What Is Pakistan Real Annual Defense Budget

[Water Car Engineer]

7% in real GDP terms even higher prehaps

This wud equate too $11-12 billion per year

Wow..I thought it was just around 3%. Ours is like 2.4%..

 

[justanobserver]

Got this from Google public data

 

[aristocrat]

$72 billion- this is the sum value of all equipment india has/will have valued at prices prevailing in the United States.
$24 billion-Expenditure in inr divided by the bilateral average US value i.e [45,47 whatevr]
by the way hw to use inr symbol??

 

[Von Hölle]

Pakistan's actual defence budget is $9.2 Billion, which is around 5.2 % GDP.

From my limited knowledge, I know Pakistan armed forces budget for 2010-11 was Rs 442 Billion(roughly 3% of GDP).

But this does not included certain expenditures such as pension for retired soldiers and NCOs(which is normally included defence budgets), I believe Musharaff had introduces this arrangement during his reign.

So actually Pak defence budget amounts to 675 billion which roughly translates to 4.5% of GDP(assuming GDP=$176Billion)

Now they have further increased the budget by 110 billion, so now defence budget 785 billion(approx $9.2 Billion). This amounts to massive 5.2% of GDP, while health and education combined get a measly 2% of GDP.

Clearly Pakistan's priorities are crystal clear.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...lion-increase-defence-budget.html#post1154199

 

[TaimiKhan]

Storm Force, after having opened God knows how many strange kind of threads in the aviation section, you have now pointed your guns towards this, its seems you and Azad are in some kind of a race.

Anyway, here below is what you had said and after that i don't understand why are you talking about Pakistan defence budget.

" India,s Military budget of $32 billion . Forex of $280 billion and GDP of $1.2 TRILLION

ARE AT A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEVEL or playing field to pakistans.

Military budget of $6billion forex of $16 billion or GDP of $170 billion.

Thread should be concluded on this note. "

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...stan-indian-defence-spendings.html#post985777

Still anyway, below is a rough working of the defence budget of Pakistan:

442,173,000,000.00 Total Budget @ Rs.85 to dollar rate its US$5.202Billion

1,427,000,000.00 Defence Admn Expenses

176,000,000,000.00 Salaries & Benefits (US$ 2.070Billion)

111,240,000,000.00 Operational Expenditure (US$ 1.308Billion)

153,506,000,000.00 Defence production, physical assets, civil works etc etc (US$ 1.806Billion)

Add to it another US$ 850.0M for the pensions as its Rs.72Billion.

And at the most add another US$ 500M (may even be less) for the defence related budget, which are added in other heads of the budget other then defence.

So the total would come to: US$ 6.6Billion and just for satisfaction get it to round about US$ 7.0Billion. 4% or 4.5% of the GDP

Hope this satisfies your query.

And yeah forgot to add, the current rupee to dollar rate is at Rs.86.50 for 27th Sept, thus the dollar figure for the budget would be more low.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Pakistan's actual defence budget is $9.2 Billion, which is around 5.2 % GDP.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...lion-increase-defence-budget.html#post1154199

No, it doesn't adds up to this figure.

The 110B raise is very uncertain as there is no confirm report about this new raise, nor has the govt confirmed it, rather govt functionaries have shown surprise over this report.

Its most probably a mistake from the media guys, who took the figure as a raise, while the govt was giving this figure to the IMF to let them know about the raise they had done in the official budget which was presented in June.

 

[Von Hölle]

No, it doesn't adds up to this figure.

The 110B raise is very uncertain as there is no confirm report about this new raise, nor has the govt confirmed it, rather govt functionaries have shown surprise over this report.

Its most probably a mistake from the media guys, who took the figure as a raise, while the govt was giving this figure to the IMF to let them know about the raise they had done in the official budget which was presented in June.

Ok,
if the defence budget is not increased and remains the same at 675 billion(IMF figures) which roughly translates to $7.9 Billion (at exchange rate 85) , it will amount to 4.5% of GDP($176 Billion).

 

[TaimiKhan]

Ok,
if the defence budget is not increased and remains the same at 675 billion(IMF figures) which roughly translates to $7.9 Billion (at exchange rate 85) , it will amount to 4.5% of GDP($176 Billion).

From where are you getting the 675Billion figure ??

As per 2010-11 defence budget was 442Billion, add to it 72B for pensions, the resulting figure is much less then the 675B by IMF.

Any break up of how IMF is quoting this figure, as this is not the govt's figure.

------------------------------------------------

Ok, got the clarification, the IMF has added the WoT expenditure in the defence budget also. Well its upto them to what to do, but as we all know, these are the funds which get reimbursed, thus they don't come under the defence budget technically, as its being given back after some duration of time.

IMF quotes around 225B under the pensions and WoT contingency funds, I have added the 72B in pensions to the above figure, which leaves 153B under the WoT head, which we do spend but we get reimbursed later on, thus its not a defence spending.

 

[Von Hölle]

From where are you getting the 675Billion figure ??

As per 2010-11 defence budget was 442Billion, add to it 72B for pensions, the resulting figure is much less then the 675B by IMF.

Any break up of how IMF is quoting this figure, as this is not the govt's figure.

From here.

Real figure of defence budget

Saturday, June 12, 2010

By Ansar Abbasi

ISLAMABAD: Principal Economic Adviser to the Finance Ministry Saqib Sheerani has said the total defence budget for the next fiscal year is around Rs 675 billion and not Rs 442 billion.

Talking to The News, Sheerani said the defence budget was not reflected under one head in the budget but was distributed in three different heads. He was explaining why the IMF shows Rs 593 billion as the total defence spending for the outgoing year as against Rs 378 billion shown in the latest budget books.

He explained that for the outgoing fiscal year, Rs 378 billion was shown under the main head of the defence budget whereas over Rs 200 billion was reflected under two other heads — pension spending and war on terror contingency head. He said the government had also to pay for some legacy expenditures like purchases of some defence hardware for which the deals were struck during the Musharraf tenure.

He said now like the present concluding fiscal year, the next budget too contained the total allocation of the defence budget in three different heads. He said besides Rs 442 billion that is announced as defence budget for the next fiscal year, almost Rs 225 billion was also allocated for pension and under the head of the war on terror contingency.

The IMF website reflects Rs 593 billion as defence spending but the number announced in the budget is Rs 378 billion for the outgoing fiscal year. Similarly, the finance minister announced 4.1 per cent GDP growth for the year ending June 30, 2010 but the IMF website reflects 3 per cent GDP growth rate.

In yet another case of budget contradictions, the announced budget shows 5.1 per cent budget deficit for the outgoing year but the pre-budget cabinet meeting that approved the budget 2010-11 was shown the deficit of 5.3 per cent by the Finance Ministry’s summary.

Whether one calls it a jugglery of words or budget fudging but Secretary Finance Salman Siddiq sees these contradictions as a matter of routine. “This is just a mathematical thing,” he said, adding like Japan, Pakistan is following a system where the figures get matured and final in three years.

He explained that like Japan, Pakistan follows a system where the GDP gets finalised in three years. In the first year, the figures are estimated and in the following year we get the provisional figures while in the third year the final figures get matured.

Referring to the contradictions in the figures as reflected in the budget, the IMF website and the cabinet summary, he said the figures really don’t matter as the IMF precisely knows that our fiscal deficit is Rs 783 billion.

 

[Hutchroy]

Still anyway, below is a rough working of the defence budget of Pakistan:

442,173,000,000.00 Total Budget @ Rs.85 to dollar rate its US$5.202Billion

1,427,000,000.00 Defence Admn Expenses

176,000,000,000.00 Salaries & Benefits (US$ 2.070Billion)

111,240,000,000.00 Operational Expenditure (US$ 1.308Billion)

153,506,000,000.00 Defence production, physical assets, civil works etc etc (US$ 1.806Billion)

Add to it another US$ 850.0M for the pensions as its Rs.72Billion.

And at the most add another US$ 500M (may even be less) for the defence related budget, which are added in other heads of the budget other then defence.

So the total would come to: US$ 6.6Billion and just for satisfaction get it to round about US$ 7.0Billion. 4% or 4.5% of the GDP

Hope this satisfies your query.

And yeah forgot to add, the current rupee to dollar rate is at Rs.86.50 for 27th Sept, thus the dollar figure for the budget would be more low.

1. Many thanks for your two P-Mails. Much appreciated but one begs to respectfully differ.

2. Pakistan's Military maintains a Personnel Strength which is half that of India.

Pakistani Defence Personnel Wages and Perquisite are much higher than their Indian counterparts - what with Bullet Proof SUVs and Limousines. Even the Indian Generals go about in the Ambassadors (Based on the 1950 Morris Oxford) and Marutis (Suzuki)

As such I would put Pakistan's Actual Defence Budget to be say One Third of the Indian Defence Budget of about US$ 35 Billion.

 

[TaimiKhan]

From here.

Explanation given in my previous post, its not a defence spending in real terms, its the 153B being shown for WoT expenditure, which we get reimbursed from the US.

I already added the 72B being used for the pensions in my calculations.

So the real defence budget is around US$7B.

 

[TaimiKhan]

1. Many thanks for your two P-Mails. Much appreciated but one begs to respectfully differ.

2. Pakistan's Military maintains a Personnel Strength which is half that of India.

Pakistani Defence Personnel Wages and Perquisite are much higher than their Indian counterparts - what with Bullet Proof SUVs and Limousines. Even the Indian Generals go about in the Ambassadors (Based on the 1950 Morris Oxford) and Marutis (Suzuki)

As such I would put Pakistan's Actual Defence Budget to be say One Third of the Indian Defence Budget of about US$ 35 Billion.

1. No problem, well you can differ, but we can talk and discuss it out as there are logical explanations.

2. Yeah, strength may be half, but it doesn't means the expenses of the forces would be also half. Exchange rates of both countries differ, plus pay of all the officers and ORs are not the same across the board, they differ, some get more pay, some less. Plus, the official document has already given the pay figures, which is around 2B USD.

Well i haven't yet seen limousines and SUVs with the Pak generals, if you have do let me know the pics and video. But yeah, they do have some armored vehicles, that also for just the top ones, not every tom, dick and harry. So, plz don't give false statements, we did saw one of the Lt Gen get assassinated by a suicide bomber, who blew right beside his car and his car was made into a skeleton, the car was a normal Pakistani made Toyota Corolla. Plus, we do have the attack on the Corps Commander karachi as an example. I go to Rawalpindi very often and my office is right on the road leading to GHQ, and whenever i go, i see Lt Gens going in Pak made Toyota Corolla car, with just one or at the most 2 escort vehicles, which many times are the double cabin pick-ups, we mostly see or the old army RKR jeeps.

So do enlighten me with the limos and SUVs, even the COAS has a armored Mercedes and no SUVs in his entourage.

Even the cars are a one time expense, which i guess would have been charged up from the US, as its need has been arisen thanks to them, otherwise even when Musharaf became president, he used to have one simple non-armored vehicle with just one or two escort cars, so time changed, so did the requirements.

And do remember, Indian defence forces are on a rearming, overhauling spree, while we are not, thus their budget can be much much more, its not a rule of thumb that we have to be 1/3rd of theirs, as we are not acquiring things in Billions or doing deals in Billions. When was the last time, you heard pakistan do a deal in Billions ?? Not since the F-16s. Deals with China are on credit, so we don't spent in billions in one single year.

Plz go over the Indian defence budget and see what goes where and for what, they have more huge army, thus more weapons and systems, thus more operating cost. They are going for 2-front war preparations, thus Billions of USD for new deals, they have a huge navy, huge air force, huge army, all are going for Billions of USD in defence deals for upgradation and purchasing new deals, plus add into the amount they give out for R&D to local companies, has pakistan countered these all ?? If yes with how much Billions and what are the assets it has bought ?? Care to clarify.

Hope you can not get some of the logic this time, and if you can't well then sorry i can't do more, as i explained in as much detail as i could this time as well as previous time too.

 

[Hutchroy]

1. No problem, well you can differ, but we can talk and discuss it out as there are logical explanations.

2. Yeah, strength may be half, but it doesn't means the expenses of the forces would be also half. Exchange rates of both countries differ, plus pay of all the officers and ORs are not the same across the board, they differ, some get more pay, some less. Plus, the official document has already given the pay figures, which is around 2B USD.

Well i haven't yet seen limousines and SUVs with the Pak generals, if you have do let me know the pics and video. But yeah, they do have some armored vehicles, that also for just the top ones, not every tom, dick and harry. So, plz don't give false statements, we did saw one of the Lt Gen get assassinated by a suicide bomber, who blew right beside his car and his car was made into a skeleton, the car was a normal Pakistani made Toyota Corolla. Plus, we do have the attack on the Corps Commander karachi as an example. I go to Rawalpindi very often and my office is right on the road leading to GHQ, and whenever i go, i see Lt Gens going in Pak made Toyota Corolla car, with just one or at the most 2 escort vehicles, which many times are the double cabin pick-ups, we mostly see or the old army RKR jeeps.

So do enlighten me with the limos and SUVs, even the COAS has a armored Mercedes and no SUVs in his entourage.

Even the cars are a one time expense, which i guess would have been charged up from the US, as its need has been arisen thanks to them, otherwise even when Musharaf became president, he used to have one simple non-armored vehicle with just one or two escort cars, so time changed, so did the requirements.

And do remember, Indian defence forces are on a rearming, overhauling spree, while we are not, thus their budget can be much much more, its not a rule of thumb that we have to be 1/3rd of theirs, as we are not acquiring things in Billions or doing deals in Billions. When was the last time, you heard pakistan do a deal in Billions ?? Not since the F-16s. Deals with China are on credit, so we don't spent in billions in one single year.

Plz go over the Indian defence budget and see what goes where and for what, they have more huge army, thus more weapons and systems, thus more operating cost. They are going for 2-front war preparations, thus Billions of USD for new deals, they have a huge navy, huge air force, huge army, all are going for Billions of USD in defence deals for upgradation and purchasing new deals, plus add into the amount they give out for R&D to local companies, has pakistan countered these all ?? If yes with how much Billions and what are the assets it has bought ?? Care to clarify.

Hope you can not get some of the logic this time, and if you can't well then sorry i can't do more, as i explained in as much detail as i could this time as well as previous time too.

Armoured Mercedes are Limousines.

The 35% is not a rule of thumb figure - it is based on a Pakistani Defence Personnel Strength being Half the Indian Defence Personnel Strength.

I agree that the Indian Budget is about US$ 35 Billion, but, then Indian Economy is over SEVEN Times that of Pakistan. The Indian Coast Line and associated Air "Border" is over Seven Times that of Pakistan.

Thus the the need for India to have a "Seven" Times Defence Capability as Pakistan.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Armoured Mercedes are Limousines.

The 35% is not a rule of thumb figure - it is based on a Pakistani Defence Personnel Strength being Half the Indian Defence Personnel Strength.

I agree that the Indian Budget is about US$ 35 Billion, but, then Indian Economy is over SEVEN Times that of Pakistan. The Indian Coast Line and associated Air "Border" is over Seven Times that of Pakistan.

Thus the the need for India to have a "Seven" Times Defence Capability as Pakistan.

Well in pakistan, we don't call them limos & as said, every tom, dick & harry doesn't has it. Only the top ones, plus we have now a local solutions too, the HIT can make an armored car from a simple Pak made corolla, and has already been doing that, so hopefully by now the need for getting expensive armored cars from abroad would be gone too.

Yeah, i agreed with that too, strength may be half, but not expenses.
They differ based on many factors.

I did not and don't dispute the largeness of the Indian economy or its defensive or coastline needs, my concern was that if India has 35B $ budget, it doesn't means Pakistan's would be 1/3rd of it, which amounts to 10B $ for Pakistan, as its not true, nor are we doing anything to suggest that we have so much money for defence.

 

[Hutchroy]

Well in pakistan, we don't call them limos & as said, every tom, dick & harry doesn't has it. Only the top ones, plus we have now a local solutions too, the HIT can make an armored car from a simple Pak made corolla, and has already been doing that, so hopefully by now the need for getting expensive armored cars from abroad would be gone too.

Yeah, i agreed with that too, strength may be half, but not expenses.
They differ based on many factors.

I did not and don't dispute the largeness of the Indian economy or its defensive or coastline needs, my concern was that if India has 35B $ budget, it doesn't means Pakistan's would be 1/3rd of it, which amounts to 10B $ for Pakistan, as its not true, nor are we doing anything to suggest that we have so much money for defence.

The figure of 35% is based on Half the Personnel Strength with better wages, perquisites, facilities etc. (Don't forget up to 400 Acres of Land)

One third of US$ 35 Billion is nearly US$ 12 Billion and not US$ 10 Billion.

The "actual effects" of the Defence spending be it US$ 7 Billion as you stated and nearly $12 Billion as I feel will be known at the end of Pakistan's Financial Year 2010-2011.