What the goals of the establishment should be next

[truthseeker2010]

At this point it's no secret that the establishment is deeply involved with politics.

The concept of a deep-state or an establishment is not unique to Pakistan but is witnessed around the world. It's nothing new.

That being said - what should be their next goals?

Here is what I think:

- Restore political stability

- Restore trust in the armed forces

- Reforms in all government institutions that prioritise meritocracy

- Reforms for consequences against nepotism & corruption.

- Education reforms - especially regarding the Pakistani national identity. Emphasis on indegenous civilisations and culture - stop promoting the "ummah chummah" narrative. This makes people weak minded and simp over foreigners, some of whom are extremely hostile neighbours!

- Focus on the western & internal security threats, as they are more serious than any India right now.

This is the only way Pakistan can survive in the long-term, otherwise it will self-destruct.

The best way to build political stability is to understand what the population wants. They are tired of the same repetitive faces known for corruption, lawlessness and zero results. You only increase the instability and low morale in the nation by bringing people like this back, who have no value.

Onto Imran Khan, he has many faults and was incredibly naive, idealistic and pacifist. Many of the policies he seeked were also serious security risks, like opposing the construction of the western border fencing, etc. He also made a quite a few stupid comments maligning Pakistan's reputation and his own, not realising he is the leader of a nation and geopolitics is all about interest.

But one thing undeniable about him is that he has massive popularity and support nationwide across people of all ethnicities! This is something that shouldn't be overlooked but rather used to your advantage. He can peddle narratives that were otherwise difficult to peddle due to the massive trust he has. Even though he is quite naive, he does love his country and has good intentions.

So you should work with him, give him redlines on things which jeopardise national security and cannot be implemented, and give media training on what naive things not to say. His goal is the same as yours - you're both working for Pakistan. More communication by genuinely explaining things could go far. This could solve most of the current problems.

And to not forget the below - internal security risks are always more serious than anything external. They are the most damaging.

View attachment 907826

Avoiding default will be the first indication that these 12th graders are serious and there is some sincerity for country is left in them. Otherwise no surprises.....

 

[TheSolution]

They didn't let institutes grow so that they can control it. It is not incompetence but the only COMPETENCE they have as they are successful.
You should know ISI quality. Stopping monopoly by creating factions/divisions even if they have to support criminals. See the MQM example. Among TTP by favouring some and labelling them Lashkars. Creating forward block or new parties like PPPP from PPP or PMLQ from PMLN.

All is done to have control over Pakistan. Why do they control EC or why they didn't allow EVMs etc.

Sure no viewership, but if he has money, then he has influence. Like Malik Riaz. Known but has no public following. If he has the money, imagine such a person favouring PTI or some group that the army doesn't like.

Maybe, so what's their end goal after having control over Pakistan exactly?

Run it into the ground, crash the economy, experience multiple bomb blasts per day in the capital?

There needs to be common ground otherwise this isn't going to last, the suggestions given are imperative if Pakistan is to survive but also keep up with the rest of the world.

 

[Horse_Rider]

that are given clean chit and NRO by the Establishment? no ? and all Khakki Chaddis in GHQ are saint ?


@Horse_Rider Were Jiernails wearing diaper that they didn't know Shamsi was leased to CIA for drone attack in Pakistan?

The ONLY NRO being discussed is the one IK is begging for. There is a reason why he's so silent. You can still watch his useless bullshit on TV. After taking $ 45 billion in loans and putting them through ghost projects and putting our economy through toilet, he think he is "relevant".

Avoiding default will be the first indication that these 12th graders are serious and there is some sincerity for country is left in them. Otherwise no surprises.....

Which default? Pakistan isn't going near a default. There is ONE default that happens twice a day in Zaman park Lahore in front of the media. That default is done by a corrupt chor. No one really cares about him. He should be VERY scared because time is coming to give accountability to where the $ 45 billions in loans went. That's why he was doing all this crazy sh*it show. IK's life's about to go side ways. The corruption accountability is coming.

 

[salarsikander]

B

he ONLY NRO being discussed is the one IK is begging for.

Lol, how conveniently did you dodge the question? NRO was given first to Nawa and Zardari and then again, so why did they Army bring back to Dar the absconder on PAK ONE plane, is he all clean now?
and why did diaper jernial leased the airbase to CIA, were they protecting national intertest or self interest after retirement ?

 

[Goenitz]

Maybe, so what's their end goal after having control over Pakistan exactly?

Run it into the ground, crash the economy, experience multiple bomb blasts per day in the capital?

Control is everything. Everyone wants it.
Rests are the tools and opportunities.

 

[salarsikander]

The corruption accountability is coming.

lol those who allow corruption go free in Army and bring back same corrupt losers will open accountability cases,

 

[teX]

At this point it's no secret that the establishment is deeply involved with politics.

The concept of a deep-state or an establishment is not unique to Pakistan but is witnessed around the world. It's nothing new.

That being said - what should be their next goals?

Here is what I think:

- Restore political stability

- Restore trust in the armed forces

- Reforms in all government institutions that prioritise meritocracy

- Reforms for consequences against nepotism & corruption.

- Education reforms - especially regarding the Pakistani national identity. Emphasis on indegenous civilisations and culture - stop promoting the "ummah chummah" narrative. This makes people weak minded and simp over foreigners, some of whom are extremely hostile neighbours!

- Focus on the western & internal security threats, as they are more serious than any India right now.

This is the only way Pakistan can survive in the long-term, otherwise it will self-destruct.

The best way to build political stability is to understand what the population wants. They are tired of the same repetitive faces known for corruption, lawlessness and zero results. You only increase the instability and low morale in the nation by bringing people like this back, who have no value.

Onto Imran Khan, he has many faults and was incredibly naive, idealistic and pacifist. Many of the policies he seeked were also serious security risks, like opposing the construction of the western border fencing, etc. He also made a quite a few stupid comments maligning Pakistan's reputation and his own, not realising he is the leader of a nation and geopolitics is all about interest.

But one thing undeniable about him is that he has massive popularity and support nationwide across people of all ethnicities! This is something that shouldn't be overlooked but rather used to your advantage. He can peddle narratives that were otherwise difficult to peddle due to the massive trust he has. Even though he is quite naive, he does love his country and has good intentions.

So you should work with him, give him redlines on things which jeopardise national security and cannot be implemented, and give media training on what naive things not to say. His goal is the same as yours - you're both working for Pakistan. More communication by genuinely explaining things could go far. This could solve most of the current problems.

And to not forget the below - internal security risks are always more serious than anything external. They are the most damaging.

View attachment 907826

Establishment (or decision makers of est. aka Army top brass aka Army Generals) are liers to the core, that we have seen in over the last year, the top guy made IK fool at every turn.
So they will protect the country as long as they are increasing thr wealth, using the poor fighting force (brig/col and lower ranks) for thr wealth creating... so they (mostly) can't be trusted with the "goals".

should one expect his protection from a/the lier(s)?

 

[FuturePAF]

Hasn't all this been tried out for 3.5 years already? That did not work obviously, so why and how would it work again?

But did we really? At least the next go around the pretenses can be dropped, and anyone that signs up for the job knows more fully what they are getting themselves into, and more importantly, how much authority they really have or don’t have to be more precise.

 

[VCheng]

But did we really? At least the next go around the pretenses can be dropped, and anyone that signs up for the job knows more fully what they are getting themselves into, and more importantly, how much authority they really have it don’t have to be more precise.

LOL. Everybody given this particular job knows what the real score is. Every one. And that is not about to change either.

 

[Ssan]

So you should work with him, give him redlines on things which jeopardise national security and cannot be implemented, and give media training on what naive things not to say. His goal is the same as yours - you're both working for Pakistan. More communication by genuinely explaining things could go far. This could solve most of the current problems.

Bro I used to think this way. Not anymore. The establishment does not work for Pakistan. Killing Arshad Sharif is not working for Pakistan. NRO 2.0 is not for Pakistan. PDM govt is not for Pakistan.

I think we need to call a spade a spade at this point. There is something institutionally screwed up here. Else I don’t understand why Hafiz Sahab is acting the same as Haji Sahab. He could have easily buried the hatchet and was given all opportunity to do so.

At the same time, Pakistan need a strong army because of our environment. The establishment needs to be dismantled though. And the army needs reforms.

 

[TheSolution]

Bro I used to think this way. Not anymore. The establishment does not work for Pakistan. Killing Arshad Sharif is not working for Pakistan. NRO 2.0 is not for Pakistan. PDM govt is not for Pakistan.

I think we need to call a spade a spade at this point. There is something institutionally screwed up here. Else I don’t understand why Hafiz Sahab is acting the same as Haji Sahab. He could have easily buried the hatchet and was given all opportunity to do so.

At the same time, Pakistan need a strong army because of our environment. The establishment needs to be dismantled though. And the army needs reforms.

I don't think establishment is against Pakistan, just incompetent due to a boomer mentality and doesn't care about controlling public narrative enough which allows far-fetched conspiracy theories to flourish. (If establishment was truly an American-outpost you wouldn't have nukes right now or be this close to China)

They were engaged in corruption they didn't want to be known publicly which would ruin their reputation especially in this current political instability, and Arshad Sharif was building an evidence trail against them so they killed him is my assumption.

I just want the establishment to show some competency in managing different aspects of the country more effectively (mentioned above), which is imperative to it's survival and keeping up with the environment. Otherwise we'll be left in the dirt.

On IK, I think he was removed due to his naivety, pacifism and security policies he wanted. But with a bit more media training and explaining to him why his mindset is wrong, I think he's a better asset than all the other options.

 

[Ssan]

I don't think establishment is against Pakistan, just incompetent due to a boomer mentality and doesn't care about controlling public narrative enough which allows far-fetched conspiracy theories to flourish. (If establishment was truly an American-outpost you wouldn't have nukes right now or be this close to China)

They were engaged in corruption they didn't want to be known publicly which would ruin their reputation especially in this current political instability, and Arshad Sharif was building an evidence trail against them so they killed him is my assumption.

I just want the establishment to show some competency in managing different aspects of the country more effectively (mentioned above), which is imperative to it's survival and keeping up with the environment. Otherwise we'll be left in the dirt.

On IK, I think he was removed due to his naivety, pacifism and security policies he wanted. But with a bit more media training and explaining to him why his mindset is wrong, I think he's a better asset than all the other options.

That’s exactly it. Trying to stifle the media is one thing. Following a journalist to Kenya and shooting him like a dog is another.

While we are at it, who the hell is for Pakistan and also does corruption against its interest? And then tries to cover it up with extrajudicial assassination?

Also this mentality is kind of messed up. Who the hell gave the establishment to make decisions for the Pakistani awaam? Was it Jinnah? Was it Liaquat Ali (while we are at it, can the establishment clarify if they assassinated him too?)

IK may have a thousand faults. He is light years better than the establishment. The last 8 months have borne that out.

 

[TheSolution]

That’s exactly it. Trying to stifle the media is one thing. Following a journalist to Kenya and shooting him like a dog is another.

While we are at it, who the hell is for Pakistan and also does corruption against its interest? And then tries to cover it up with extrajudicial assassination?

Also this mentality is kind of messed up. Who the hell gave the establishment to make decisions for the Pakistani awaam? Was it Jinnah? Was it Liaquat Ali (while we are at it, can the establishment clarify if they assassinated him too?)

IK may have a thousand faults. He is light years better than the establishment. The last 8 months have borne that out.

Every country has an establishment, its nothing unique to Pakistan, and forms naturally.

And I definitely wouldn't say IK is light years better than the establishment, he's just good at giving speeches but naive in reality, he doesn't understand geopolitics is a hostile tough environment. But I would say he's better than other political parties by miles just needs to be less idealistic and more realistic.

If it was up to him insurgency in this country would only get worse and worse, and national security would be completely compromised.

 

[Ssan]

Every country has an establishment, its nothing unique to Pakistan, and forms naturally.

And I definitely wouldn't say IK is light years better than the establishment, he's just good at giving speeches but naive in reality, he doesn't understand geopolitics is a hostile tough environment. But I would say he's better than other political parties by miles just needs to be less idealistic and more realistic.

If it was up to him insurgency in this country would only get worse and worse, and national security would be completely compromised.

I am not against a deep state. You can look at all my previous posts. I strongly believe that a state like Pakistan needs a deep state. That we are also a security state too.

But most other deep states don’t go around overthrowing their elected leaders. Assassinating their own patriots. Hell, assassinating their own founding fathers- labeling Fatima Jinnah a traitor, etc.

Instead, they ought to be working to make sure that the operating structure of the state is competent. What we have right now is an incompetent and by their interference (treasonous) deep state.

 

[TheSolution]

I am not against a deep state. You can look at all my previous posts. I strongly believe that a state like Pakistan needs a deep state. That we are also a security state too.

But most other deep states don’t go around overthrowing their elected leaders. Assassinating their own patriots. Hell, assassinating their own founding fathers- labeling Fatima Jinnah a traitor, etc.

Instead, they ought to be working to make sure that the operating structure of the state is competent. What we have right now is an incompetent and by their interference (treasonous) deep state.

Then we are on the same page, this is why I created the thread because I believe they require reform from within.

The boomer mentality is strong with them and there's a lot of problems that need addressing, some which they ignore due to incompetency or other reasons.

Of course the corruption stuff too but what we immediately need is priority of meritocracy. And attention to the above mentioned details. Nation building, and narrative building is not strong enough or done in a very weak manner.

Only nation this country considers a possible enemy is India - the moment those attacking them are Muslim they go into ummah chummah mode and start sucking them off instead. How on Earth can you fight insurgencies with Islamist touch like that? The solution is not liberalism like they might think