What would have Jinnah thought of Ajmal Kasab and gang, wonders SC

[Fuego]

If it had not been for the partition, millions more would have died in the civil war that ensued. And there's no way you can put the blame squarely on Jinnah. Nehru and Patel are equally if not more to blame.

Muslims (more than pakistan) lived in India too. Nobody killed 1 million of them.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The common man worships Jinnah, the common fundamentalist despises him. That's why I still hope that we can one day fulfil his vision of a tolerant and prosperous Pakistan.

I do wish all that is indeed so. Amen.

Though sometimes even my credulity crumbles.

 

[Icarus]

That's kind of silly. You are responsible for what happens in your territory. If you argue that you are not, you cede the right to be called a proper state. Arguing that you are going after a few selected parties does not change that perception. The Pakistani state has done nothing to satisfy India on the Mumbai issue. Your territory was used, regardless of the argument of collusion or incompetence, you should take some responsibility. Yet, you have hid yourselves right from the very beginning behind a wall of excuses. You have done no investigation whatsoever on who the plotters were, how the plot was hatched, who the other nine terrorists were....nothing! You & Asim Aquil use the same argument that India has nor provided evidence. India was the target, Pakistan was the place where the plot was hatched & organised. Who should dig up the evidence? India?

Pakistan asked for the Fact Finding Commission to be allowed access to Kasab, a few questions and Hafiz Saeed could have been a hammer drop away from the gallows but India declined. Then the commission settled for a video call but that too was denied and thus in the absence of a direct "Biyan" from the guilty party. Hafiz Saeed walked free. Our judicial system can only be manipulated so much, in the end we can't issue punishments based on pictures of a couple of packets of detergents and a voice call of a man nobody knew.
Lets suppose that Pakistan is indeed colluding with the terrorists and does not want them brought to justice, but what was stopping the Italian police from nabbing the guys who were calling the terrorists over a VoIP connection from Italy?

Who on earth in India will then believe your protestations as genuine? The Americans gave their own independent evidence with David Headley, yet you choose to ignore that & let Hafiz Saeed dance around, just because you get a thrill at poking a finger in India's eye. When it comes back to bite you, don't expect any sympathies from anyone else. Your protestations & your show trial are shams as is the idea of Pakistan being a civilised state. Forget Mr.Jinnah & what he might have thought of Pakistan as existing today; how can any decent human being countenance what happened in Mumbai. Normal human beings would have felt ashamed that fellow citizens had done that, your reactions of only hiding behind excuses give away the depths that you, as a nation & as a people have plumbed to.

If you expected Pakistanis to be beating their chests in anguish after hearing about the Mumbai Attacks then I can confidently say that you need to watch more news. We lose thousands a year, hundreds at a time but life goes on, have you ever mourned our dead? Have you even seen us mourn our dead? It's a part of our routine now, we have learnt to live in carnage, rather we thrive in it. We extended all possible help to GoI but without their full co-operation, there was only so much we could do.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It was a local insurgency supported by tribes from FATA, how is it in anyway related to the discussion at hand?

My friend, I repeat again, the question is about proxies. Using mercenaries and terrorist organizations, hired guns and murderers to forward national objectives.

Taking this on and on will amount to needling you, so I shall stop. But there was, in fact, a case prior to the Mukti Bahini, and it was Pakistan - the ISI - involved. Hint: a special forces officer, who retired as a brigadier, wrote about it in his memoirs, flaring to his experiences in East Pakistan.

 

[Icarus]

Muslims (more than pakistan) lived in India too. Nobody killed 1 million of them.

My Grandfather's family stayed back in Mumbai, their house was burnt down in 47 by our neighbours and they relocated, we were in contact with them until the 70s and last we heard from them, their house had been burnt down again in the 70s and they were relocating to Nagpur. We don't even know what happened to them.

 

[OrionHunter]

"At the Taj Mahal Hotel ballroom on February 20, 1918, at her 18th birthday party, Ruttie had accepted Jinnah's hand in marriage while the band was playing the Chopin tune 'So Deep is the Night'."

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...jmal-kasab-gang-wonders-sc.html#ixzz25DDySG3N

And now the band plays, "So deep is the wound"!

 

[Windjammer]

Lol nobody says J for Jinnah. Everybody chants J for Jihad nowadays.

Ya...Just like Gandhi Ghiri has ended up in some Ghandi Gali. !!

 

[Fuego]

My Grandfather's family stayed back in Mumbai, their house was burnt down in 47 by our neighbours and they relocated, we were in contact with them until the 70s and last we heard from them, their house had been burnt down again in the 70s and they were relocating to Nagpur. We don't even know what happened to them.

It is a sad and tragic incident but there is a way to look at it.
Your grandfather lived there for years and nothing happened to them. His house burnt (attacked) only after Jinnah started preaching that we are different people and we cant live together. It happened with many families irrespective of religion. At last, it was Jinnah who became the reason for burning of your Grandpa's house!

Ya...Just like Gandhi Ghiri has ended up in some Ghandi Gali. !!

Lol you must have spent a lot of time to come up with that!! he he he

 

[Joe Shearer]

A charge maintained by India but denied by Pakistan, if the PA was indeed a party to the conflict then why wasn't PA mobilized earlier when they could have held Srinagar if that had been the case? Our Commander-in-Chief refused the Quaid's order to mobilize troops causing further delay. Under such circumstances, common sense and logic compels me to accept that it is unlikely the Pathan tribes enjoyed support from PA.

There is enough evidence that the PA was NOT involved at the outset. In fact, I have read somewhere, probably in Tariq Ali, that either Major General Mohammed Akbar Khan (PA1) or his brother, Mohammed Iftikhar Khan, got wind of what was being planned and informed Gracey.

 

[Icarus]

It is a sad and tragic incident but there is a way to look at it.
Your grandfather lived there for years and nothing happened to them. His house burnt (attacked) only after Jinnah started preaching that we are different people and we cant live together. It happened with many families irrespective of religion. At last, it was Jinnah who became the reason for burning of your Grandpa's house!

That's because before WWII, Indians were largely united in the hope that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose will liberate India with the Azad Hind Fauj. The AHF and Netaji were both very acceptive of muslims that had otherwise become outcastes. Even as late as July 1946, Jinnah was prepared to support a united India through the Cabinet Mission Plan but the Congress had other plans. Partition is done and over with, now what's important is that we learn to live with it as good neighbours.

 

[Windjammer]

Lol you must have spent a lot of time to come up with that!! he he he

Not exactly, but then i guess one shouldn't expect Indian SC for some overdue introspection. !

 

[Icarus]

There is enough evidence that the PA was NOT involved at the outset. In fact, I have read somewhere, probably in Tariq Ali, that either Major General Mohammed Akbar Khan (PA1) or his brother, Mohammed Iftikhar Khan, got wind of what was being planned and informed Gracey.

48 wasn't even a proper war, many of the people had fought in the same regiments through the entire WWII and there were constant rendezvous between troops from both sides. I'm sure you know the story of the Sikh soldier that came to the Pakistani side to listen to a concert and was escorted back to his post after dinner by Pakistani troops with kheer.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The common man worships Jinnah, the common fundamentalist despises him. That's why I still hope that we can one day fulfil his vision of a tolerant and prosperous Pakistan.

Icarus, seriously taking on from your point there. I sincerely think that the key to forming Pakistan's future lies in seeking and providing the answer(s) to the question that I posed earlier;
What does Ajmal Karab (or the commonest man at the bottom of the heap) think about Jinnah?

While Jinnah sahab is a much venerated figure in Pakistan, sadly it seems to be rather symbolic.

1.Does Ajmal Kasab (and others like him) identify with Mr.Jinnah's vision for his nation?
2.Does Ajmal Kasab (and others like him) even able to understand Mr.Jinnah's vision for his nation?

I am afraid; over time even better souls than Ajmal Kasab have become "cloudy" about both those points. It is time indeed to re-visit the basics and spend some time, effort and energy to tackle that. Just my earnest and well-meaning submission.

 

[JonAsad]

The answer should be obvious-
but i am amzaed- who is relating who to ask what?-
Thats just pure non-sense-
Ask Pakistanis and majority will want kassab dead-
Asking Jinnah will not validate it though-

 

[Che Guevara]

Call me old fashioned or living in a dream world, but I refuse to believe the bold part

what refuse..26/11 was celebrated in pakistan...