applesauce
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2009
- Messages
- 3,579
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
lol. It's only BS because you know shit about how military logistic work.
It's not just building a few roads and you can have solved your logistic problem, to supply a expedition like that, you would need to have a fully function network. With Ports, Road (Both MSR and ASR) Railroad and Airport. You can ride a tank from North Korea to the South, even a bombed-out road, but you can't ride a tank from Japan or Philippine or Australia or United State to Korea. That is something you still failed to get. Building all that take time, and South Korea have NOTHING back in 1950. There are 3 stages to conduct logistic operation, first is to build your infrastructure, then you increase your capability (ie start producing more stuff), then you fine tune your need, you don't get to overhaul an entire operation in just a few months. You probably aren't going to get out of the first stage with that time rame.
On the other hand, who told you that you can't have logistic capability when you are under constant bombardment? Ho Chi Ming trail is the most bombed logistic supply line in history, NO OTHER Logistic trail have been comprehensively bombed before and since then, does that stop the North Vietnamese from supplying the Vietcong?
And finally, I never said North Korea have better logistic than the UN, I said there is a limit on either side, and that limit is independent to each other, just because the North rely on donkey to supply their troop and the UN rely on Aircraft and Ship, that does not mean UN is a sure win in the war, because as long as North Korea and Chinese can supply their frontline troop, they can and will hold out the UN, on the other hand, the UN supply line also have its limit and as I said, that line in 1953 is just north of the 38. parallel. There is an old saying in quartermaster "You need fuel to bring fuel to the frontline" every can of fuel you brough in the frontline have to waste another can of fuel just to transport it from you Log Train to frontline. Which mean the longer the Log Train from end to end, the more resource you use to constantly supply your troop. And again, the Log Train for China form end to end is less than 300 mile (from China to 38 Parallel) the Log Train for UN is around 5000 mile + depends on where you are getting your supply from. UN is good, but not that good to offset that difference in just 3 years, even now in modern war. We need approximately a year and a half to stabilise the supply situation in Iraq, and you know how I know? I was there.
Dude, you are extremely simplifying battlefield.
except the us had all of those.
they had the ports like i said. they had unimpeded supply routes from japan and the us. they had years to build the required roads and rail that were not under any danger if it was behind the lines.
you keep saying its thousands of miles away. sure, no disagreements there. but what i keep telling you is that the route is secure, once the convoy route is set up and under way, which it was by the time the stalemate happened, the supplies came into korea non-stop.
the us kept its main supply depots in japan, which is completely untouched by the korean war, and later in Busan which is again untouched post breakout. their supply lines to the front was no longer than china's supply line to the front. you want to count the start point as the us mainland when its actually not, then we might as well count the chinese supply lines as starting moscow then.
i also never disagreed that initially the logistic was not good. but that the us had 2 years to work on it and they did work on it and yet the stalemate continued. you still say oh it takes longer than two years, and yet somehow it took much less than that in ww2
then i keep telling you, the chinese supply routes to the 38th is more perilous, i did not say its was completely stopped, because obvious it was not. but the fact remains it was much harder to supply an army from the yalu to the 38th under enemy near complete air supremacy and having all the roads and rail bombed, than it is from busan with air and naval dominance on your side (along with ports to use and forward airfields).
you act like all of the UN supplies are ordered directly from the us mainland and then carried thousands of miles to the front. this was not true, the main supply points are in japan and busan, what the front required was sent from those areas and those supply points in japan and busan constantly received large unimpeded and safe deliveries from the us. just like how many chinese supplies came from thousands of miles away in south china or even in moscow and send thousands on miles to staging points in manchuria before sending it to the front in Korea.
my point is simple, UN had supply issues in NK and it is a part of the reason why it retreated. however that's only half of it, the other half is that the chinese army in korea could actually fight and even if the UN had adequate supply a retreat to some extent still would have happened. as such PVA fighting capability is on par with supplier issues for the reasons on the UN retreated
for my evidence i showed that the PVA with worse supplies than UN at the 38th was able to continued a stalemate for years despite many issues, including but not limited to enemy air and naval dominance and general equipment deficiencies.
and all you got is "well the us is thousands of miles away" but distance doesn't matter if you can just stash up huge quantities near by completely unopposed