) but the extreme propaganda from your side makes things questionable and also I winder if it ever happened what is the excuse to do the same or worse things to Palestinians?


That's why their end will be with Dajjal and defeat will be utter humiliation and complete eradication.
It's native Jewish land, Arabs would have had a different reality if they chose not to start a war in an effort to finish us off.

Ashkenazi Jews don't believe in God lol? who told you that? Many Ashkenazi Jews are more religious than Muslims are.

Keep lying with child abductions and concentration camps lol. Anyways, cope hard you ****ing loser lol
 
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i blame your uncle rothschild for the war and genocide, read balfour declaration it has rothschild name on it. stalin was a Georgian jew anyway. ashkenazi / khazars from southern russia dont have semetic blood. benjamin freedman exposed this.
How is Balfour declaration, which wasn't even fulfilled up until 1948, which was meant to create a Jewish state, somehow the cause of the murder of 6 million Jews?

Khazar theory is a disproven myth, Jews were exiled all over the world yet they still all share genetic link. Cope hard anyways.

Jews were treated like 5th class citizens and herded into labor camps against their will but there were no mass killings or use of Zyklon B in an attempt to wipe out Jews. There is no evidence of gassings of Jews or written plans to kill all the Jews besides some forced confessions of surviving Nazis which were taken by torture during the trials. It is impossible to kill Six Million in the span of six years during the war, Europe would have human remains and ashes scattered all around if that was the case
Europe had remains and ashes all around
Ashes
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46c64d1b-6f10-4428-9a19-8bee619b5aa1.jpg.pagespeed.ce.FPJ1LCDpd7.jpg

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Mass graves

grave-Bergen-Belsen-Germany-concentration-camp.jpg


expo5_04_l.jpg

AP16271333078760.jpg
 
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Philistines don't exist anymore.

You could recursively do the same for any civilization at any territory at any point of time as long as they traveled out of the territory humans originated at in Africa. According to that logic Native Americans aren't native to America, Chinese people aren't native to China and Arabs aren't native to Saudi Arabia because their ancestors immigrated or conquered those places some X thousands of years ago.

That's a stupid argument. Jews have the most history in Israel than any other group of people that exists.

And if you would disregard the "who was before" argument and just focus on the "you conquered this land from someone so you it isn't legitimately yours" argument, virtually every country is the result of conquest, you would be delegitimizing every Muslim state including "Palestine" and that would mean there is nothing wrong with conquering it which supports Israel's legitimacy.

By saying Israel had no right to conquer "Palestine" because Israel was not native would be a logical error because the Arabs aren't native as well so if we apply your reasoning on the Arabs it would be legitimate to conquer them.


It's native Jewish land, Arabs would have had a different reality if they chose not to start a war in an effort to finish us off.

Ashkenazi Jews don't believe in God lol? who told you that? Many Ashkenazi Jews are more religious than Muslims are.

Keep lying with child abductions and concentration camps lol. Anyways, cope hard you ****ing loser lol
Palestinian occur everywhere. Muslim umma is awakening and more and more world comes to realize israHelli agenda and crimes. Qatar football world cup was a small show for same.
BTW I will say again..... You know what will happen to you, don't you? 😜
I mean another divine punishment (this time will be final).
Hints: All the zios gathering to a single point..... Complete wipe out... Trees... Stones etc 😁
 
Palestinian occur everywhere. Muslim umma is awakening and more and more world comes to realize israHelli agenda and crimes. Qatar football world cup was a small show for same.
BTW I will say again..... You know what will happen to you, don't you? 😜
I mean another divine punishment (this time will be final).
Hints: All the zios gathering to a single point..... Complete wipe out... Trees... Stones etc 😁
Why can't we be friends?
 
Deaths of Jews is over focused by their media the whole world suffered during WW2 due to Hitler's views and the numbers are arbitrarily inflated.

Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II​

WWII HISTORY
Soldiers viewing graves

DEATHS BY COUNTRY

CountryMilitary DeathsTotal Civilian and Military Deaths
Albania30,00030,200
Australia39,80040,500
Austria261,000384,700
Belgium12,10086,100
Brazil1,0002,000
Bulgaria22,00025,000
Canada45,40045,400
China3-4,000,00020,000,000
Czechoslovakia25,000345,000
Denmark2,1003,200
Dutch East Indies--3-4,000,000
Estonia--51,000
Ethiopia5,000100,000
Finland95,00097,000
France217,600567,600
French Indochina--1-1,500,000
Germany5,533,0006,600,000-8,800,000
Greece20,000-35,000300,000-800,000
Hungary300,000580,000
India87,0001,500,000-2,500,000
Italy301,400457,000
Japan2,120,0002,600,000-3,100,000
Korea--378,000-473,000
Latvia--227,000
Lithuania--353,000
Luxembourg--2,000
Malaya--100,000
Netherlands17,000301,000
New Zealand11,90011,900
Norway3,0009,500
Papua New Guinea--15,000
Philippines57,000500,000-1,000,000
Poland240,0005,600,000
Romania300,000833,000
Singapore--50,000
South Africa11,90011,900
Soviet Union8,800,000-10,700,00024,000,000
United Kingdom383,600450,700
United States416,800418,500
Yugoslavia446,0001,000,000

WORLDWIDE CASUALTIES*

Battle Deaths15,000,000
Battle Wounded25,000,000
Civilian Deaths45,000,000

*Worldwide casualty estimates vary widely in several sources. The number of civilian deaths in China alone might well be more than 50,000,000.
 
mufti.jpeg
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a "Palestinian" (He never identified that way because it wasn't a nationality) was the one that convinced Hitler to not proceed with the Haavara agreement (which was meant to transfer the Jews of Germany to Israel) and influenced him towards the final solution against the Jews.

Add more fuel to the fire, the Arabs tried to wipe out the a bunch of holocaust survivors 3 years after the end of the holocaust and now they cry we conquered them as a result.
Stop changing history, the Palestinians took you with open arms but the Jews that you are you stabbed them in the back and double crossed them with the help of the British Zions. The British armed you to the teeth because of the surplus of arms from WW2 and the poor Palestinians were defenseless. The Palestinians were thrown into refugee camps and their Arab neighbours had stooges enthroned who lept to the carrot of oil money and indulged in luxury and harems. What happened next was a failure of the UN to stop ethnic cleansing and genocide mainly because UN was a rubber stamp colonial enterprise.
 
How is Balfour declaration, which wasn't even fulfilled up until 1948, which was meant to create a Jewish state, somehow the cause of the murder of 6 million Jews?

Khazar theory is a disproven myth, Jews were exiled all over the world yet they still all share genetic link. Cope hard anyways.


Europe had remains and ashes all around
Ashes
406998fe-db64-4079-b2f8-7e1d744ce660.jpg.pagespeed.ce.Un8oB981YW.jpg

46c64d1b-6f10-4428-9a19-8bee619b5aa1.jpg.pagespeed.ce.FPJ1LCDpd7.jpg

166-115470_g.jpg


Mass graves

grave-Bergen-Belsen-Germany-concentration-camp.jpg


expo5_04_l.jpg

AP16271333078760.jpg

it was funded by evil rothschild i am talking bout w1, w2. read antony sutton he has also said same thing.
 
WW1 photos, and """Jews""" that never identified as such.

Arabs began killing Jews before the Nazis did, and Palestinians never existed before the Nazis.

Cry some more, Israel is ours
once that arab began the killing come up and i showed that in all those incidents , jews started the conflict not palestinians
 
Don’t let the white boy distort history the concept of Palestine (derived from the biblical 'Philistine') is one which can be traced to the beginning of recorded history, grounded in a distinctive Palestinian culture that long predates the Old Testament narrative of Israelite conquest. Beginning with the earliest references to the area in ancient texts, Masalha explores how the concept of Palestine and its associated identity has evolved over thousands of years, from the Bronze Age to the present day. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine's past has been distorted and mythologised by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, this magisterial work uncovers the true depth and complexity of Palestine's millennia-old heritage, and represents the authoritative account of the country's history.

0DE3CC43-F2D6-4898-BD2F-4FA2A64FA297.png
 
That is because they only care about when their own race gets killed.
That is how racists think.
The decisions made by Hitler was objectibly worse than those of Churchill.
Hitlers decisions certainly resulted in famine in India for a starter.
as far as I'm aware English and USSR caused famine in south Asia ands middle east not hitter
 
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Palestinian occur everywhere. Muslim umma is awakening and more and more world comes to realize israHelli agenda and crimes. Qatar football world cup was a small show for same.
BTW I will say again..... You know what will happen to you, don't you? 😜
I mean another divine punishment (this time will be final).
Hints: All the zios gathering to a single point..... Complete wipe out... Trees... Stones etc 😁
Come on with your shitty *** umma and retarded prophecies that never happen I wanna see you try and do something

Stop changing history, the Palestinians took you with open arms but the Jews that you are you stabbed them in the back and double crossed them with the help of the British Zions. The British armed you to the teeth because of the surplus of arms from WW2 and the poor Palestinians were defenseless. The Palestinians were thrown into refugee camps and their Arab neighbours had stooges enthroned who lept to the carrot of oil money and indulged in luxury and harems. What happened next was a failure of the UN to stop ethnic cleansing and genocide mainly because UN was a rubber stamp colonial enterprise.
Open arms my *** the local Arabs were split in tribes that kept murdering each other over trivial disputes, let alone Jews, Arabs started killing Jews way before WW2 started like the Hebron massacre.
Palestinians were thrown into refugee camps by the Jordanians and Egyptians and they were refugees because you idiots started a war against people far stronger and smarter than you.

once that arab began the killing come up and i showed that in all those incidents , jews started the conflict not palestinians
Lol
1672261698584.png

Tell me who started terror attacks again?

it was funded by evil rothschild i am talking bout w1, w2. read antony sutton he has also said same thing.
You're not answering the question, how did the Balfour declaration cause the Holocaust?
 
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as far as I'm aware English and USSR caused famine in south Asia ands middle east not hitter
There would not have been a famine, if Hitler had not started WWII.

Stop changing history, the Palestinians took you with open arms but the Jews that you are you stabbed them in the back and double crossed them with the help of the British Zions. The British armed you to the teeth because of the surplus of arms from WW2 and the poor Palestinians were defenseless. The Palestinians were thrown into refugee camps and their Arab neighbours had stooges enthroned who lept to the carrot of oil money and indulged in luxury and harems. What happened next was a failure of the UN to stop ethnic cleansing and genocide mainly because UN was a rubber stamp colonial enterprise.
The Palestinians at that time were the Jews…
How come the Arabs fought with British Weapons and the Jews fought with weapons from Czechoslovakia?
1672266147479.jpeg

The British abstained from voting in the UN vote on splitting the Mandate.
Did You ever study history, or did You just watch propaganda?
 
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OK! .... in your words, Jews are native of this land for "thousands" of years -- correct?

The question is, who were the natives of this land before thousands of years? --- they were the Philistine people.

Israelites fought against the army of Philistines under the command of King Saul.
David killed Goliath.
This is where the story of Israelites in this land begins.

So, Israelites are not native to this land.
You guys invaded.
The area was fought over between Egypt and the Hittites at Megiddo (Armageddon) under Ramesses II 1300B.C-1200B.C.

The Philistines were invaders that appeared 1200B.C about the same time as the ”Sea People” and there are many historians believe that they are one and the same. The Sea People came from the West, so an origin in Southern Europe seems likely.
If all the Arabs could now please evacuate the area and leave it to the Europeans, we would be much obliged - or did I misunderstand You?

The Story of Jews in Israel begins with Abraham, leaving with his family from todays Iraq, ending up in the land if Caanan. Many years later Joseph escapes to Egypt, invites his family which becomes slaves. They escape lead by Moses and entered Caanan before the arrival of the Sea People.
 

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