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What would you like to have in the JF-17

Sure... God bless you and how old you are?

by the way i am in late 50s

57 may be...

served 25+ years. have some respect dude.

My eldest son is 23 years old it is quite painful that your younger country man says fck you. You should have convinced me with intellectual debate.
@Zahoor Raja-Jani Sb you are quite correct.
Sir I'm slightly older than your son and I respect as an elderly person but I request you guys make truce with each other. I know @MastanKhan, from my limited experience here on pdf, as a respected, serious and a senior member of pdf and has expertise about aircrafts and airforce related subjects. People here on pdf seek his opinion about aircraft etc.
 
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Mama mama---this bad boy with a picture of a junky is teasing me

No I did not

Yes he did


He started it---

No I did not

Yes he did---he compared me to Zarvan

So what----you deserved it

You are a meany head when you compared me to zarvan

No I am not---you are rude and obnoxious when you called bad name---

Mama---now you two behave yourself---daddy is going to be here shortly---and will fix you both

Where is daddy----you mean to say Webby daddy---okay---I will go sit in my corner

I will also go and sit in my corner



Hi,

It works---doesn't it----.
Sir wants to have your comments on that Sir
@risingsinga
 
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Sir wants to have your comments on that Sir
@risingsinga
Sir I respect you both and I won't anymore but I just wish you both get along well with each other. Sometimes we fail to understand other person's point of view but if we keep ourselves cool and on focus on the subject matter, the forum will be great. As I said I respect you since you are in the same age group as my father.
 
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Hi,

My post was in ref to your post of chinese step by step slow progression---.

That is where SCS came in---the chinese slow progression has found them between a rock and a hard place.

Slow progression in the South China Sea is because of the US. The reigning super power. It would be crazy to suggest the US can be taken easily, even in a limited sense in Asia. In a region such as Africa where we are not faced by the US, we have made swift progress, that includes a really expensive military base.

The same is true for fighters, it is in the upper echelon of military technology, it's insane to suggest someone can perfect it in one go.

What you didn't mention is the alternative of always "refining" it in the development stage and never let it take on the world and see what happens. Pakistan could have waited until this year to induct the first version, but I'm sure it'll face not only technical problems, but also the same problems that it has already solved in the previous years.
 
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Sir,

@Zarvan is a true patriot, and a kind hearted person. His sources have been good, 3 out of 4. No need to belittle him. When it comes to patriotism, we all get a bit over zealous

@MastanKhan His intellectually stimulating conversations are a real mind opener. I may not always agree with his views, but I respect them, simply because God has given him the capability to "think outside the box." Despite not being a member of the armed forces, his knowledge is immense. It actually pains me to see that him and @Indus Falcon have not been given titles as yet, and on the contrary get belittled for petty reasons.

@Maj.Osmani I have deep respect for you and your service to your country. You have contributed very positively to this forum. My humble opinion would be, that both of you should just "agree to disagree" and leave it at that. Look at the +ve's ignore the -ve's and move on. He is a true patriot and should be the least of your worries.

Kindly do take my comments in the right spirit.

Best Regards
 
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So---I think that my fears of the smaller size of JF17 are coming true.

Even though @Bilal Khan 777 would vehemently deny it----the JF17 was a bad design for future upgrades right from the begining.

Its size should have been slightly larger than that of the F16 right from the begining---they already had the example of the Japanese F2 in front of them---.

Aesa was already in production---and it was known that aesa needs more space for cooling system---frame mounted IRST was also operative at that time----as well as the pod.

The wheels---the low profile and short struts on the JF17 came as a big big surprise---that was a WTF moment----.

We already have 3 existing aircraft as an example that sit tall----why would we design one with such a low profile that you cannot hang a heavy weapon underneath the belly due to low clearance---a Q5 Fantan influence?
I guess I mentioned it before that there was an indigenuous design of an aircraft and that was larger, taller with wider landing gears which was shelved due to the lack of funds.
When I was studying at Embry-Riddle, Dr. Raymer came to lecture us about designs and history of the aircrafts, he told us that Masserschmitt (ME262) was a much better aircraft than the Spitfire, but it had one major drawback, the narrow landing gears. So more German pilots were killed during landing due to less stability and high speed than destroyed by allies...
I wish the designers of JF-17 had attend that lecture :(

Sir,

@Zarvan is a true patriot, and a kind hearted person. His sources have been good, 3 out of 4. No need to belittle him. When it comes to patriotism, we all get a bit over zealous

@MastanKhan His intellectually stimulating conversations are a real mind opener. I may not always agree with his views, but I respect them, simply because God has given him the capability to "think outside the box." Despite not being a member of the armed forces, his knowledge is immense. It actually pains me to see that him and @indusfalcon have not been given titles as yet, and on the contrary get belittled for petty reasons.

@Maj.Osmani I have deep respect for you and your service to your country. You have contributed very positively to this forum. My humble opinion would be, that both of you should just "agree to disagree" and leave it at that. Look at the +ve's ignore the -ve's and move on. He is a true patriot and should be the least of your worries.

Kindly do take my comments in the right spirit.

Best Regards
Thank you sir Khafee, I was cringing on this verbal battle between the two people who I have a lot of respect and being so junior I felt intimidated to mediate between them but I wished some senior does it.
 
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" I don't know if there is such rule in Israel,

It's a fact. Most branches that deal with defense be it military units or defense companies have an entire unit dedicated to purely being a devil's advocate. And the Mossad is the biggest "10th man" of all.

This is a comprehensive outlook: http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/re...e kuperwasser/10_intelligence_kuperwasser.pdf

You, sire, the "10th Man" of Pakistan, clearly visible in your posts.

A gift for you Sir

A fanboy's photoshop is hardly fact.
 
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Ideas about the JF-17 Block-III’s IRST

The JF-17 Block-III could incorporate an infrared search and track (IRST) system, but what IRST options are available?

By Bilal Khan

Alongside an active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar, helmet mounted display and sight (HMD/S), high off-boresight (HOBS) air-to-air missiles, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is also considering to equip the forthcoming JF-17 Block-III with an infrared search and track (IRST) system.

While the inclusion of an AESA radar would offer immense benefit, especially in terms of infusing the JF-17 with effective electronic counter-countermeasures (ECCM) capabilities (read here for how), IRST would be a great way to augment those capabilities. Our background brief on IRST summarizes it as the following:

At their core, IRST systems are heat-seeking sensors, just like forward looking infrared (FLIR) pods, but they go a few steps further by enabling users to search and track individual airborne targets.

Since IRST sensors are simply ‘receiving’ an emitting heat signal, they are “passive” sensors. In other words, they do not emit signals of their own (unlike radars, which transmit radio waves).

This enables the tracking fighter to avoid alerting the target’s RWR [radar warning receiver], which is designed to react to active radar signals.

In a within visual range dogfight, an IRST system can enable the user to possess an enhanced level of situational awareness of the combat zone without having to switch-on the radar, thus avoiding the risk of being an “exposed” target to an enemy’s RWR.

Tyler Rogoway, a former writer on Foxtrot Alpha, has an excellent write-up discussing the advantages of IRST in modern aerial combat. To put it simply, IRST is basically an alternative to radar. If one’s fighter aircraft is up against foes with high-quality electronic warfare (EW) and electronic countermeasure (ECM) capabilities, one’s own use of radar may result in jamming and/or an increased probability of detection.

To nullify those risks, one could bring in IRST and try to engage an enemy based on the heat emitted by that enemy’s aircraft. This could be incredibly useful in close-quarters air combat; instead of using radar to detect a nearby object (and risk detection and/or jamming), one could use IRST.

When paired with other ‘passive’ sensors (i.e. sensors that do not emit their own signals), such as HMD/S, a comparatively low-end fighter could have a decent fighting chance against a much more capable foe, despite that foe’s advanced EW/ECM capabilities.

In any case, if you are interested in acquiring an in-depth understanding of the topic, it is highly advised that you consult the Foxtrot Alpha article linked above. For this article, we are going to take a look at some IRST options potentially available to the PAF for use on the JF-17.

At present, it is unclear if the JF-17 Block-III will incorporate an IRST system into the airframe, or if it will use it as an externally integrated pod. This image evidently shows a FC-1 test-unit sporting an externally-equipped IRST pod in China, but that does not necessarily mean that the final product will be confined to an external hardpoint. The PAF has not confirmed either arrangement, so it is possible that the system in question is simply be assessed on its own terms. That said, a pod would enable the PAF to readily integrate IRST onto existing Block-I and Block-II units, but that does not mean the Block-III will not have IRST integrated. Granted, making IRST available as a pod on the JF-17 Block-III would help in reducing development and acquisition costs.

It is likely that China will supply the IRST system, at least for the JF-17 Block-IIIs in use with the PAF. Having developed and integrated IRST for platforms such as the J-10B, China should be able to offer a fairly balanced cost-performance ratio.

An alternative vendor could be found in Finmeccanica, whose Selex ES division has developed the Skyward IRST. Originally designed for use on the Saab Gripen NG, Finmeccanica is marketing the Skyward as a “state-of-the-art” solution, one capable of meeting the “demanding requirements of 5th generation fighter aircraft.” The Skyward is available as an integrated and podded solution. Export clearances and cost will determine whether the PAF will procure the Skyward.

On the other hand, equipping an export variant of the JF-17 Block-III with the Skyward may not be a bad idea, especially if one is intending to market the JF-17 to users accustomed to Western equipment, such as Morocco, Jordan, Qatar, and Malaysia.

Whether the PAF procures the Finmeccanica Skyward or a Chinese alternative, the inclusion of IRST into the JF-17 Block-III will be a welcome event. As with HMD/S systems and AESA radars, IRST would offer the JF-17 a valuable qualitative jump, which will be an important gain considering that the Thunder is emerging as the PAF’s mainstay asset.

http://quwa.org/2016/04/25/ideas-jf-17-block-iiis-irst/

radar-Raven-ES-05-com-Skyguard-no-alto-Laad-2011-foto-Nun%C3%A3o-Poder-A%C3%A9reo.jpg

Raven-ES-05
In addition to the Raven ES AESA radar, the company will also provide the Skyward-G IRST (Infrared Search & Track) passive sensor and IFF
 
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