What would have Jinnah thought of Ajmal Kasab and gang, wonders SC

[Fuego]

Actually, while this thread has some basis in the observations of Aftab Alam JJ et al.; some other thought comes to my mind:
What does Ajmal Kasab think of Jinnah?

That will be more relevant to the present times and the present state of Pakistan.

Amar Singh does not know about jinnah. He knows about jihad.

 

[karan21]

Jinnah was a good man. He wanted a peacefull Pakistan. His sould will cry everytime his nation is insulted in the world.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Indeed, most of these fundamentalist types reject Jinnah as a "kafir" and Pakistan as an "abomination". They harbour pan-Islamic ideals and see Pakistan as a splinter in their goals for a Pan-Islamic Union, seeing as Pakistan is a nation founded on the basis of Islamic Nationalism.

I am aware of that, Icarus. Therein lies the tragedy; that these people were then able to hijack the agenda and turn Pakistan into a country that negated Jinnah Sahab's vision. While Mr. Jinnah simply became a 'much venerated photograph hanging in a gilt-edged frame on walls throughout the country'.

Hence the relevance again of: What does Ajmal Kasab (or the commonest man at the bottom of the heap) think about Jinnah?

 

[Icarus]

Very ironic. Because those of us outside see Pakistan with the lowest degree of nationalism amongst most of the major Islamic countries.

You can never get the complete picture from the boundary. If Pakistan was not united by some ideological super glue (so to speak) it would have never been able to survive the last half decade. Terrorism, Military Ops, Inflation, Corruption, Crime, Target Killing, Insurgency, Natural Disasters, you name it, we faced it and we faced it as a nation.

It comes through strongly online here as well. Where you do not rally around the flag and instead all individually attack India and Indians.

I'm inclined to believe that Indians also take great joy in tormenting Pakistani members, it's a mutual hate indoctrinated through decades of withdrawal and stereotypes.

 

[notsuperstitious]

What did Jinnah think of Ilm Ud Din? He fought his case.

Such questions are purely academic, Jinnah's selective speeches is one thing and his actions another.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Amar Singh does not know about jinnah. He knows about jihad.

Ahhh. Two differing "J-words".

 

[Icarus]

I double checked what I wrote and I can confirm that I admitted that Kasab is Pakistani. So what's the point of trying to prove something I already accept?

 

[Bang Galore]

In case you missed the Ops in FATA, I can post links. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and hoot as gladiators lunge at each other's throats, it's completely different when you are one of them. You may see a thousand ways that we can improve our counter-terrorism capabilities but you need to think about only an isolated area whereas we have to think about the entire 796096 sq km with the same number of troops.

That's kind of silly. You are responsible for what happens in your territory. If you argue that you are not, you cede the right to be called a proper state. Arguing that you are going after a few selected parties does not change that perception. The Pakistani state has done nothing to satisfy India on the Mumbai issue. Your territory was used, regardless of the argument of collusion or incompetence, you should take some responsibility. Yet, you have hid yourselves right from the very beginning behind a wall of excuses. You have done no investigation whatsoever on who the plotters were, how the plot was hatched, who the other nine terrorists were....nothing! You & Asim Aquil use the same argument that India has nor provided evidence. India was the target, Pakistan was the place where the plot was hatched & organised. Who should dig up the evidence? India?

Who on earth in India will then believe your protestations as genuine? The Americans gave their own independent evidence with David Headley, yet you choose to ignore that & let Hafiz Saeed dance around, just because you get a thrill at poking a finger in India's eye. When it comes back to bite you, don't expect any sympathies from anyone else. Your protestations & your show trial are shams as is the idea of Pakistan being a civilised state. Forget Mr.Jinnah & what he might have thought of Pakistan as existing today; how can any decent human being countenance what happened in Mumbai. Normal human beings would have felt ashamed that fellow citizens had done that, your reactions of only hiding behind excuses give away the depths that you, as a nation & as a people have plumbed to.

 

[Icarus]

Jinnah is responsible for about 1 million death during partition, why he would be worried about someone who just killed 166 in mumbai. He would have just said that "yeh to hona hi tha because mejority is oppressing minority!"

If it had not been for the partition, millions more would have died in the civil war that ensued. And there's no way you can put the blame squarely on Jinnah. Nehru and Patel are equally if not more to blame.

 

[Fuego]

Ahhh. Two differing "J-words".

Lol nobody says J for Jinnah. Everybody chants J for Jihad nowadays.

 

[Icarus]

I am aware of that, Icarus. Therein lies the tragedy; that these people were then able to hijack the agenda and turn Pakistan into a country that negated Jinnah Sahab's vision. While Mr. Jinnah simply became a 'much venerated photograph hanging in a gilt-edged frame on walls throughout the country'.

Hence the relevance again of: What does Ajmal Kasab (or the commonest man at the bottom of the heap) think about Jinnah?

The common man worships Jinnah, the common fundamentalist despises him. That's why I still hope that we can one day fulfil his vision of a tolerant and prosperous Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It was a local insurgency supported by tribes from FATA, how is it in anyway related to the discussion at hand?

With overt and covert support by PA and a tacit approval from none other than Jinnah.

It was not a local insurgency. There were no locals, other than elements from Poonch and the Mirpur belt; the operative elements were the tribals, largely demobbed soldiers from the Indian Army, the Gilgit Scouts and the State Forces of the Mehtar of Chitral.

The PA was extremely correct; Gracey got advance notice of what was being planned from one of his officers, who was being groomed to be the next C-in-C. Jinnah himself stayed scrupulously clear, and stipulated that he should not be told anything.

 

[vsdoc]

If it had not been for the partition, millions more would have died in the civil war that ensued. And there's no way you can put the blame squarely on Jinnah. Nehru and Patel are equally if not more to blame.

Sorry man, I respect you, but that is such BS.

Capital B.

Capital S.

So after the million were butchered, the Hindus and Muslims left in India decided to say "time" automatically because that was enough blood for this session?

P.S. I am not fighting you on Nehru or Patel.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

If it had not been for the partition, millions more would have died in the civil war that ensued. And there's no way you can put the blame squarely on Jinnah. Nehru and Patel are equally if not more to blame.

I agree with you. The way things were then, partition was then a fait accompli, never mind that it suited various agendas to let it happen. In 20/20 hind-sight, one can say that its better that it happened also.

But that is "done and dusted" now. So its time to move on.

 

[Ticker]

That's good to hear, really good to hear. It's just that the numbers seem to be frightfully small on one side, frightfully large on the other. You know which side every Indian liberal is backing, I'm sure.

I think you are far far overestimating the strength of small numbers with receding vociferousness and an overwhelmingly large majority recovering their vociferousness.