What is your idea about the possibility of secularism in Iran?

[Etiene]

You guys should know that if you hurt turkish pride they will vomit nonsense in our section! What happened to us getting a mod?

 

[SOHEIL]

LOL, reading all the hateful comments, I think Iran will never become secular or modern. Maybe if Iran get's divided after a war with internal and external players, seperate states can be formed, divided amongst lines of religious states and secular states.

secular = modern !?

nice logic !!!

 

[livingdead]

secular = modern !?

nice logic !!!

Secularism is relatively modern thought, many previous rulers influenced and were influenced by the clergy (in many places in the world)

 

[SOHEIL]

the guy is probably a cosmokh from cosmos.

you see? I thought Turks never say bad about Iran? Go on youtube and see all hateful comments from Turks insulting Iranians. You want be to screenshot them for you? Please all Turks, stop commenting in Iran section. Forget a country called Iran exists. We don't care about you, stop caring about us.

Kos mos

nashnidi Migan Kos mos to paro balet hast !?

 

[SOHEIL]

Secularism is relatively modern thought, many previous rulers influenced and were influenced by the clergy (in many places in the world)

it is very sad a backward !!! county like Iran has a plan for manned space launch ... but a super secular county in ME can't send their PM's non-exist balls into space !!!

 

[Hammer-fist]

1. The revolution of 1979 was not an "Islamic revolution" but an uprising of the people against the oppressive regime of the Shah. It included leftists such as Tudeh, Kurds, Shia radicals and others. It was not a Khomeneist revolution.

Khomenei however promised these other groups they would work together, once the French-based Khomenei (the Iranian regime ultimately had western backing) came to power he showed his true colours and betrayed all his promises and established his own "Islamic" system (or interpretation of Islam.

2. The majority of Shia clerics in Iran do not believe in the current Iranian ruling system as far as I know, i.e Velayat i Faqih but stick to traditional Shia beliefs.

Velayat (Farsi for the Arabic "Wilayah" or guardianship) i Faqih (Arabic for jurist) was a Khomeneist departure from traditional twelver Shiasm which insisted that until the return of the hidden/awaited Imam (Al-Mehdi al-Muntadhir) many major religious obligations could not be performed such as jummah (Friday prayers) governmental systems etc. However Khomenei said that Shias could not wait indefinitely for the hidden Imam to return and in his absence a qualified jurist should assume some of his functions.

Khomenei was the first Velayat i Faqih (who rules whilst the Imam is absent), and Khamenei his successor is the 2nd.

As far as I know the Iranian-born Sistani in Iraq also opposes Velayat i Faqih.

3. Support for the regime.

I have no idea but can only say what I've heard.

Some claim 90% of Iranians oppose the regime.

However the most plausible explanation is what I heard from an Iranian Sunni (ethnically Farsi) who said that 1/3-1/4 are strong regime supporters, another 1/3-1/4 are indifferent and another 1/3-1/4 are against the regime.

Those who do not like the regime and would want change include:

- Kurds
- Baluchis
- Turkmens (not as big as the first two)
- Arabs (e.g. in Khuzestan i.e. Ahwaz)
- secular urban elite

Those who support the regime include

- conservative Shia masses including in the rural areas.
- urban religious Shia

I have not mentioned the Azeris. However what I do know is that Azeris consider themselves proud Iranians and generally have no interest in pan-Turkism (they consider being Iranian and Iranic culture more sophisticated and superior...to be honest Turks are looked down up in Iran and there are jokes about Turks, Azeris, Qazvin etc).

Some of the hardcore regime supporters are Azeri including the supreme leader of Iran, Khamenei himself and also senior generals.

In my experiences though I would say Iranians are similar to Turks in that 90% of the urban elite are secular and anti-regime. They do not represent the whole country though but represent its most powerful component socially.

4. I believe personally the Iranian regime was brought in to power by the west for certain reasons which I cannot go in to and is deliberately allowed to continue.

However regardless of how true/false that belief is I would not encourage a revolution as it would cause instability. For those who wish change I would encourage incremental change.

People said Rafsanjani was a "hardliner", followed by a "reformist" Khatami (my Sunni friends who were practising Sunnis from Iran appreciated him) and then followed by a "hardliner", Ahmadinejad. So Ahmadinejad may be followed by a "reformer". However change is inevitable and no tyranny can last for ever, the current neo-Safawi regime in Iran is a combination of two ideologies, Shia-supremacism and Persian chauvinism.

In reality Iran is possibly 20% Sunni including the Kurds, Balochis, Turkmens, and even Farsi Sunnis in Khorasan and the south coast e.g. Bandar Abbas region.

It is also a multi-ethnic state just like Pakistan, Afghanistan, India or Yugoslavia and I believe Sunnis and ethnic groups should have complete religious and ethnic freedom. As for autonomy that is an internal Iranian matter I will leave Iranians be they Farsi, Kurdish, Azeri, Balochi to decide.

To conclude I think the Iranian regime has made many of Iran's elite develop a deep hatred for Islam as they see it as repressive, but this regime will continue for the foreseeable future.

The other issue Iranians need to consider can be seen below....

 

[kollang]

bulshit^^^ khomeini asked people to choose their favorite gov type.98% voted for islamic republic.
Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SOHEIL]

1. The revolution of 1979 was not an "Islamic revolution" but an uprising of the people against the oppressive regime of the Shah. It included leftists such as Tudeh, Kurds, Shia radicals and others. It was not a Khomeneist revolution.

Khomenei however promised these other groups they would work together, once the French-based Khomenei (the Iranian regime ultimately had western backing) came to power he showed his true colours and betrayed all his promises and established his own "Islamic" system (or interpretation of Islam.

2. The majority of Shia clerics in Iran do not believe in the current Iranian ruling system as far as I know, i.e Velayat i Faqih but stick to traditional Shia beliefs.

Velayat (Farsi for the Arabic "Wilayah" or guardianship) i Faqih (Arabic for jurist) was a Khomeneist departure from traditional twelver Shiasm which insisted that until the return of the hidden/awaited Imam (Al-Mehdi al-Muntadhir) many major religious obligations could not be performed such as jummah (Friday prayers) governmental systems etc. However Khomenei said that Shias could not wait indefinitely for the hidden Imam to return and in his absence a qualified jurist should assume some of his functions.

Khomenei was the first Velayat i Faqih (who rules whilst the Imam is absent), and Khamenei his successor is the 2nd.

As far as I know the Iranian-born Sistani in Iraq also opposes Velayat i Faqih.

3. Support for the regime.

I have no idea but can only say what I've heard.

Some claim 90% of Iranians oppose the regime.

However the most plausible explanation is what I heard from an Iranian Sunni (ethnically Farsi) who said that 1/3-1/4 are strong regime supporters, another 1/3-1/4 are indifferent and another 1/3-1/4 are against the regime.

Those who do not like the regime and would want change include:

- Kurds
- Baluchis
- Turkmens (not as big as the first two)
- Arabs (e.g. in Khuzestan i.e. Ahwaz)
- secular urban elite

Those who support the regime include

- conservative Shia masses including in the rural areas.
- urban religious Shia

I have not mentioned the Azeris. However what I do know is that Azeris consider themselves proud Iranians and generally have no interest in pan-Turkism (they consider being Iranian and Iranic culture more sophisticated and superior...to be honest Turks are looked down up in Iran and there are jokes about Turks, Azeris, Qazvin etc).

Some of the hardcore regime supporters are Azeri including the supreme leader of Iran, Khamenei himself and also senior generals.

In my experiences though I would say Iranians are similar to Turks in that 90% of the urban elite are secular and anti-regime. They do not represent the whole country though but represent its most powerful component socially.

4. I believe personally the Iranian regime was brought in to power by the west for certain reasons which I cannot go in to and is deliberately allowed to continue.

However regardless of how true/false that belief is I would not encourage a revolution as it would cause instability. For those who wish change I would encourage incremental change.

People said Rafsanjani was a "hardliner", followed by a "reformist" Khatami (my Sunni friends who were practising Sunnis from Iran appreciated him) and then followed by a "hardliner", Ahmadinejad. So Ahmadinejad may be followed by a "reformer". However change is inevitable and no tyranny can last for ever, the current neo-Safawi regime in Iran is a combination of two ideologies, Shia-supremacism and Persian chauvinism.

In reality Iran is possibly 20% Sunni including the Kurds, Balochis, Turkmens, and even Farsi Sunnis in Khorasan and the south coast e.g. Bandar Abbas region.

It is also a multi-ethnic state just like Pakistan, Afghanistan, India or Yugoslavia and I believe Sunnis and ethnic groups should have complete religious and ethnic freedom. As for autonomy that is an internal Iranian matter I will leave Iranians be they Farsi, Kurdish, Azeri, Balochi to decide.

To conclude I think the Iranian regime has made many of Iran's elite develop a deep hatred for Islam as they see it as repressive, but this regime will continue for the foreseeable future.

The other issue Iranians need to consider can be seen below....

no comment !!!

only WTF !!!

hey Iranians !!! consider plz !!!

what you guys smoking out there !?

 

[livingdead]

it is very sad a backward !!! county like Iran has a plan for manned space launch ... but a super secular county in ME can't send their PM's non-exist balls into space !!!

It is not impossible for a socially backward country to have technological achievements especially if enough money spent, but there is little chance of getting something new. Innovation and new discovery (in many fields including science, social studies, arts, literature etc) is faster in freerer and modern society in general.

That is precisely what is holding many south asian countries back and I guess Iran too. (might be Iran is ahead of south asia but there is room for improvement)

 

[SOHEIL]

bulshit^^^ khomeini asked people to choose their favorite gov type.98% voted for islamic republic.
Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the only thing he said :

my Sunni friend said this ...

my Sunni friend said that ...

source : his Sunni friend !!!

20% Sunni !!!

holy crap ...

 

[kollang]

It is not impossible for a socially backward country to have technological achievements especially if enough money spent, but there is little chance of getting something new. Innovation and new discovery (in many fields including science, social studies, arts, literature etc) is faster in freerer and modern society in general.

That is precisely what is holding many south asian countries back and I guess Iran too. (might be Iran is ahead of south asia but there is room for improvement)

what about a sanctioned country that can not import any military stuff?
anyway such a country can not make air crafts,cargo ships.that country can not become the 3rd dam builder.that country can not have the fastest science growth in the world.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Very interesting, isn't it?

Why our economy failed?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why the democracy level is not acceptable?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why the human right in Iran is at this stage?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why corruption indexes are that high?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why sending a human to the space for France with near T$3 GDP still is not a priority?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why nobody is responsible in this country?
You are talking more than needed! (Thanks god. we got a different answer, finally!)

 

[SOHEIL]

It is not impossible for a socially backward country to have technological achievements especially if enough money spent, but there is little chance of getting something new. Innovation and new discovery (in many fields including science, social studies, arts, literature etc) is faster in freerer and modern society in general.

That is precisely what is holding many south asian countries back and I guess Iran too. (might be Iran is ahead of south asia but there is room for improvement)

my friend !!!

make it clear ... have you ever been in Iran ???

 

[livingdead]

what about a sanctioned country that can not import any military stuff?
anyway such a country can not make air crafts,cargo ships.that country can not become the 3rd dam builder.that country can not have the fastest science growth in the world.

I am not taking away any achievement, I dont understand how you relate secularism or modern thought with it. Ask the scientist and engineers who do it by hard work and using scientific thought (a modern method) rather than any religious way.
I dont see any correlation in islam (or any other religion) and technological achievement. The fact that your previous regime was secular but did not have space program and hence backward is not really a good argument.

If you can use modern technology why not use latest (not really latest, quite old in europe) innovation in statecraft, i,e, separation of church and state. It works really well especially if a country is diverse and has some religious minority.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Very interesting, isn't it?

Why our economy failed?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why the democracy level is not acceptable?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why the human right in Iran is at this stage?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why corruption indexes are that high?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why sending a human to the space for France with near T$3 GDP still is not a priority?
Not important, we are going to lunch a human to the space

Why nobody is responsible in this country?
You are talking more than needed! (Thanks god. we got a different answer, finally!)

funny post

But come on, you are not being fair! Only 1 time was the space launch mentioned. Also nobody brought up corruption levels, France, or anything like this.