What twin engine Jet Fighter Suits PAF Doctrine?

[Maj.Osmani]

Hi,

In war---most of the time a 20 lb sledge hammer approach is better than the finesse of a 5 lb hammer.

And if you get the opportunity---you would rather sneak in 10000 kg of weapons than 4000 kg of weapons---the muliplier effect of the destruction caused by one heavy load is many times more than that cause by a 4000kg load---.

Sir i didn't get your point what exaclty you want to say.

 

[war&peace]

Sir i didn't get your point what exaclty you want to say.

Basically he wants to say that a heavy fighter can carry a bigger payload and even in a conventional war, you are not aiming just for precision strikes especially for large targets in the enemy territory. PAF used C130s to do bombing in India in 1965 war in the night time. You want to wreak havoc into enemies lines through use of brute force. You are not always concerned which target got hit as long as most of them get hit....for example a formation of tanks or fighterjets.

 

[Maj.Osmani]

Basically he wants to say that a heavy fighter can carry a bigger payload and even in a conventional war, you are not aiming just for precision strikes especially for large targets in the enemy territory. PAF used C130s to do bombing in India in 1965 war in the night time. You want to wreak havoc into enemies lines through use of brute force. You are not always concerned which target got hit as long as most of them get hit....for example a formation of tanks or fighterjets.

Then i must say brother to you and Sahib i replied what optiones we (PAF) have, Please let me know.

 

[war&peace]

Then i must say brother to you and Sahib i replied what optiones we (PAF) have, Please let me know.

JH7B can carry a truck load of weapons and China should have no problem at all. A few Su-35s should not be a problem since Russia is willing to sell to Pakistan (it is just some of us assume idiotic things and narrow our options). The problem is with PAF, they have somehow developed a mindset or aversion twin-engine fighterjets. In my opinion PAF is incapable to deciding on it own...they need a decision from up and above.

 

[Maj.Osmani]

JH7B can carry a truck load of weapons and China should have no problem at all. A few Su-35s should not be a problem since Russia is willing to sell to Pakistan (it is just some of us assume idiotic things and narrow our options). The problem is with PAF, they have somehow developed a mindset or aversion twin-engine fighterjets. In my opinion PAF is incapable to deciding on it own...they need a decision from up and above.

Sir J-11 is copy of Russian jet and Chinese sorry to say fails to developed locally reliable engine and current status is unclear and for sure they are not allowed to export it without Russian approval.

Kindly read this
Modern J-11[edit]
The J-11 was finally born in 1995 as a Chinese version of the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27SK air superiority fighter after China secured a $2.5 billion production agreement which licensed China to build 200 Su-27SK aircraft using Russian-supplied kits. Under the terms of the agreement, these aircraft would be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. However, in 2004, Russian media reported that Shenyang co-production of the basic J-11 was halted after around 100 examples were built. The PLAAF later revealed a mock-up of an upgraded multi-role version of the J-11 in mid-2002. The indigenous J-11B variant incorporates various Chinese material modifications and upgrades to the airframe with improved manufacturing methods in addition to the inclusion of domestic Chinese technologies such as radar, avionics suites and weaponry,[4][5][6][7] including anti-ship and PL-12 air-to-air missiles presumably for the role of a maritime strike aircraft. The alleged reason for the sudden stop in the production line of the J-11 was because it could no longer satisfy the PLAAF's requirements,[4] due to elements such as the obsolete avionics and radar, which were structured for aerial missions.[8]

The J-11/J-11B's legitimacy remains unproven, despite a wealth of information coming to light since 2007. In the course of a press conference at the 2009 Farnborough Airshow, Alexander Fomin, Deputy Director of Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Co-operation, reported that Russia had not so far tabled any questions to China with regard to "copying" military equipment. Fomin reported that Russia handed China the licences to manufacture the aircraft and its components, including an agreement on the production of intellectual property rights. Details of intellectual property rights, however have not been disclosed, fuelling speculation about a "secret" contract or parts of the original contract. The licence, at least officially, did not include an aircraft carrier version- Sukhoi Su-33 nor any variant of it, such as the Shenyang J-15.[9] At the MAKS 2009, Rosoboronexport's General Manager Anatoli Isaykin was quoted saying: "Russia is going to investigate the J-11B, as a Chinese copy of the Su-27 and Sukhoi Company is partaking in the process."[10] In 2010, Rosoboronexport announced via their official website that it was in talks with the Chinese side, regarding the ongoing production of weapons that Russia considers as un-licensed. In light of the ongoing investigations, Rosoboronexport expressed its concern over future sales of advanced Russian systems and components to China.[11][12]

 

[war&peace]

Sir J-11 is copy of Russian jet and Chinese sorry to say fails to developed locally reliable engine and current status is unclear and for sure they are not allowed to export it without Russian approval.

Kindly read this
Modern J-11[edit]
The J-11 was finally born in 1995 as a Chinese version of the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27SK air superiority fighter after China secured a $2.5 billion production agreement which licensed China to build 200 Su-27SK aircraft using Russian-supplied kits. Under the terms of the agreement, these aircraft would be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. However, in 2004, Russian media reported that Shenyang co-production of the basic J-11 was halted after around 100 examples were built. The PLAAF later revealed a mock-up of an upgraded multi-role version of the J-11 in mid-2002. The indigenous J-11B variant incorporates various Chinese material modifications and upgrades to the airframe with improved manufacturing methods in addition to the inclusion of domestic Chinese technologies such as radar, avionics suites and weaponry,[4][5][6][7] including anti-ship and PL-12 air-to-air missiles presumably for the role of a maritime strike aircraft. The alleged reason for the sudden stop in the production line of the J-11 was because it could no longer satisfy the PLAAF's requirements,[4] due to elements such as the obsolete avionics and radar, which were structured for aerial missions.[8]

The J-11/J-11B's legitimacy remains unproven, despite a wealth of information coming to light since 2007. In the course of a press conference at the 2009 Farnborough Airshow, Alexander Fomin, Deputy Director of Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Co-operation, reported that Russia had not so far tabled any questions to China with regard to "copying" military equipment. Fomin reported that Russia handed China the licences to manufacture the aircraft and its components, including an agreement on the production of intellectual property rights. Details of intellectual property rights, however have not been disclosed, fuelling speculation about a "secret" contract or parts of the original contract. The licence, at least officially, did not include an aircraft carrier version- Sukhoi Su-33 nor any variant of it, such as the Shenyang J-15.[9] At the MAKS 2009, Rosoboronexport's General Manager Anatoli Isaykin was quoted saying: "Russia is going to investigate the J-11B, as a Chinese copy of the Su-27 and Sukhoi Company is partaking in the process."[10] In 2010, Rosoboronexport announced via their official website that it was in talks with the Chinese side, regarding the ongoing production of weapons that Russia considers as un-licensed. In light of the ongoing investigations, Rosoboronexport expressed its concern over future sales of advanced Russian systems and components to China.[11][12]

I think, I did not even mention the name of J-11, please read my comment have only JH-7B from China and SU-35 from Russia and kindly, before responding make sure you have understood my comment and read it.

 

[Maj.Osmani]

I think, I did not even mention the name of J-11, please read my comment have only JH-7B from China and SU-35 from Russia and kindly, before responding make sure you have understood my comment and read it.

Sir read my post i said J-11b a copy of Russian jet.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir read my post i said J-11b a copy of Russian jet.

Hi,

The J11 maybe a copy of the russian jet---but as long as the engine is chinese---china has no problems selling it----either the J11---or the J16's and they both are flying with chinese engine now.


The first and least expensive is JH7B with an aesa radar---the next step up is the J16---the next step up is the SU34----.

The first two are the easiest to integrate---because we have all the weapons for these aircraft---. The russians---we will have to buy them all---because the russians would want to sell the weapons as well.

The heavy strike aircraft with long legs---gives so many options for directions to the target---specially over the sea targets.

An aircraft like the JH7B flying with 2 CM400AKG's 2 aircraft on strike mission with 1 JH7B in a Growler configuration and loaded with 4-6 BVR missiles as an escort----circling at 350-400 miles out into the sea---would be very interesting.

 

[Mugwop]

j-31
look at it's size! Which is perfect for PAF.

 

[Maj.Osmani]

Hi,

The J11 maybe a copy of the russian jet---but as long as the engine is chinese---china has no problems selling it----either the J11---or the J16's and they both are flying with chinese engine now.


The first and least expensive is JH7B with an aesa radar---the next step up is the J16---the next step up is the SU34----.

The first two are the easiest to integrate---because we have all the weapons for these aircraft---. The russians---we will have to buy them all---because the russians would want to sell the weapons as well.

The heavy strike aircraft with long legs---gives so many options for directions to the target---specially over the sea targets.

An aircraft like the JH7B flying with 2 CM400AKG's 2 aircraft on strike mission with 1 JH7B in a Growler configuration and loaded with 4-6 BVR missiles as an escort----circling at 350-400 miles out into the sea---would be very interesting.

Dear Sir Chinese engine's service life is only 30 flying hours with lots of other issues so they have to use Russian engines.

 

[MastanKhan]

Dear Sir Chinese engine's service life is only 30 flying hours with lots of other issues so they have to use Russian engines.

Hi,

You missed a zero---the 300 hrs life was for ancient engines---the new W series engines are right there with the russian engines for longevity.

The J11's and J10's and J16's are flying with chinese engines as well. The reason for russian engines is that china ordered a lots of them and they will use them till they run out of them.

 

[Maj.Osmani]

Hi,

You missed a zero---the 300 hrs life was for ancient engines---the new W series engines are right there with the russian engines for longevity.

The J11's and J10's and J16's are flying with chinese engines as well. The reason for russian engines is that china ordered a lots of them and they will use them till they run out of them.

Serial manufacturing of the WS-10 and integration with the J-11, proved to be more difficult than expected. As a result, even though several related prototypes had been tested and at least one regiment converted to the Taihang powered J-11B version in 2007, these aircraft were later grounded for an extended period due to a poor operational reliability. A report in the Washington Times suggested that the Chinese engines lasted 30 hours before they needed servicing, compared to 400 hours for the Russian versions.[15]

Sir you added aditional 0.

JF-17 Block II supposed to fly with Chinese indigenous engine but still using Russian engines...any specific reason?

 

[HAIDER]

Forget Chinese twin engine for now. They are all using Russian AL31 engine. Pakistan won t get any top generation Chinese craft due to Russian third party sanctions for this particular engine.

Serial manufacturing of the WS-10 and integration with the J-11, proved to be more difficult than expected. As a result, even though several related prototypes had been tested and at least one regiment converted to the Taihang powered J-11B version in 2007, these aircraft were later grounded for an extended period due to a poor operational reliability. A report in the Washington Times suggested that the Chinese engines lasted 30 hours before they needed servicing, compared to 400 hours for the Russian versions.[15]

Sir you added aditional 0.

JF-17 Block II supposed to fly with Chinese indigenous engine but still using Russian engines...any specific reason?

Chinese unable to built a stable engine for these platform. Its reality and we need to accept it.

 

[MastanKhan]

Serial manufacturing of the WS-10 and integration with the J-11, proved to be more difficult than expected. As a result, even though several related prototypes had been tested and at least one regiment converted to the Taihang powered J-11B version in 2007, these aircraft were later grounded for an extended period due to a poor operational reliability. A report in the Washington Times suggested that the Chinese engines lasted 30 hours before they needed servicing, compared to 400 hours for the Russian versions.[15]

Sir you added aditional 0.

JF-17 Block II supposed to fly with Chinese indigenous engine but still using Russian engines...any specific reason?

Hi,

Because Paf has already integrated this engine----and the russians are fiercely competing for the paf to keep on using this engine---they will modify this engine to meet and exceed paf's requirements.---the engine has shown predictable reliability--so there is no reason for the Paf to switch just like that---but then I maybe proved wrong when the BLK3 comes into production.

+ paf secured enough RD93's just to be on the safe side that it has to use them for awhile.

And about the chinese engine and 30 hrs service---that was around 10 years ago and the issue rectified.

All 3 primary chinese aircraft the J11, The J16 & the J10's are flying with the Ws10A----. There is one in development or in production for the J20 as well.

 

[!eon]

Currently we didn’t need twin engine jet. F-16 and Jf-17 are enough to protect our air, land and sea boundaries, till 5th Gen Jet fighters available

There's nothing like defensive force. It's just a sugarcoated delusional word, used to convince general public.
Unfortunately PAF has made this a motto.
Imagine if war starts tomorrow, where PAF would stand in front of opponent with F-16s and JF-17s?
If one says, war can't start. That's no more than an illusion. It can be on big or small scale like Kargil. Now, rethink role of PAF in kargil.