Can't agree more sir, but he need to be clever for a long time otherwise we have examples, like Saddam zia Gaddafi (the list is long) but all were sweethearts of the West and uncle Sam but not for long. They were expandable after their use. The conspiracies keep popping around him too like khashqi etc,making him vulnerable
Actually, Saddam and Gaddafi were more idiots then sweethearts of the west. I live in the west and I never came across any media going back to my youth in early 1980s where either of these despots were regarded as sweethearts. Both were treated as crazed mad dogs. Gaddafi was barely tolerated and got bombed by US back in 1980s narrowly escaping death. Saddam was another despot. Both were actually darlings of Soviet Russia. Saddam got bombed with western support by Israel again in the 1980s. To be sure Saddam found himself on the same page as USA with regards to Iran in 1979 with the revolution. But that was just coincidence and was far from sweethearts. It was like two guys who did not like each other but now agreed to dislike somebody they hated even more ~ Iran.
thanks for the informative insight, lots of knowledge in a couple of paras, i agree my info was just a hear say. one more thing though, there is always a leverage involved in bilateral relations, in case of KSA and other oil rich countries definitely its oil and $$$, however the world is losing fossil fuels quickly, some predict we ill run out of the fossil fuel in 35 years. won't this be a loss of leverage in terms of relations with the west for KSA and rest
I don’t know exactly about this issue, but maybe because Turkey is a NATO memberKSA is more influential than Turkey. Even in tiny Balkans which might be the only area of the Muslim world were Arabs have traditionally been less influence than Turkey, KSA has tremendous influence in Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo etc. Our religious and cultural clout in the Arab and Islamic world has no competitors. Our depth and ties in relations with China and Russia (combined) is also matched by very few if any Muslim countries. So-called mighty Erdogan was negotiating with Russia for the S-400 for years if not months. KSA did a deal with Russia within 1 single visit. Without any boosting or much media attention.
How can KSA make a deal with Russia (S-400) and other strategic weapons (that are never sold to US-allies or pro-Western countries) without any fuss from the US, work extremely closely with China on our ballistic missile program (they already sold us a very large number of various missiles that are able to carry nuclear weapons and that was 35 years ago) while we speak, extract uranium for internal use within KSA (jointly) while we speak, US-enemies like China and Russia are openly competing to build nuclear reactors inside KSA, KSA openly defying the offers of the US on this front that would prevent us from using our own uranium as nuclear fuel = potentially building the bomb if we want to) etc.
9/11 that many in the US blames KSA (regime for), openly supporting the Iraqi resistance that killed 1000's of US soldiers across the border (just across the border).
I mean is there something I don't understand about supposedly being the "mighty puppet" that PDF trolls here are barking about 24/7?
It's not about KSA being some superpower (it is not) but it makes you think.
That is very impressive as we all know. All within 4 years only.
Anyway, as I wrote extensively prior in this thread I find it laughable that some users reduce it to money and wealth alone. I have given plenty of examples that put that theory to bed yet it seems like I am speaking (we, dare I say) to deaf ears.
But it is the growth of non-oil revenues that stands out in Saudi Arabia’s 2019 budget announcement. In 2014, non-oil earnings worth $33.9bn (SAR127bn) contributed 12% to Saudi Arabia’s total revenue, and this number has surged to 32% in 2018, when the corresponding figure is valued at $76.5bn.
House of Saud sweethearts of the West?
Name me a single country that is supposedly "allied" with the West that has more propaganda thrown at them?
You know what the problem is? KSA was never a Western colony. The House of Saud was not put in power by either the West nor East. The relationship has an equal footing. Not only that the rule of the House of Saud predates the foundation of many if not most of the Western nation states too, including that of the US itself. There is also the idea of KSA (being home to Makkah and Madinah) being different. You just don't invade it as you invade some other random Muslim country. There is size, geography and much more involved as well.
The clever thing that they have done (House of Saud regime) is that they have not been foolish enough to combat the US directly as that is a war that no country or regime can win. But if you ask the average social-liberal, atheist, left-democratic voter, KSA has done tremendous harm to the West and the US. Every nationalist in Europe does not name Turkey, Iran, Pakistan or any other Muslim country as a threat but KSA. The same country that has and funds most mosques in the West, Arabic learning and cultural centers etc. Basically being the champion of Islam. A religion and culture that is seen by that lot as "the enemy" nowadays. You doubt me? Go visit any nationalistic European forum and see for yourself.
Do you think that this lots biggest wet dream is to attack Iran or nuke Makkah and Madinah? Their enemy is KSA and the Arab world. The originators. Not Indonesia or Gambia. Don't have illusions. Hence the constant propaganda against KSA.
Also Salman, "right now" makes no sense. There has been some kind of cooperation since Ibn Saud and Roosevelt met at the height of WW2 and formally in 1945 when some deals where made.
Not needed. Each Arab country should just have nationalistic, strong, bold and visionary leaders that make the necessary economic reforms, strengthen the state apparatus (military, police, intelligence, security) while at the same time investing in education (KSA is investing almost 10% of its budget on education, the global average is almost 3 times less), science, infrastructure, projects that will benefit the people such as national parks, industrial cities, tourist cities etc.
Combat radicals, reform idiotic "Islamic laws" that have been corrupted by clergy, implement a tolerant Islam but at the same time no Western neo-liberal nonsense that will destroy Arab culture etc. Give rights to women but don't turn them into what we see in Europe. A healthy balance that Arab culture (with or without Islam) usually results in but likewise the influence of Islam.
Then political reforms, more "freedom" and such snowflake visions can be slowly implanted as already seen in KSA where the remaining remnant of old laws (guardianship) is openly talked about as being necessary to reform or remove. All this and obviously combating corruption. Even if MbS is corrupt (he probably is to a degree although he probably does not need to be so that might be an empty claim from my part) it is better that a select few are corrupt than 1000's hence his crackdown, even if largely symbolic and not hitting himself, surely gave the needed message as well the needed results in terms of the state taking that money. A bit like in China. Everyone knows that the top politicians there are corrupt but at least there is not an entire elite that is corrupt to the core like in say Russia, in particular pre-Putin.
Sumer! Southern Iraq, Kuwait and Northern KSA. Origin of Sumerians? Eastern Province of KSA. Where did the Sumerians claim to come from according to their own Epic of Gilgamesh (earliest written poem in the world)? Dilmun. Where was/is Dilmun's origin? Eastern Province/Bahrain etc. BTW most of Southern Iraq was underwater under the era of Sumerians and just before. Anyway this is not only about Sumerians. There are many pre-civilizaiton cultures in Arabia and the Arab world that are the oldest in their field and most advanced of their time. Example the Nutafian culture that gave birth to farming and domestication of animals. Modern-day Saudi Arabians cluster most with Natufian mummies of Southern Levant as confirmed by DNA. Posted it many times here.
View attachment 564387
Ubaid Period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period
First humans that migrated outside of Africa (Horn of Africa) reached Arabia as well. Every non-African descends from those people who lived in Arabia for 1000's of years.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37408014
https://theconversation.com/our-fos...ts-to-earlier-human-migration-in-arabia-94670
Earliest hominin migrations into the Arabian Peninsula required no novel adaptations
New study provides earliest evidence for hominins in ‘Green Arabia’ between 500,000 and 300,000 years ago alongside direct environmental data indicating productive, relatively humid grasslands
October 29, 2018
https://www.shh.mpg.de/1101697/hominin-migrations-into-green-arabia
Anyone that doubts the incredible depth and history of this region is an ignorant.
As for the Balkan I think the Turks have strong influence on the sufis while the saudis on the other hand have strong ties with the Salafi movementKSA is more influential than Turkey. Even in tiny Balkans which might be the only area of the Muslim world were Arabs have traditionally been less influence than Turkey, KSA has tremendous influence in Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo etc. Our religious and cultural clout in the Arab and Islamic world has no competitors. Our depth and ties in relations with China and Russia (combined) is also matched by very few if any Muslim countries. So-called mighty Erdogan was negotiating with Russia for the S-400 for years if not months. KSA did a deal with Russia within 1 single visit. Without any boosting or much media attention.
How can KSA make a deal with Russia (S-400) and other strategic weapons (that are never sold to US-allies or pro-Western countries) without any fuss from the US, work extremely closely with China on our ballistic missile program (they already sold us a very large number of various missiles that are able to carry nuclear weapons and that was 35 years ago) while we speak, extract uranium for internal use within KSA (jointly) while we speak, US-enemies like China and Russia are openly competing to build nuclear reactors inside KSA, KSA openly defying the offers of the US on this front that would prevent us from using our own uranium as nuclear fuel = potentially building the bomb if we want to) etc.
9/11 that many in the US blames KSA (regime for), openly supporting the Iraqi resistance that killed 1000's of US soldiers across the border (just across the border).
I mean is there something I don't understand about supposedly being the "mighty puppet" that PDF trolls here are barking about 24/7?
It's not about KSA being some superpower (it is not) but it makes you think.
That is very impressive as we all know. All within 4 years only.
Anyway, as I wrote extensively prior in this thread I find it laughable that some users reduce it to money and wealth alone. I have given plenty of examples that put that theory to bed yet it seems like I am speaking (we, dare I say) to deaf ears.
But it is the growth of non-oil revenues that stands out in Saudi Arabia’s 2019 budget announcement. In 2014, non-oil earnings worth $33.9bn (SAR127bn) contributed 12% to Saudi Arabia’s total revenue, and this number has surged to 32% in 2018, when the corresponding figure is valued at $76.5bn.
House of Saud sweethearts of the West?
Name me a single country that is supposedly "allied" with the West that has more propaganda thrown at them?
You know what the problem is? KSA was never a Western colony. The House of Saud was not put in power by either the West nor East. The relationship has an equal footing. Not only that the rule of the House of Saud predates the foundation of many if not most of the Western nation states too, including that of the US itself. There is also the idea of KSA (being home to Makkah and Madinah) being different. You just don't invade it as you invade some other random Muslim country. There is size, geography and much more involved as well.
The clever thing that they have done (House of Saud regime) is that they have not been foolish enough to combat the US directly as that is a war that no country or regime can win. But if you ask the average social-liberal, atheist, left-democratic voter, KSA has done tremendous harm to the West and the US. Every nationalist in Europe does not name Turkey, Iran, Pakistan or any other Muslim country as a threat but KSA. The same country that has and funds most mosques in the West, Arabic learning and cultural centers etc. Basically being the champion of Islam. A religion and culture that is seen by that lot as "the enemy" nowadays. You doubt me? Go visit any nationalistic European forum and see for yourself.
Do you think that this lots biggest wet dream is to attack Iran or nuke Makkah and Madinah? Their enemy is KSA and the Arab world. The originators. Not Indonesia or Gambia. Don't have illusions. Hence the constant propaganda against KSA.
Also Salman, "right now" makes no sense. There has been some kind of cooperation since Ibn Saud and Roosevelt met at the height of WW2 and formally in 1945 when some deals where made.
Not needed. Each Arab country should just have nationalistic, strong, bold and visionary leaders that make the necessary economic reforms, strengthen the state apparatus (military, police, intelligence, security) while at the same time investing in education (KSA is investing almost 10% of its budget on education, the global average is almost 3 times less), science, infrastructure, projects that will benefit the people such as national parks, industrial cities, tourist cities etc.
Combat radicals, reform idiotic "Islamic laws" that have been corrupted by clergy, implement a tolerant Islam but at the same time no Western neo-liberal nonsense that will destroy Arab culture etc. Give rights to women but don't turn them into what we see in Europe. A healthy balance that Arab culture (with or without Islam) usually results in but likewise the influence of Islam.
Then political reforms, more "freedom" and such snowflake visions can be slowly implanted as already seen in KSA where the remaining remnant of old laws (guardianship) is openly talked about as being necessary to reform or remove. All this and obviously combating corruption. Even if MbS is corrupt (he probably is to a degree although he probably does not need to be so that might be an empty claim from my part) it is better that a select few are corrupt than 1000's hence his crackdown, even if largely symbolic and not hitting himself, surely gave the needed message as well the needed results in terms of the state taking that money. A bit like in China. Everyone knows that the top politicians there are corrupt but at least there is not an entire elite that is corrupt to the core like in say Russia, in particular pre-Putin.
Sumer! Southern Iraq, Kuwait and Northern KSA. Origin of Sumerians? Eastern Province of KSA. Where did the Sumerians claim to come from according to their own Epic of Gilgamesh (earliest written poem in the world)? Dilmun. Where was/is Dilmun's origin? Eastern Province/Bahrain etc. BTW most of Southern Iraq was underwater under the era of Sumerians and just before. Anyway this is not only about Sumerians. There are many pre-civilizaiton cultures in Arabia and the Arab world that are the oldest in their field and most advanced of their time. Example the Nutafian culture that gave birth to farming and domestication of animals. Modern-day Saudi Arabians cluster most with Natufian mummies of Southern Levant as confirmed by DNA. Posted it many times here.
View attachment 564387
Ubaid Period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period
First humans that migrated outside of Africa (Horn of Africa) reached Arabia as well. Every non-African descends from those people who lived in Arabia for 1000's of years.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37408014
https://theconversation.com/our-fos...ts-to-earlier-human-migration-in-arabia-94670
Earliest hominin migrations into the Arabian Peninsula required no novel adaptations
New study provides earliest evidence for hominins in ‘Green Arabia’ between 500,000 and 300,000 years ago alongside direct environmental data indicating productive, relatively humid grasslands
October 29, 2018
https://www.shh.mpg.de/1101697/hominin-migrations-into-green-arabia
Anyone that doubts the incredible depth and history of this region is an ignorant.
Indeed I agree with you but for Sufism I think it came from my religion and from the Greek philosophy
Mandaeasim
Yes, of course. He who thinks oil has no leverage is a fool. Indeed oil is one of the most potent leverages in the modern world. If there was no oil KSA would be slightly better then Somalia and would be living off the hajj industry and exporting labour like we do.
