When Charlie Hebdo Denied Freedom of Expresion to its Cartoonist

[TurAr]

Why should I? Its my freedom to express! Why stop me from showing the truth but bow your head in front of hypocrisy and lies?

Because "freedom of expression" obviously have significantly different meanings from East to West and culture to culture. What you might regard as disrespect might not be considered such, somewhere else. So you cannot blame people (which usually comes after "I don't justify killings but") for being radicals or being full of hatred or being disrespectful for drawing a cartoon.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, there you have it. Those who were killed somehow deserved to die because they dared to think differently. That is the apologist's mantra. Despicable.

 

[Dubious]

Because i can sense the "Charlie Hebdo had it coming " in your narative

I am sorry your senses are as limited as your knowledge

Because "freedom of expression" obviously have significantly different meanings from East to West and culture to culture. What you might regard as disrespect might not be considered such, somewhere else. So you cannot blame people (which usually comes after "I don't justify killings but") for being radicals or being full of hatred or being disrespectful for drawing a cartoon.

Show me where I said

it is DISRESPECTFUL ON ME


I have always tried to put my arguments as detached from myself as possible!

The only time I do say I is when I condemn

Whatever comes after it is analysis or even something I have read, summary of reports, events in my lifetime even (some of the wars happened when I was old enough to know they were wrong)

If you read that...THAT is your own fault!

Yes, there you have it. Those who were killed somehow deserved to die because they dared to think differently. That is the apologist's mantra. Despicable.

Despicable is your middle name!

Had they deserved to die or not they would or wouldnt die with or without me saying anything!

Because the apologist mind works in the same ways.

@flamer84
If what I wrote is the mindset of apologist then you should tell my lecturer I am taking a course on war and terrorism....

Heck even in the course they teach you what causes it!

i am still waiting for an answer to my question... i even tagged you... what is it debate on emotions but can not debate logic is that it?

He really cant!

Well said.

by the way - one of the gunmen spent time in jail for drug dealing charges.

not exactly model religious figures

Sadly no one sees that! it is disgusting how everyone wants to be the first to point to a Muslim without knowing what a Muslim is!

 

[flamer84]

I am sorry your senses are as limited as your knowledge


Show me where I said

it is DISRESPECTFUL ON ME


I have always tried to put my arguments as detached from myself as possible!

The only time I do say I is when I condemn

Whatever comes after it is analysis or even something I have read, summary of reports, events in my lifetime even (some of the wars happened when I was old enough to know they were wrong)

If you read that...THAT is your own fault!


Despicable is your middle name!

Had they deserved to die or not they would or wouldnt die with or without me saying anything!

@flamer84
If what I wrote is the mindset of apologist then you should tell my lecturer I am taking a course on war and terrorism....

Heck even in the course they teach you what causes it!


He really cant!


Sadly no one sees that! it is disgusting how everyone wants to be the first to point to a Muslim without knowing what a Muslim is!

Now you're just attacking all the people who sensed the same why i did in your speech.When one person tells you that you're drunk ,you argue with him,when more tell you the same...you go to sleep.

 

[EL LOBO]

That is insanity!

He/ she can mock all they want! their business...

the very fact that he or she will get something is more to do with he or she being involved in something in the background!

u r a general, sir i cannot reach your experience neither with words nor with anything else.....

but that is correct

 

[Dubious]

Now you're just attacking all the people who sensed the same why i did in your speech.When one person tells you that you're drunk ,you argue with him,when more tell you the same...you go to sleep.

Attacking? Making myself heard is not attacking! I use bold print to pass the point and to remind that I have a voice too

They sensed it coz it is the sensation...And @Syed.Ali.Haider is the protector of the Western world...dont you know? He is also the one who will show up on threads where Islam is being bashed esp if it is the Arab world

One with such a history shouldnt be taken seriously...But maligning a girl online coz she has the analyzing skills others refuse to use is shameful act!

I wouldnt know how to deal with a drunk or when one is drunk never been and dont go to a drunk to tell him he is drunk...not my cup of tea!

 

[VCheng]

Now you're just attacking all the people who sensed the same why i did in your speech.When one person tells you that you're drunk ,you argue with him,when more tell you the same...you go to sleep.

That is the apologist's way. These people make up the majority of the congregation that is led by a radicalizing preacher who then scout for and condition the vulnerable ones to lash out. This is not the first time it has happened.

 

[Dubious]

u r a general, sir i cannot reach your experience neither with words nor with anything else.....

but that is correct

Dont go by the ranks...they are given based on number of post...even if you typed ok in every thread your rank will surely rise!

That is the apologist's way. These people make up the majority of the congregation that is led by a radicalizing preacher who then scout for and condition the vulnerable ones to lash out. This is not the first time it has happened.

and here is the proof of what I said...Islam bashing checked...go on..

 

[Serpentine]

But why stop at European colonial past ? Why not go back to the 7-8th centuries when all the Christian ME,Northern Africa was invaded by Muslims ? Why not point fingers at Muslim Ottoman colonialism in Europe,Muslim colonialism in Spain ? Why not go back and point fingers at the Iranian Sassanids agression acts against the Romans ?

After all of this we have an answer....Charlie Hebdo was killed because a human threw a rock at another human 3000 years ago.Those terrorists are innocent,that evil Homo Sapiens who did something 3000years ago it's at fault.

You didn't get my point, all I'm saying, if these kinds of attacks give the right to main stream media to bold the 'Muslim' part in these attacks and also emphasize so much on this incident that they almost missed that tens of other people were killed by same terrorists, the security council who only reacts when one of its members are under attack or one of the 'first world' countries, then you can't just tell other people to condemn the attack and then shut up. Don't you think that you are the one making excuses here?

All people, including myself, have condemned this terrorist attack here and everywhere we could, so you just can't ask us to stop pointing out some European hypocrisy when it comes to world affairs.

Hassan Nasrallah of the Lebanese Hezbollah made a very interesting speech yesterday. Pretty well articulated, if i may say. Condemned the attack but also reminded tht it was certain countries that utilized extremists/fanatics for their secret wars in Libya, Syria etc.

the scum bags (former criminals) who did these attacks are the same type of people they are dispatching to the Syria/Iraq theaters. In Libya - the French were the most active in recruiting these people. Failed and dangerous policies.

You just wrote my thoughts bro, that's it. They can't tolerate other people pointing out to their hypocrisy and failed policies which besides killing hundreds of thousands in ME, Pakistan and Africa, is now also starting to bite their own people too.

France never cared for those scumbags leaving Syria. Do you believe that their intelligence agency couldn't track them down before leaving for Syria and Iraq? Of course they could, but they just didn't give a $hit, because they were going to Syria to fight Assad and to kill Syrians, and they don't hate that to happen in their hearts. But now that only one of those terrorists launched a domestic attack, they are crying all over the media. No one even mentions Europe and western policies in ME. Didn't the U.S invasion along with UK and others put the foundations of ISIS in Iraq?

 

[MarkusS]

I think some muslims still didn´t get the message. We will not bow infront your barbarism. I never saw so much mohamed caricatures ever before like now. This magazine will be printed one million times. Its printed in all big media in europe. If your goal was to make us stop making mohamed caricatures then you failed big time.

 

[salarsikander]

I think some muslims still didn´t get the message. We will not bow infront your barbarism. I never saw so much mohamed caricatures ever before like now. This magazine will be printed one million times. Its printed in all big media in europe. If your goal was to make us stop making mohamed caricatures then you failed big time.

Shoo go away troll

 

[Serpentine]

I think some muslims still didn´t get the message. We will not bow infront your barbarism. I never saw so much mohamed caricatures ever before like now. This magazine will be printed one million times. Its printed in all big media in europe. If your goal was to make us stop making mohamed caricatures then you failed big time.

Here comes the white supremacist.

 

[Dubious]

Yes, thats my idea... and the ideal of citizens living in democratic secular nations. If those islamists dont like them, they are free to leave to their backward dark age nations where there are religious courts and laws or the shithole called Islamic "state" itself !.
And if the resort to violence, they will be exterminated. Period.

I am not sure what they like or not...Let us not forget what happened in Paris was done by ex criminals....Ex criminals France is keeping in its borders....

And it does not matter for me if its in my country or somewhere else like France... I stand with anyone who beliefs in these ideals.

Good to know

And I believe you are right, there are not evil people (if you look at it 100% in an objective way, which is impossible).. Hitler did not believe that what he was doing was evil... yesterdays terrorists did not believe that what they did was evil... the monsters who killed little children in Pashawar did not believe that they were the evil ones... for them, those who see them as evil are the evil ones.

Did I say that? Please stop implying! It is disgusting!

We, who live in a modern nations with the ideals of democracy, freedom and secularism are united in our beliefs in these values.

Are you so? Most of Europe doesnt like France...I have only been there once so I asked around before going to Paris...and when I said most ...I mean I asked almost ALL my colleagues in the various stations I get put in...Heck I even asked some friends in America and Germany...all they can say about France is the Eiffel tower nothing more

And we dont give a sh*t if your 1400 years old text prohibit US from doing things we like to do which are ok according to our laws made by the people !!. One is free to do follow and practice any religion as long as one does not start requiring others to live by its laws.

Please do invite US soldiers to commit war crimes in India! Then speak with me once they are done..
As I said earlier it is more than just cartoons that triggered them and if warning about the obvious is an apologist then I suggest you look up the word again!

And if anyone starts doing so he/she will be facing the consequences. Freedom came at a cost... and will be defended with all means if necessary.

Practice what you preach!!!!

@flamer84
Answer me this:
Why should I apologize for what they did?

Did they ask me before they committed their crime?

Did they ask our permission before they yelled some Muslim slogan? Do we have copyrights for such slogans?

Did they check if Islam allowed it?

Answer to all is no! THEN WHY ON EARTH am I called an apologist? Why on earth should I not tell what is YOUR bloody mistakes which caused your own pain?


I am not saying it was right for them to be killed! But why should I apologize for what some moron did when I wasnt consulted before he made his move?

Why does Islam go to trial when Islam wasnt checked if it allowed killing blindly of unarmed people?

Why is there a call for hatred against Muslims?

When your brother steals are you dragged to jail?

If these are saviors of Islam well they havent made Muslims to be liked! So why the hell am I called an apologist when ALL I AM DOING IS WRITING DOWN HOW THEIR BLOODY MIND WORKS AND WHAT SCREWED IT!

You both still didnt answer!

 

[gambit]

Because "freedom of expression" obviously have significantly different meanings from East to West and culture to culture. What you might regard as disrespect might not be considered such, somewhere else. So you cannot blame people (which usually comes after "I don't justify killings but") for being radicals or being full of hatred or being disrespectful for drawing a cartoon.

Generally, your kind of oblique defense of this kind of atrocity is directed at the victims, not at the perpetrator(s). You do not have the courage to tell other peoples with different interpretations of 'freedom of speech' to be as understanding as you want us to be. You do not want to say to the Muslims: 'Please understand that these filthy infidels have not yet received Allah into their hearts. They are like immature children, so let us be the tolerant adults in this world.'

What I see is common...

First...There are the usual obligatory condemnations.

Then...Dragged in US involvement in the ME, support for the Joos, invasion of Iraq, etc.

Then...Historical wrongs of Christians such as the Inquisition.

Then...Indirectly blaming the victims by saying they provoked the emotional response by <doing whatever>.

 

[Dubious]

Let me tell you what needs to be stopped. Your excuses for the murders. Nobody have to respect your (or any) religion, nobody have to respect its teachings. If it was the case, there wouldn't have been 5 billion people who are refusing to believe it. People have to respect your right to believe in one but don't force it down people's throat by reinterpreting the definition of respect and hatred. You should stop passing judgements on Europe by the standards of your own country.

Let me tell you what needs to stop...War crimes in every corner of the world need to stop
Free immigration for redemption needs to stop
Free asylum for people who do crimes in their own land needs to stop
Free weapons for both sides (rebels + govt) needs to stop!

Learn the basics before jumping in...

As for judgement on Europe! Heck why should I use my country as a standard when Europe's dirty laundry are no longer a secret!