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What is your impression of China?

The US was helping the KMT but CKS was very incompetent in warfare. The US helped the KMT at every stage of the way, even providing the boats for them to escape to Taiwan.

Also, the Cold War began to heat up after the Korean war, during that stage the US would definitely support a KMT China against the USSR. Not to mention the fact that besides US support, the KMT would have allowed a free market capitalist economy that would have enriched China and allowed for massive foreign investment. American capitalists would have invested in China early on in the 50s, thus cementing China's rise 30 years earlier without the disasters of Mao's rule.

By your logic Haiti (which is in US sphere of influence since 1915) should be already rich, yet Haiti is one of the poorest countries in the world. US empire does not want competition. US empire does not want Russia, China or any other country to become stronger that US empire is.
 
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By your logic Haiti (which is in US sphere of influence since 1915) should be already rich, yet Haiti is one of the poorest countries in the world. US empire does not want competition. US empire does not want Russia, China or any other country to become stronger that US empire is.

What about Poland I mean you guys have been in the Western and American sphere since like 1990/1991 what do most Poles feel about it the general impression is Poles are anti Russian and more pro western thanks to Lech Walesa and Solidarity
 
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The US was helping the KMT but CKS was very incompetent in warfare. The US helped the KMT at every stage of the way, even providing the boats for them to escape to Taiwan.

Also, the Cold War began to heat up after the Korean war, during that stage the US would definitely support a KMT China against the USSR. Not to mention the fact that besides US support, the KMT would have allowed a free market capitalist economy that would have enriched China and allowed for massive foreign investment. American capitalists would have invested in China early on in the 50s, thus cementing China's rise 30 years earlier without the disasters of Mao's rule.
No. Aid from US was very limited. Too limited that only proves US didn't care KMT. US could send its troops to Korea and Vietnam but didn't do the same to China. There must be a good reason. US knows China will never become its vassal country and very easy to be out of its control. You can see how US treated India in the same time. China and India were on the same list.

And CKS would keep US and USSR in same distance. This was his best choice.
 
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No, if the KMT had won, China's traditional culture would have seamlessly fused with becoming a modern industrialized country. China would be a democracy with a strong tradition in human rights. Chinese people would be civilized, highly cultured and well educated like the Japanese are. Mainland China is deeply lagging in basic manners because it was ruled by Communist savages like Mao Zedong who cared nothing about human dignity, human decency and promoted disgusting peasant habits like spitting and acting like an overall savage subhuman which is what most people in China over 50 act like.

If the KMT ruled China, China would be a highly civilized country today and well liked all over the world. It is because of the CCP that Chinese people have a poor reputation and lack basic manners.

LMAO. Hilarious. KMT didn't start in 1949, they started in 1911. What did they have to show for it in 1949? And you wanna tell me KMT is civilized? You wanna tell me what culture Chiang Mai Shek had?
 
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....He would have accomplished all that 20 years prior if it weren't for the Japanese invasion which interrupted his progress....

There are two main points of time of "Japanese invasions".

The first one was the 1931 invasion of 1931.

The second one was the out-break of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937.

For the first one, when Japanese invaded Manchuria, there was no fight with the KMT because the KMT had no control of the northern area. If someone says that CKS had successfully took control of all of "China" by the end of the 1920s, then they are in effect saying that Manchuria was not part of China because the KMT had no control of the area. And they never did. After the collapse of Yuan Shikai, the warlord in control of the Manchuria area was the Fangtian clique. And Japan backed this clique because they were a useful buffer for Imperial Japanese territory in the Korean peninsula. But the Fangtian clique suffered some military defeats during the warlord fights throughout the 1920s. By 1928, the economy of the Fangtian clique fell apart. The top economy official abadoned the clique. In 1929, the Soviet Union attacked the left over government and easily defeated the left over military in the area. The SU attacked in order to reassert control of a railway that ran from the northwest straight down to the southeast onwards to Vladivostok. KMT no where in sight. Comes 1930, still no KMT. So then comes September 1931, still no KMT. The Japanese moved in. A huge area worth about 30 million people was taken easily. If the KMT was doing well, then they had 3 years to move in and take over. But they didn't. Instead Soviet activity increased in the area. And what yje Japanese installed was a Manchu state, not a Chinese state. Mind you, Manchuria was part of China only during the Qing dynasty. Before that, the area was a Manchu country. So it wasn't even deeply Chinese like how the areas more southeast of it were. The whole, yet stupidly short phrase of "Japan invaded China in 1931" really ignores so much about the whole situation about it. However CKS was angry at Japan for taking Manchuria despite the fact that he had no capacity to take the area himself! An area that was a piece of cake for the Japanese to take. In addition to increased Soviet activities in the area, another reason Japan went in was because anti-Japanese Korean communists fighters were operating from the area north of Korea. So taking Manchuria helped eliminate area where Korean communists could make a base of operation.

As for 1937, again, it wasn't a wholly unprovoked blatant invasion. CKS was kidnapped in December 1936 and pressured into ending his fight against the Chinese communists to form a "united front" against Japan. Chinese nationalistic sentiment and CKS himself wanted Manchuria back, along with anger at special provisions granted to foreigners in places like Shanghai. Shanghai I could certainly understand. But if CKS just accepted the Japanese having Manchuria, then there would never have been the motive to escalate the fight with the Japanese at skirmeshes in the northern areas like at the Marco Polo bridge. By mid 1938, Japanese advances were stopped, but KMT was qjite beat up ane weak and they often appealed for foreign aid including lines of credit from the US on two or three occassions. The FDR administration preferred CKS China and so year after year more and more credit was sent to KMT. First time was 25 million USD, or about 450 million in today's dollar in 38' if I recall correctly. Another one was sent the year afterwards. On the Japanese side of China, the Wang Jingwei regime was established by 1940 and this reasoning was used by CKS to ask for more money from the US. The US kept digging in the preference to back this incompetent KMT regime, which had brutal and forced recruitment for soldiers, some being young Chinese being kidnapped and pressed into service. And the US going as far as direct and total war with Japan, all gor what? ... the KMT losing to the commies. If the US wanted an anti-communists wall in Asia, Imperial Japan was that country! Japan was able to handle both China and the Soviet Union. But the US had to pile on. I reckon had the Wang Jingwei regime had a chance, they could have done better than the Chinese communists.

:-)
 
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There are two main points of time of "Japanese invasions".

The first one was the 1931 invasion of 1931.

The second one was the out-break of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937.

For the first one, when Japanese invaded Manchuria, there was no fight with the KMT because the KMT had no control of the northern area. If someone says that CKS had successfully took control of all of "China" by the end of the 1920s, then they are in effect saying that Manchuria was not part of China because the KMT had no control of the area. And they never did. After the collapse of Yuan Shikai, the warlord in control of the Manchuria area was the Fangtian clique. And Japan backed this clique because they were a useful buffer for Imperial Japanese territory in the Korean peninsula. But the Fangtian clique suffered some military defeats during the warlord fights throughout the 1920s. By 1928, the economy of the Fangtian clique fell apart. The top economy official abadoned the clique. In 1929, the Soviet Union attacked the left over government and easily defeated the left over military in the area. The SU attacked in order to reassert control of a railway that ran from the northwest straight down to the southeast onwards to Vladivostok. KMT no where in sight. Comes 1930, still no KMT. So then comes September 1931, still no KMT. The Japanese moved in. A huge area worth about 30 million people was taken easily. If the KMT was doing well, then they had 3 years to move in and take over. But they didn't. Instead Soviet activity increased in the area. And what yje Japanese installed was a Manchu state, not a Chinese state. Mind you, Manchuria was part of China only during the Qing dynasty. Before that, the area was a Manchu country. So it wasn't even deeply Chinese like how the areas more southeast of it were. The whole, yet stupidly short phrase of "Japan invaded China in 1931" really ignores so much about the whole situation about it. However CKS was angry at Japan for taking Manchuria despite the fact that he had no capacity to take the area himself! An area that was a piece of cake for the Japanese to take. In addition to increased Soviet activities in the area, another reason Japan went in was because anti-Japanese Korean communists fighters were operating from the area north of Korea. So taking Manchuria helped eliminate area where Korean communists could make a base of operation.

As for 1937, again, it wasn't a wholly unprovoked blatant invasion. CKS was kidnapped in December 1936 and pressured into ending his fight against the Chinese communists to form a "united front" against Japan. Chinese nationalistic sentiment and CKS himself wanted Manchuria back, along with anger at special provisions granted to foreigners in places like Shanghai. Shanghai I could certainly understand. But if CKS just accepted the Japanese having Manchuria, then there would never have been the motive to escalate the fight with the Japanese at skirmeshes in the northern areas like at the Marco Polo bridge. By mid 1938, Japanese advances were stopped, but KMT was qjite beat up ane weak and they often appealed for foreign aid including lines of credit from the US on two or three occassions. The FDR administration preferred CKS China and so year after year more and more credit was sent to KMT. First time was 25 million USD, or about 450 million in today's dollar in 38' if I recall correctly. Another one was sent the year afterwards. On the Japanese side of China, the Wang Jingwei regime was established by 1940 and this reasoning was used by CKS to ask for more money from the US. The US kept digging in the preference to back this incompetent KMT regime, which had brutal and forced recruitment for soldiers, some being young Chinese being kidnapped and pressed into service. And the US going as far as direct and total war with Japan, all gor what? ... the KMT losing to the commies. If the US wanted an anti-communists wall in Asia, Imperial Japan was that country! Japan was able to handle both China and the Soviet Union. But the US had to pile on. I reckon had the Wang Jingwei regime had a chance, they could have done better than the Chinese communists.

:-)

Give me a fucking break. Japan invaded China because it wanted to and it could. It was not unprovoked. Japan shouldnt have been in Manchuria in the first place.

Your attitude is why Japan is still hated.
 
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Give me a fucking break. Japan invaded China because it wanted to and it could. It was not unprovoked. Japan shouldnt have been in Manchuria in the first place.

Your attitude is why Japan is still hated.

For today's standards, sure, Japan shouldn't have been in there. But those days were different. Mongolia was also part of Qing territory. Yet in the 1920s, the Soviet Union went in and set up a puppet Commie regime.

And lets not forget the many other colonies that were being maintained. So all those empires were morally correct to keep their empires but Japan was in the wrong to grab the power vacumm region of Manchuria?

The one that should be given a break is Japan about this "Japanese aggression".

I'm not calling it a proud point or morally correct or anything like that, but those were the days. There was no reason why Manchuria had to be considered part of China when it was no longer part of the KMT. Along with Mongolia and Manchuria, Tibet was also not part of the KMT or any other Chinese warlord. Should Tibet also be cursed with "part of China" no matter what?

If Japan is still hated today for that history, then the problem is not Japan but the induced dumbdown innocently ignorant population going on a kneejerk reaction.
 
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For today's standards, sure, Japan shouldn't have been in there. But those days were different. Mongolia was also part of Qing territory. Yet in the 1920s, the Soviet Union went in and set up a puppet Commie regime.

And lets not forget the many other colonies that were being maintained. So all those empires were morally correct to keep their empires but Japan was in the wrong to grab the power vacumm region of Manchuria?

The one that should be given a break is Japan about this "Japanese aggression".

I'm not calling it a proud point or morally correct or anything like that, but those were the days. There was no reason why Manchuria had to be considered part of China when it was no longer part of the KMT. Along with Mongolia and Manchuria, Tibet was also not part of the KMT or any other Chinese warlord. Should Tibet also be cursed with "part of China" no matter what?

If Japan is still hated today for that history, then the problem is not Japan but the induced dumbdown innocently ignorant population going on a kneejerk reaction.

Japan's invasion of China started in 1931 and continued in 1937. PERIOD.

Honestly, just shut up.
 
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Japan's invasion of China started in 1931 and continued in 1937. PERIOD.

Honestly, just shut up.

CKS made two fatal mistakes.

One was wanting to get Manchuria and thus made relations much worse with Japan than necessary.

The other was siding with the Chinese communists.

If he did neither, then he would have maintained control of the core mainland China proper and strengthen control over it, and thus highly unlikely China would have fallen to the communists.

Might be interesting to know that when WW2 was coming to a close, CKS considered leaving ghe Imperial Japanese Army in China. Apparantly, Japan was willing to allow command over the Imperial Japanese Army units throughout to fall under the Nationalists Chinese. Why? Because both the Japanese and the Nationalists were anti communists. Neither wanted to see the communists win. Unfortunately, the US demand for unconditional surrender made it intolerable to leave Japanese units in China. Although for pragmatic purposes, they mostly did stay fir an extra year or so until the Nationalists were more ready to takeover Japanese parts.

Another bit that might be intetesting is that some Japanese did in fact change over to the nationalists volenteerily for the purpose of helping fight against the communist. One individual was Nemoto Hiroshi. He helped with preparation for the last stand fight at Kinmen island, enabling KMT's secured retreat to Taiwan. CKS bestowed great appreciation to Nemoto.
https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/根本博
 
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