What keeps India united?

[Hephaestus]

Indian, if you aren't obsessed with Pakistan please tell me why you joined the forum.

Didn't you read my reply. Go back and read it Pakistani.
I am very interested in the happenings of Pakistan.

 

[my2cents]

LOL,People are inherently racist/xenophobic.I don't hold it against them.Our struggle isn't borne of ill treatment.We are separate nations and we would strive towards our right of independence even if India was like the west is right now(racial equality utopia- as humanly possible).
SI and it's natives enjoy a special rapport among us.We see them as one of the few civilised places in the subcontinent.If not the only.Maybe it's because SI has had more peaceful,historical relations with different people (spice route and all).It's hard to say.

I met quite a few north eastern people in US and worked with them. They all happen to be from Assam, Gauhati to be specific and they follow all the hindu rituals like rest of us. They mingle well with Indians in general. Initially they are treated differently because of their looks but once they speak hindi, all the distance melts away and are treated one among us.

From what I gather, there are way too many ethnicities and languages just in Assam alone. Population of entire north east has exploded in past 4-5 decades but the growth has not kept pace. While Indian growth was 6-8%for past two decades, northeast was growing at miserly rate of 3-5%.

For past 6 decades Northeast was pretty much isolated but what has it achieved?

I strongly believe more engagement with mainland, connectivity, diversification of your industry from agriculture is the solution. With such diverse ethnicities, respect for each other culture is the need of the hour.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Lemme reiterate this with Maps.

These white Christian guys who spoke funny and if you ask me dressed even more funnier

Made this and united it under British Raj for 200 years

Which covered Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Burma ( Myanmar ) and parts of Aden in Yeman.

British Raj - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Broke up the moment they

left in 1947 to become three countries like map below.

Which today have broken up into four countries.

Now compare the map of today and what the "white sahibs" built up in the 1800s - first map above?

The future is the future ................

Hi.. Pak was never colonised for "200" years... apart from Punjab etc which were occupied for 80 years? Baluchistan my province wasnt "colonised" the Khans signed an agreement with the British (the same treaty the militants wave when they talk about seperation) and the whole charade lasted for some 40+ odd years and all through the time the british were resisted and attacked... meanwhile Punjabis and Pashtuns etc joined the british army in hordes...

 

[Hephaestus]

A country becomes united because of external fear.Like USA keep exploring new threats to show Americans that we are under attack but actually they are not.This is a tactic to keep America intact otherwise every state will go separate n no more USA.......Same is India doing to show Indians that Pakistan n China are our enemy and want to destroy us. Their Generals n politicians want to keep money going to their pockets from arms deals. And Indians keep their eyes close to those deals n not asking government that "where is my bathroom." to reality.

Generals??? You talking about your country. Easy to paint everyone in your color.

 

[Goenitz]

Pak and religious parties? Everyone is shouting Islam Islam. What more religion-ness do you want
Nationalism cannot be quantified by any data. But, you want data.

then u need to study instead what u watch on news...
Pakistanis are secular.. we have TV, music, film industry, fashion industry etc. we have no forced Veil/Unveil problem. we dont say women cant drive.. our women are battle ready air force pilolots... of course our national identity is Islam...but our law is anglo saxon law.... you failed to recognize "state has no religion but nation does" of course we are muslims and that is personal matter for everybody

 

[Abotani]

I met quite a few north eastern people in US and worked with them. They all happen to be from Assam, Gauhati to be specific and they follow all the hindu rituals like rest of us. They mingle well with Indians in general. Initially they are treated differently because of their looks but once they speak hindi, all the distance melts away and are treated one among us.

From what I gather, there are way too many ethnicities and languages just in Assam alone. Population of entire north east has exploded in past 4-5 decades but the growth has not kept pace. While Indian growth was 6-8%for past two decades, northeast was growing at miserly rate of 3-5%.

For past 6 decades Northeast was pretty much isolated but what has it achieved?

I strongly believe more engagement with mainland, connectivity, diversification of your industry from agriculture is the solution. With such diverse ethnicities, respect for each other culture is the need of the hour.

Well,Assamese are ethnically and culturally very similar to bengalis and orissans.
True on the growth rate.However it is Assam(biggest pop) which drives down the growth rate.States like AP and Sikkim grow even at double digit rates multiple years.In fact the GDP per capita of these two states at least is higher than the Indian average.Add to that the reduced income inequality factor.
Well,NE has to be honest a lot of social achievements rather than economic or academic.The higher literacy rates,egalitarian society etc.

It is unlikely the economy will touch it's true potential under Indian control(too much interference by central institutions).

NE will never be prosperous as we want as long as it in Indian control.

 

[SrNair]

Well we have contrary to that. The British managed for 200 years ...

* Let us see if the present Brown Sahibs having managed 70 years can clock 200 years that is in another 130 years? Our great, great, grandchildren can witness that. Until then let us relax and not blow our trumpets like foools .....




Size, extremely fractured along horizontal and vertical lines or diversity. A proclivity on part of the major part of the population to sheepishly accept overlordship.

These factors were used to keep the same population "united" by the British for nearly 200 years. Prior to that the same factors were used by Moghuls to keep the same population "united". So there is a history and phenomenon behind this going 400 years back that was exploited by foreign invaders to keep such huge mass of population "united" under one rule.

As one colonial British official observed" There is so few of us ruling so many that if the Indian's all agreed to spit at one moment we ( British ) would be flushed into the sea".

In the last 70 years ruling India has gotten easy as the diversity that the British had to put up with is less. The rulers are now Indian, the two main groups who historically could pose threat are Sikhs and Marattas but after some problems both have been co opted by the ruling class.

Also the ruling class has been successful in creating a mythical "Indian" history and identity. So given history thee is nothing remarkable about 70 years being "united".

I suspect I man going read lots of fancy and elaborate reasons but like I said even the foreign invaders like British managed to clock 200 years.

There should have been far up antagonism against foreign imposed "unity" but despite that it lasted over two centuries.

If they could do that it should be a doddle for indigenous rulers or "brown sahibs".

and

Some facts here guys. The ICS or the Indian Civil Service had about 1,000 English running all of India and that would include Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma ( Myanmar ) including enclaves in Yeman etc. Please refer to map below.

The only part of Raj that gave the British any real problems was the very same area giving Pakistan today the problems - the FATA.

Federally Administered Tribal Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The British Indian Army and the component made of British would have been even smaller had that not been the case.

All we have had since 1947 is in both India and Pakistan "brown sahibs" taking the very seats occupied by "white sahibs" running both countries using exactly the same structures like Pakistan using British era Frontier or Punjab regiments to stabilze FATA exactly like the British were doing before 1947.

In India the same seats occupied by "brown sahibs" are using the same institutions including British era Sikh regiments to run the country. The only novelty is the "brown sahib" and something called "democracy".

For the sake of brevity "if 1,000 English could unite India" what is the big deal here if "brown sahib's just continue it"?

British were just one invaders .
Central Asians,Afghans ,Turks were also invadrs .
But India was united in BC through Ashoka The Great.Those rule also lasted for decades.
That was the first unification of India.Regular invasions broke us again and again.

Last one was Brits with divide and rule and there is a land of pure in our western side and BD in eastern side because of that.

We are Indians .Always will be an Indian. Live as Indian and Die as Indian.
We are Proud about our nation.
If others have burn because of that then apply some burnol.

 

[Hephaestus]

then u need to study instead what u watch on news...
Pakistanis are secular.. we have TV, music, film industry, fashion industry etc. we have no forced Veil/Unveil problem. we dont say women cant drive.. our women are battle ready air force pilolots...

Good for you. When did I say anything Pak doesn't have film industry, fashion industry etc.

of course our national identity is Islam...but our law is anglo saxon law

....

Your national identity is Islam... our national identity is Indian... 'nuff said....

you failed to recognize "state has no religion but nation does" of course we are muslims and that is personal matter for everybody

Say what now???

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Hi.. Pak was never colonised for "200" years... apart from Punjab etc which were occupied for 80 years? Baluchistan my province wasnt "colonised" the Khans signed an agreement with the British (the same treaty the militants wave when they talk about seperation) and the whole charade lasted for some 40+ odd years and all through the time the british were resisted and attacked... meanwhile Punjabis and Pashtuns etc joined the british army in hordes...

I know mate. British hold over what is Pakistan was only for 98 ( 1849-1947 ) years but even that was tenous at best. Balochistan was barely under British influence. FATA was in continous state of conflict. The Punjabi and Pashtuns of the settled belt joined the British Empire Army in hordes so much so that they almost formed 45% of it at one point. For this to happen almost every Pashtun/Punjabi family must have had a son in the British Empire Army.

Read this article below which looks at how after 1850s Pashtuns and Punjabi's became increasing favoured by the British for recruiting into their Frontier Regiment, Baloch Regiments and Punjab Regiments.

So in fact it was our grandparents from what is now Pakistan that did most of the fighting under the banner of "British Indian Army"- for good or bad and many won Victoria Cross. All this fact is subsumed by the term "India".

Ali Haidar (VC) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.csas.ed.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/48674/WP24_Shaheed_Hussain.pdf

 

[Goenitz]

Good for you. When did I say anything Pak doesn't have film industry, fashion industry etc.

thats define we are secular..

Your national identity is Islam... our national identity is Indian... 'nuff said....

even you cant define whats is "indian" tahst not an identity...may be a regionality of peopel living near river indus (tahst the derivation of name)

Say what now???

majority of people are muslims.....so its safe to say we are islamic nation. but for God sake , our state has democratic principles but not Islamic... ever heard of Caliphates?
man please read... and let me do practice Unigraphics 8.5, peacefully

 

[SrNair]

May I ask you who are you to label the thoughts of millions of people as 'sweeping individual opinions'.After all individual opinions can't keep alive insurgencies older than your nation itself.

I dont know .But I had met this lady from Arunachal Pradesh who have been working in our state.
She is fluent in malayalam.And she is proud to known as an Indian.
Another aunt is in our neighbourhood ,I think she is also from AP.She married to an Indian soldier, an uncle I know very well.Her childrens are engineers in Technopark,Kerala.
That mother told me a lot about her native lands .
So dont make sweeping statements in here.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I know mate. British hold over what is Pakistan was only for 98 ( 1849-1947 ) years but even that was tenous at best. Balochistan was barely under British influence. FATA was in continous state of conflict. The Punjabi and Pashtuns of the settled belt joined the British Empire Army in hordes so much so that they almost formed 45% of it at one point. For this to happen almost every Pashtun/Punjabi family must have had a son in the British Empire Army.

Read this article below which looks at how after 1850s Pashtuns and Punjabi's became increasing favoured by the British for recruiting into their Frontier Regiment, Baloch Regiments and Punjab Regiments.

So in fact it was our grandparents from what is now Pakistan that did most of the fighting under the banner of "British Indian Army"- for good or bad and many won Victoria Cross. All this fact is subsumed by the term "India".

Ali Haidar (VC) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.csas.ed.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/48674/WP24_Shaheed_Hussain.pdf

so your happy that you did bidding for the brits? im proud we resisted! Im proud that the brits hated us.. im proud they called us savages..

.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

so your happy that you did bidding for the brits? im proud we resisted! Im proud that the brits hated us.. im proud they called us savages..

View attachment 239308 .

Proud .....

That is why said I said "good or bad". When I see bravery I recognize it. Ali Haider might have fought on the wrong side but when he took out that German machine gun post alone he has my respect as a soldier

Better to die a soldier then a chaiwallah ...

 

[Abotani]

I dont know .But I had met this lady from Arunachal Pradesh who have been working in our state.
She is fluent in malayalam.And she is proud to known as an Indian.
Another aunt is in our neighbourhood ,I think she is also from AP.She married to an Indian soldier, an uncle I know very well.Her childrens are engineers in Technopark,Kerala.
That mother told me a lot about her native lands .
So dont make sweeping statements in here.

On the other hand,your side is the one making sweeping claims on the basis of individual,isolated people.If matrimony(one off cases as you mentioned) between two nationalities was proof of their unity,Pakistanis and Indians should be hugging each other to death.
Even the Brits and Indians had relations.So can I say British were justified to colonise the subcontinent?Or the europeans were justified because well pochahontas.
I really wish Indians would argue rationally in a pragmatic way and not the usual emotional "asuo me beh gaaye" lines.

 

[Lord ZeN]

A country becomes united because of external fear.Like USA keep exploring new threats to show Americans that we are under attack but actually they are not.This is a tactic to keep America intact otherwise every state will go separate n no more USA.......Same is India doing to show Indians that Pakistan n China are our enemy and want to destroy us. Their Generals n politicians want to keep money going to their pockets from arms deals. And Indians keep their eyes close to those deals n not asking government that "where is my bathroom." to reality.

Yeah right .. You will be nice addition to PDF. Pakistanis never fails to amaze me.