what went wrong with LCA, ARJUN and AKASH ?

[footmarks]

I am not getting into the quality issue here. If you have never been to China's massive industrial compound you won't understand it.

On composite, first of all this is not some super cutting edge technology. Composite has been used for decades. However, the issue remains in its reliability. Not even the U.S can consistently make reliable composite.

Just using that much material doesn't make the LCA the best in the world. The truth is that the LCA is grossly overweight despite using so much compsite. In addition, the machines that make the composites are imported from France. I don't think India understands how composite materials work yet. This is one of the core reasons why the LCA is far from ready. The use of composite material is an overdose that hurts the LCA more than it helps.

I agree composites are not a new tech. , nor they are anything to be called as cutting edge. But using C-composites in high tech systems is a relatively new development and no country has achieved a complete mastery over it. C-composites are highly promising tech with potential ranging from hi-tech machinery like F-1 cars, aircrafts, spacecrafts to even modular fittings in household and making sunglasses. As with every new tech in developing phase, every country, be it US, China or India, is at the same place. everybody is trying to get hold of the tech. no one is superior here. Just because even US has not used it so extensively in their aircrafts does not mean that it cant be used successfully by India. Hope you get the point.

 

[desimorty]

“over-optimism” and poor planning.

Tell that to the army and air force that handed developers the staff requirments.

This is one of the core reasons why the LCA is far from ready. The use of composite material is an overdose that hurts the LCA more than it helps.

Thats far from the Truth.
THe compisote part was easy. Designing a air frame with compisotes hard. To make compisotes inhouse, NAL purchased Italian machinary and training. For the first few prototypes HAL sent wing designs to italy for the wings to be produced there.
Finding faults in compisotes is easier than metal. Pending on how you look at it. The Eurofigher for instance just like the Tejas have a built in device that tells them where the stress to compisotes is and how much during the the sortie. Making it easier to pinpoint the problem. You can find the video online.
The problem with the LCA project was, FBW, and the weight and payload. Now the LCA needs to be lighter than the Gripen and carry the same payload! But aside for this, its the clearing phase.
The engine is a different project altogether.


The Arjun? One might ask the question, why altogether. Its easier for India to build the T-90 inhouse or variants. In fact the T-90 allows India to upgrade the T-72. India has built T-72 inhouse before so why not carry this design forward and build something like the Type 99 or Alkhalid? while at the same time paying royalties to Russia?
I honestly dont have a good answer to the above. We do know that the Arjun project was conceptionalized when Pak was testing the M1A1. They never purchased it.
DRDO with the help of the Leopard 2 designer built its cousin or an exact replica, pending on how you look at it. Arjun even has the same flaws as the Leopard 2!
The biggest problem with the Arjun, being quality control. India had never built such a heavy MBT that required this kind of wielding let alone let alone the technology from the electronics inside that feed the driver information regarding the condition of the tank and engine and the stablized tracks and turret.

 

[Trisonics]

One comment I have on the LCA: Using 45% composite material is a daring and a risky decision. Given India's lack of industrial infrastructure, it has to rely on imported materials, thus quality control is a huge issue. Also, defects in conventional material is easily spotted. This is not the case with composite. Cracks in composite materials are very hard to spot visually. This much composite material exponentially increases the maintenance cost. The United States only started using large quantity of composite in the latest F-35. Though I have no percentage, I don't think it is 45%.

Can you back you statements why Indian Industrial Infrastructure or research is not adequate. I can disprove you in a minute but I'm willing to listen to your opinion. Again since we were talking composite material, I would appreciate links, papers anything verifiable that backs your claim on India's lack of industrial infrastructure.

Can you list the imported materials and why quality control is an issue? again wrt to composites?

"defects in conventional material is easily spotted."
I don't know why I even care to reply to your foolish statement, but please do research on this, if you want to make it a little more interesting, and wish to stay on the topic of airplanes, the British comet might be a good case study!!! Come back to me and then tell me how you can identify defects with a naked eye

"This much composite material exponentially increases the maintenance cost."
Again why????? elucidate

"One comment I have on the LCA: Using 45% composite material is a daring and a risky decision."

I need an explanation on this as well..for starters again, you may take the a380 as an example that has more than 20% composites...also, list the parts on this plane that are composites..come back to LCA and do the same and then come back here and explain more!!!!

 

[RPK]

Composites in the LCA

 

[Trisonics]

Also, how long did India take going from here

to here:

This would tell anyone with even the slightest of aircraft design knowledge that the LCA engineers need to be credited at the highest level!!! India can proudly claim it has come a long way in design, development and prototypes when it comes to fighter planes. I have nothing to say to people who think this experiencing is futile!!!

Although Kaveri may not have seen such success, with collaboration we can easily jump ahead since we did all the hard work learning the basics..Be proud fellas!!!!!

 

[lockh33d]

Also, how long did India take going from here

to here:

This would tell anyone with even the slightest of aircraft design knowledge that the LCA engineers need to be credited at the highest level!!! India can proudly claim it has come a long way in design, development and prototypes when it comes to fighter planes. I have nothing to say to people who think this experiencing is futile!!!

Although Kaveri may not have seen such success, with collaboration we can easily jump ahead since we did all the hard work learning the basics..Be proud fellas!!!!!

What happened after picture 3? Did the jet explode or do a belly flop?

 

[Trisonics]

What happened after picture 3? Did the jet explode or do a belly flop?

nothing much..got you agitated since I was replying to a Chinese

 

[jha]

nothing much..got you agitated since I was replying to a Chinese

keep the thread clean...ignore the trollers....

 

[oceanx]

There's no one accountable for the progress? In any country, head will roll when projects are delayed with specific timeframe

In which case, no one would want to assume any responsibilities and no progress will be made. The old soviet practice of compelling rocket scientists to huddle around immature rockets to make the thing blast off by a certain date only killed both the rocket and the scientists (can't give you sources off hand).

What people need are a balance between accountability and "magnanimity" in the face of failure.

And realistic expectations. The PRC men's soccer team is a case in point - even the best buckle under too much pressure and too high expectations.

At least the Indians do talk about their failures (I know, I know, they also have the penchant to broadcast their "future" successes in greater decibels).

 

[Kinshuk]

brother i am not proud on the success of india because india has more and more efficient to make all weapons which makes by the western country. i am concern only about if we are failure.
becoz 'nepolian bonapart' said:- if you are not success in any work means you didn't done work in right way.

If not correct english then at least try to make your post worth a read. You cannot have success all the time. and India is in very starting phase, it takes time to master things and remove Muda (waste) from any kind of process. Learn Six Sigma Lean principles first. Companies take 20 20 years to reach that level. And you should be thankful that our govt is at least bothered to provide funds for R& D.. Ya agreed with one point there's a little self boasting issue with DRDO but that's not important as in the end it motivates them then it's a good thing.

And ya an advise, Read Six Sigma, Lean principle before coming to such dumb conclusion. You are just enjoying the free media. That's all.

 

[conworldus]

You need to take material science 101.

On India's industry, your government has more than enough information for you to see why.

Can you back you statements why Indian Industrial Infrastructure or research is not adequate. I can disprove you in a minute but I'm willing to listen to your opinion. Again since we were talking composite material, I would appreciate links, papers anything verifiable that backs your claim on India's lack of industrial infrastructure.

Can you list the imported materials and why quality control is an issue? again wrt to composites?

"defects in conventional material is easily spotted."
I don't know why I even care to reply to your foolish statement, but please do research on this, if you want to make it a little more interesting, and wish to stay on the topic of airplanes, the British comet might be a good case study!!! Come back to me and then tell me how you can identify defects with a naked eye

"This much composite material exponentially increases the maintenance cost."
Again why????? elucidate

"One comment I have on the LCA: Using 45% composite material is a daring and a risky decision."

I need an explanation on this as well..for starters again, you may take the a380 as an example that has more than 20% composites...also, list the parts on this plane that are composites..come back to LCA and do the same and then come back here and explain more!!!!

 

[garibnawaz]

What went wrong with AKASH?

Nothing.

Akash to secure our skies

26 Jan 2010, 1720 hrs IST
After a decade and more of strenghtening the country's defences, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has accepted the Akash missile as part of its arsenal to counter Chinese air threat in the North East region.

The Akash missile system will help protect strategic targets in the North East, whether they are airfields, important bridges on the Brahmaputra, Railway Junctions, Power projects cities in the region like Guwahati.

The Air Force has already cleared the project and the defence acquisition council chaired by defence minister A K Antony is expected to clear it on the 28th of January after which four squadrons of Akash will be ordered to add to the two squadrons ordered on a trial basis earlier.

Some of the strategic installations in the North East region that the Akash missile system will help protect from Chinese threat:

- First is the Tezpur airfield where the Sukhoi 30 Aircrafts are stationed.

- The Chabua airfield is another important installation.

- Jorhat airfield and Mohanbari airfield will also be protected from enemy fire.

- Air fields apart other installations like BARC and other power plants will be protected

- A number of cities in the North East region.

Akash's specifications:

Operational range : 25-30 km
Length: 5.78 metres
Flight ceiling: 18,000 meters
Speed: 2.8 to 3.5 Mach
Launch weight: 720 kg

Akash to secure our skies- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

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