Whats your baradari or tribe?

[Hyperion]

Very accurate reply.

@Contrarian, he is right.

Hardly the case, deobandi movement was in reaction to British occupation and advocated violent rebellion and jihad to rid South Asia of the British. In retaliation British propped up another sect in opposition which served to divide the voice and Muslims were busy fighting that sect instead of the British so the movement failed during British era.

Then deobandi popped up again during soviet invasion of Afghanistan and was encouraged by saudis, pakistani isi, and CIA. This was more successful obvious and then this same ideology was used to encourage Kashmiris to insurrection with bloody results but not effective lol.

 

[KingMamba]

Very accurate reply.

@Contrarian, he is right.

Haha can you guess which sect British created in opposition to Deobandis?

Interesting. Thanks for the information.

I was talking about the increase of Deobandis and Wahabis in Kashmir specifically. That started on a steady scale in the 80's and 90's on account of madrassas preaching love. The money for those madrassas came from the Gulf.

And at that time, GoI was either ineffective or unable to recognize the dangers that the money flowing to Islamic charity was causing. The clampdown on these charities and funding in India started after 9/11.

Now money for these goes mostly through hawala route. The hawala route itself became harder after GoI put up the fence along the Pakistan border. So the money flow has lessened.

Money flow no longer matters because the incentive to fight in the valley is high, that is why you can never really clamp down on the Kashmiris as they are already deobandi lol. You can minimize the damages since they will not have proper weaponry if they do not get monetary support but the bitterness will continue to fester.

 

[guluchulo]

Haha can you guess which sect British created in opposition to Deobandis?



Money flow no longer matters because the incentive to fight in the valley is high, that is why you can never really clamp down on the Kashmiris as they are already deobandi lol. You can minimize the damages since they will not have proper weaponry if they do not get monetary support but the bitterness will continue to fester.

Ahmadi

 

[Sugarcane]

Funding use to go to Deobandis until the Ahle Hadith movement became bigger than Saudis realized that Ahle Hadith were closer to them so now it goes to Ahle Hadith. Even Denzil Ibbetson noted that Ahle Hadith were closest to Wahabis of Saudi Arabia in his census on tribes in British India hundreds of years ago.

Maybe in FATA & KPK area??? because in 80s it was mostly Pashtuns who used to go for jihad in Afghanistan. In Punjab there were many Mosques who used to get funds from KSA, Imam of our nearby mosque used to go every now and than for Umrah - but Zia's death reduced his Umrah tickets and a Deobandi mosque was opened in competition.

 

[Hyperion]

At that time even we were unaware of the real-prolonged consequences (1980's to 1990's).... the thing is, the funding hasn't stopped yet. If anything, it has gained pace in Pakistan.

Interesting. Thanks for the information.

I was talking about the increase of Deobandis and Wahabis in Kashmir specifically. That started on a steady scale in the 80's and 90's on account of madrassas preaching love. The money for those madrassas came from the Gulf.

And at that time, GoI was either ineffective or unable to recognize the dangers that the money flowing to Islamic charity was causing. The clampdown on these charities and funding in India started after 9/11.

Now money for these goes mostly through hawala route. The hawala route itself became harder after GoI put up the fence along the Pakistan border. So the money flow has lessened.

 

[KingMamba]

Maybe in FATA & KPK area??? because in 80s it was mostly Pashtuns who used to go for jihad in Afghanistan. In Punjab there were many Mosques who used to get funds from KSA, Imam of our nearby mosque used to go every now and than for Umrah - but Zia's death reduced his Umrah tickets and a Deobandi mosque was opened in competition.

Yeah the madaras were started in Pashtun areas because if we sent Punjabis soviets would obviously be able to tell it was outright Pakistani involvement although at the end they knew anyway.

In Punjab it is harder for deobandis to gain a real foothold because most Punjabis follow some sufi dargah and today their children are mureeds to the successors of said dargahs. That is why nowadays deobandis try to blow up sufi shrines because that is their main obstacle.

 

[Hyperion]

The Brits were so dumb that they even sent an official notification for it. I have seen a copy of it in it's original format. Sadly, the Ahmadi's still challenge it's existence and authenticity.

Ahmadi's are one "group" of people, I may never understand. Not that I want to either.

Haha can you guess which sect British created in opposition to Deobandis?



Money flow no longer matters because the incentive to fight in the valley is high, that is why you can never really clamp down on the Kashmiris as they are already deobandi lol. You can minimize the damages since they will not have proper weaponry if they do not get monetary support but the bitterness will continue to fester.

 

[KingMamba]

Ahmadi

Yep. Why you think people call them british agents lol, although nowadays the new generation of qadiani do not know the history of their movement so we should not hold them accountable that is zulm.

The Brits were so dumb that they even sent an official notification for it. I have seen a copy of it in it's original format. Sadly, the Ahmadi's still challenge it's existence and authenticity.

Ahmadi's are one "group" of people, I may never understand. Not that I want to either.

Yeah it was an open secret, he was the Gandhi of the Muslims lol. Even my forefathers were sufi so when ahmadi movement first started they had no problem but then the founder got carried away under british patronage and he started claiming he is prophet, krishna, jesus and God knows what else then all sects turned against them lol.

 

[Informant]

The Brits were so dumb that they even sent an official notification for it. I have seen a copy of it in it's original format. Sadly, the Ahmadi's still challenge it's existence and authenticity.

Ahmadi's are one "group" of people, I may never understand. Not that I want to either.

Do you even sleep? You must be a wizard!

Tell me why do Pathans have these enmities? I mean the "dushmaniyan" which frankly is very "Pukhtoonish" thing. I have few friends and they say the same thing. Going through their land, need arms. What are these lardayyans for?

And how are you my sidekick?

 

[RazPaK]

Why are we talking religion here?

 

[Hyperion]

Sidekick my ......

Why we have these enmities? Because we are emotional and irrational people.... just like I want to bang your head into a concrete wall.......

Do you even sleep? You must be a wizard!

Tell me why do Pathans have these enmities? I mean the "dushmaniyan" which frankly is very "Pukhtoonish" thing. I have few friends and they say the same thing. Going through their land, need arms. What are these lardayyans for?

And how are you my sidekick?

 

[Hyperion]

To be frank, we can't afford more Deobandi's in the mix. No thank you to IoK. They can keep it. Forever.

Yeah true honestly I don't care for Pakistan getting all of kashmir or anything like that if kashmiris come to agreeable terms with GOP and GOI I would be fine with current borders.

 

[KingMamba]

I dont believe that is even possible.
Because US(God bless them) even forced Saudis to stop the excessive funding to terrorist groups and outright terrorism preachers.

That has had a major impact.

For India, there have been 3 developments that has curtailed spread of such wahabi seminaries:
1. GoI checks on money transfer by legal routes.
2. Fencing and hi tec gadgetry deployed on LoC to prevent infiltration and smuggling.
3. US forcing the Gulf countries to tone down the overt monetary support for such groups.

The last part has to yield positive benefits for Pakistan - unless by then the Wahabi and Deoband network became self sustaining and self financing by then. Did it?

USA has stopped government support but most of the money comes from rich private citizens lol. The truth is these Saudis think it is going to a good cause but it is obviously not.

 

[Sugarcane]

Yeah it was an open secret, he was the Gandhi of the Muslims lol. Even my forefathers were sufi so when ahmadi movement first started they had no problem but then the founder got carried away under british patronage and he started claiming he is prophet, krishna, jesus and God knows what else then all sects turned against them lol.

But they also worked hard to convince Punjabi Muslims for Pakistan movement as most of rural Punjabi was unaware of what's happening outside their Pinds

 

[Hyperion]

Biaaaaaaach, where art thou?

@Informant