whats the difference between our fence with Afghanistan vs the one with India?

[DESERT FIGHTER]

My comment was tongue in cheek, I trust what you are saying. How have you been...

2022 has been a bad year… will talk sometime in another thread.
Hope you are doing fine.

 

[Musalman]

My posts have been deleted but the post that offended me is still there. Before you delete this post too.

I am of the view that people here are not in the mood of discussion they impose their ideas.

I am too old for that idiocrasy so I am out

 

[Baburfromsarmarkand]

My posts have been deleted but the post that offended me is still there. Before you delete this post too.

I am of the view that people here are not in the mood of discussion they impose their ideas.

I am too old for that idiocrasy so I am out

Pls dont go man,

 

[Great Janjua]

Indian army and BSF are very much well aware of what has been happening to their border fence for more than two decades now. Simple cutting is afterall not the only way to neutralize it. There are now easier and speedier ways of making passages whenever required.

I believe the bhartis more now looking at Pakistan is getting on the Western border.

 

[TheSolution]

I believe the bhartis more now looking at Pakistan is getting on the Western border.

Bhartis have been using the western border/Afghanistan since forever, and why not? It's a natural alliance as both sides hate Pakistan.

We should expect this and plan accordingly.

 

[TNT]

When will u guys realize, these terrorists are B team of army and they have actually unleashed them. Ordinary afghans worry about food and medicine and not abt Pakistan.

 

[TheSolution]

When will u guys realize, these terrorists are B team of army and they have actually unleashed them. Ordinary afghans worry about food and medicine and not abt Pakistan.

This "ordinary Afghans don't care about Pakistan" is an overplayed lie that no one buys anymore.

We've had enough interactions and observed them for long enough to know this is pure BS.

And we also know about the extremism in Pakistani society especially in tribal areas so we aren't buying the B-team stuff either. Stop deflecting.

 

[TNT]

This "ordinary Afghans don't care about Pakistan" is an overplayed lie that no one buys anymore.

We've had enough interactions and observed them for long enough to know this is pure BS.

And we also know about the extremism in Pakistani society especially in tribal areas so we aren't buying the B-team stuff either. Stop deflecting.

Yea u wont believe untill u see army helping TTP convoys pass through at night while there is curfew. You may believe when ur far relatives as TTP foot soldiers tell u they used to get weapon drops from army choppers. Maybe u can eat badaam and then realize why ppl like ehsanullah ehsan suddenly disappear from prison and end up in a foreign country. Or maybe u can ask why no terrorist could cross the fence in past 8 years but suddenly they are all over KPK with their weapons and wives.

 

[TheSolution]

Yea u wont believe untill u see army helping TTP convoys pass through at night while there is curfew. You may believe when ur far relatives as TTP foot soldiers tell u they used to get weapon drops from army choppers. Maybe u can eat badaam and then realize why ppl like ehsanullah ehsan suddenly disappear from prison and end up in a foreign country. Or maybe u can ask why no terrorist could cross the fence in past 8 years but suddenly they are all over KPK with their weapons and wives.

No proof of such apart from your claims which I already don't buy after your initial lie.

It is quite simple, Americans left Afghanistan, TTP infiltration increased while the army slept like retards. That is their trademark, incompetency and corruption.

But to blame everything on the army when it's clearly Afghani nasl is just deflecting due to your own sympathies.

You also just admitted your far relatives were joining TTP but nah it's an army project As I said extremism in society is rife, especially in tribal areas who have a tribal lifestyle influence.

Pakistan should treat Afghanistan exactly like how America treated the Japanese - give them an option for a full surrender, for every time they decline, drop a nuke city by city. Only way they'll stop their BS and will happen eventually most likely.

Brute extreme force is the answer. No point of engaging in guerilla warfare with them, they've been doing that for centuries. Nukes and destructive power is the solution.

One attack in Pakistan should be 100 lives in Afghanistan.

 

[TNT]

No proof of such apart from your claims which I already don't buy after your initial lie.

It is quite simple, Americans left Afghanistan, TTP infiltration increased while the army slept like retards. That is their trademark, incompetency and corruption.

But to blame everything on the army when it's clearly Afghani nasl is just deflecting due to your own sympathies.

You also just admitted your far relatives were joining TTP but nah it's an army project As I said extremism in society is rife, especially in tribal areas who have a tribal lifestyle influence.

Pakistan should treat Afghanistan exactly like how America treated the Japanese - give them an option for a full surrender, for every time they decline, drop a nuke city by city. Only way they'll stop their BS and will happen eventually most likely.

Brute extreme force is the answer. No point of engaging in guerilla warfare with them, they've been doing that for centuries. Nukes and destructive power is the solution.

One attack in Pakistan should be 100 lives in Afghanistan.

Yeah and how did ehsanullah ehsan disappear? Why was sufi muhammad treated like a general?
Ive never denied tribals being extremits but that also is due to the medrassas built with saudi n CIA money by our own army. Yeah my far relatives and villagers were in TTP due to being brought up in medrassas, the ones created by these imbecils. Tribal life style influence was not extremist historically, read some history. They did have love for religion and these evil satan generals exploited it, created thousands of medrassas, brainwashed them into extremists. I am also a tribal but i hate mullah more than a kafir, and majority now hate them too, why is that ?? One guage is election results. U deny those medrassas? U deny army support for taliban be it TTA or whatever? U deny top terrorists miraculously disappeared n appeared in foreign country??
Afghanistan issue is old n complex, evwn Pakistani pashtuns hate Afghanistan pashtuns, read how there been many wars between the two, we don't have any lost love for them but we do feel betrayed by how this colonial army have treated Pakistani citizen pashtuns, how 70,000 medrassas created and our generation made extremists and now conveniently ppl like u blame us.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned, we would want to get rid of them too but being pashtuns, we tell u that this stupid mentality of brute force can never work, it didn't work for british and soviets, how will it work for a bankrupt weak country like Pakistan? Soviet were the most brutal and they faced the most losses as well, americans were smarter n used carrot n stick n were more humane, but that still didn't work. What makes u think Pakistan can do what 3 superpowers couldn't? Makes me wonder about the mental level of such ppl. Ull kill them? They dont care, they will keep killing u, they can produce 16 children from one wife. U nuke them, they ll become even more aggressive and not to forget the radiation will eventually reach us too. Sorry to say ur suggestions are extremely stupid.
There are other ways to solve these problems but that requires a sincere leader and not a foreign puppet, u dont need poison if sugar can work.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Yeah and how did ehsanullah ehsan disappear? Why was sufi muhammad treated like a general?
Ive never denied tribals being extremits but that also is due to the medrassas built with saudi n CIA money by our own army. Yeah my far relatives and villagers were in TTP due to being brought up in medrassas, the ones created by these imbecils. Tribal life style influence was not extremist historically, read some history. They did have love for religion and these evil satan generals exploited it, created thousands of medrassas, brainwashed them into extremists. I am also a tribal but i hate mullah more than a kafir, and majority now hate them too, why is that ?? One guage is election results. U deny those medrassas? U deny army support for taliban be it TTA or whatever? U deny top terrorists miraculously disappeared n appeared in foreign country??
Afghanistan issue is old n complex, evwn Pakistani pashtuns hate Afghanistan pashtuns, read how there been many wars between the two, we don't have any lost love for them but we do feel betrayed by how this colonial army have treated Pakistani citizen pashtuns, how 70,000 medrassas created and our generation made extremists and now conveniently ppl like u blame us.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned, we would want to get rid of them too but being pashtuns, we tell u that this stupid mentality of brute force can never work, it didn't work for british and soviets, how will it work for a bankrupt weak country like Pakistan? Soviet were the most brutal and they faced the most losses as well, americans were smarter n used carrot n stick n were more humane, but that still didn't work. What makes u think Pakistan can do what 3 superpowers couldn't? Makes me wonder about the mental level of such ppl. Ull kill them? They dont care, they will keep killing u, they can produce 16 children from one wife. U nuke them, they ll become even more aggressive and not to forget the radiation will eventually reach us too. Sorry to say ur suggestions are extremely stupid.
There are other ways to solve these problems but that requires a sincere leader and not a foreign puppet, u dont need poison if sugar can work.

Pa PDF kee mashoman pedi rowaz kee dera leewaney dey

No proof of such apart from your claims which I already don't buy after your initial lie.

A mod on PDF also alluded to what he was saying and also how Quetta Police were told not to go after certain people.

Terrorists block Babusar road, take GB minister and two foreigners hostage

I remember posting a video clip on this forum last year, where this militant commander was giving interview to a media guy near Babusar top, and it was repeatedly deleted as propaganda, even after BBC urdu reported on the incident. I was also issued warnings to not post it again, I believe The...

defence.pk

 

[TheSolution]

Yeah and how did ehsanullah ehsan disappear? Why was sufi muhammad treated like a general?
Ive never denied tribals being extremits but that also is due to the medrassas built with saudi n CIA money by our own army. Yeah my far relatives and villagers were in TTP due to being brought up in medrassas, the ones created by these imbecils. Tribal life style influence was not extremist historically, read some history. They did have love for religion and these evil satan generals exploited it, created thousands of medrassas, brainwashed them into extremists. I am also a tribal but i hate mullah more than a kafir, and majority now hate them too, why is that ?? One guage is election results. U deny those medrassas? U deny army support for taliban be it TTA or whatever? U deny top terrorists miraculously disappeared n appeared in foreign country??
Afghanistan issue is old n complex, evwn Pakistani pashtuns hate Afghanistan pashtuns, read how there been many wars between the two, we don't have any lost love for them but we do feel betrayed by how this colonial army have treated Pakistani citizen pashtuns, how 70,000 medrassas created and our generation made extremists and now conveniently ppl like u blame us.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned, we would want to get rid of them too but being pashtuns, we tell u that this stupid mentality of brute force can never work, it didn't work for british and soviets, how will it work for a bankrupt weak country like Pakistan? Soviet were the most brutal and they faced the most losses as well, americans were smarter n used carrot n stick n were more humane, but that still didn't work. What makes u think Pakistan can do what 3 superpowers couldn't? Makes me wonder about the mental level of such ppl. Ull kill them? They dont care, they will keep killing u, they can produce 16 children from one wife. U nuke them, they ll become even more aggressive and not to forget the radiation will eventually reach us too. Sorry to say ur suggestions are extremely stupid.
There are other ways to solve these problems but that requires a sincere leader and not a foreign puppet, u dont need poison if sugar can work.

Well I genuinely see no other way out apart from one side winning with complete brute force or we will be stuck in a stale mate like right now.

The most ideal non-destructive solution I can think of would be difficult implementing in itself but it would be establishing the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan as Western Pakhtunkwa. But this seems incredibly unlikely because they despise Pakistan to the core.

What solution would you suggest?

 

[TNT]

Well I genuinely see no other way out apart from one side winning with complete brute force or we will be stuck in a stale mate like right now.

The most ideal non-destructive solution I can think of would be difficult implementing in itself but it would be establishing the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan as Western Pakhtunkwa. But this seems incredibly unlikely because they despise Pakistan to the core.

What solution would you suggest?

Hi ill reply with a long post, read it when u get the time.

Well u have to understand that historically pashtuns have never ever been united, except in few rare occasions with certain leaders like ahmad shah abdali. Usually the biggest tribe had the most power by having a bigger army, better equipment and training, more lands and hence more agriculture and business. Fights among tribes for lands were common and every tribe had their own way of survival. Afridis for example have mostly gotten good deals from controlling the khyber pass. They taxed those passing by, mostly other pashtun tribes n turks central asians and even mughal and then brits. Yousafzai were the biggest tribe and actually migrated from Afghanistan to eastern lands, defeating local rulers.
dynamics changed in times of british raj. The tribes east of durand were faced with a powerful enemy who had alot of resources n modern weapons. The tribes west of durand at start were equal enemies of brits and we see the anglo afghan wars. The brits realized its impossible to rule over all pashtun tribes at same time because of their decentralization and gorilla tactics in difficult terrain. To rule a collection of tribes, always fighting one another means fighting almost each tribe at once. Hence brits divided n ruled, carrot n stick and smart diplomacy, used all to gain land east of durand and pay the ones west of durand to maintain peace. Usually in tribal customs, paying a tribe means accepting fault and allowing a tribe its claimed land. So the brits did that west and used a combination of the above n force in east and ruled a large hindustan. This was usually acceptable because the borders have always been just imaginary to the ppl and the real deal was who controls the local lands, which were always allowed by big powers. Hence brits ruled area by slowly expanding for 100 odd years but it was not easy and they always had issues, the area was a constant headache, freedom fighters popping here and there, they were constantly in operations in these areas and had to spend alot but they were rich because they sucked whole of india and maintained it for long, untill they couldn't.
now comes the 2nd biggest turn in history as Pakistan emerges, basically on british lines and even maintained in early days by british forces, just names changed to royal Pakistan army, the checks posts, the garrisons, even the ops remained the same. What changed was the money stopped, and new faces and new babus to deal with ( for western durand ppl/admin/local admins). Note that eastern pashtuns, by now had their own bonds created due to living under brit administration whom they hated n always fought but had to survive. Due to brits being more progressive, these pashtuns got more educated and had more exposure with punjab and even upto delhi and bengal. They got basically attached to the east, my own eldest uncle who left his village n went to delhi, got educated n then at partition moved to karachi. And i am from a remote mountainous village.
i believe there has always been anger n hatred in eastern durand pashtuns for the western ones for not supporting as an overall nation. Its like yes we accept them as pashtuns, ease of language n love/hatred for diff accents but thats it. We have more "sayings" against each others than we have against punjabis or any others. The voting right at partition gave ppl the illusion of freedom and i and majority believe the vote to join Pakistan was genuine. Its like we currently know that bad or good, PTI got majority n will win.
so pashtuns east of durand in majority are staunch and proud Pakistanis. The only issues remained in border areas and mostly Waziristan as ppl believe those areas didn't want to join but local malaks were bought n power used. But they r minority n doznt matter much. The western durand Afghanistan, naturally had hatred for new local admin in karachi n then islamabad. The disappearance of british money n aid n new Pakistan not paying anything would naturally make them not like the new admin east of durand. And we all know the rest history.
Now the problem is our recent establishment never worked to keep that original division and exploited it for superpowers' needs in return for money. At creation of Pakistan, Afghanistan tried everything but the border had always been calm. There was trade and locals at tribe level respected ownership of each other land. Peshawar was a city of flowers, a beautiful multi cultral border city with ppl from all over west n central asia. It was known as most peaceful border n no military was ever deployed. You see Afghanistan with all the hatred n propaganda couldn't cause any trouble, why? Because if they did, the locals fought them first. After partition there was skirmishes or even large incursions like the one in bajaur and local fought them before army arrived and helped. This made them realize and border was mostly safe n respected. Why it all changed in past few decades??? All because of stupid decisions and bias of our stupid establishment, mostly started by zia ul haq. Became involved with helping big powers n in turn destroying the delecate new balance created. Infact they exploited pashtun areas love for religion, made medrassas with bought mullahs, leftover from brits through deoband n barelvi (sorry if it offends anyone's belief). These medrassas around 70,000 trained n brainwashed millions of pashtuns, told them u r one ppl and u need to do jihad against ussr n sent hundreds of thousands, made the area hub of weapons(which pashtuns actually loved).
this policy fist by zia and then Musharraf reversed what was achieved at partition, basically making a new nation. The immense number of refugees also meant huge change. I mean Pakistan became worlds largest refugee country, but in reality most of it were in pashtun areas and local burdeed with it, Peshawar became a trash can because it got refugees 3 times its local population, talk of change of dynamics. Imagine suddenly everyone in lahore is indian or bengali and locals become minority. This policy of strategic depth and actually pawn of western powers at expense of a border area have destroyed and affected the whole country.
whats the solution? Reverse the course, but its not easy n requires slow and steady sincere efforts. Remove influence of mullahs, make education compulsory, modernize the curriculum, ban or control the thousands of medrassas, stop giving power to mullahs, slowly reverse refugees and give nationality to the rich ones and those naturalized here, it will remove any hatred they keep n give them sense of acceptance, provide economic support n ease of business for locals at borders. Majority of common ppl dnt give a shit about fence as long as border is always open n goods n ppl can pass through with ease. These borders have always provided for locals through trade which is now mostly hindered. I would also suggest avoid interfering in Afghanistan and allow it to choose whoever they want, through watever means, and then work with those leaders, even if they hate us, they all love money n trade. I think its not as if the issue cannot be solved, our establishment been doing things that caused all this and they are not stopping, forget abt reversing. Now how and who will change establishment n change distribution of power in Pakistan is another huge issue n debate.
The common ppl should actually know that pashtuns are as Pakistanis as anyone and infact more because they even fought for it, with both india and Afghanistan and thus not blame the ppl. Or generalize them because majority matters and instead ask questions from those controlling policies n power.