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What is beyond the physical Line?

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What is beyong the physical Line?
+ - 15:45, August 12, 2009
What is beyond the physical Line? - People's Daily Online

By Li Hongmei, People's Daily Online

First, the sore point of contention between China and India is not the one rising along the border line, as assumed by people with little sense of history, but the widely divergent positions of the two countries towards the line, or the so-called MacMahon Line, named by the British General MacMahon as a result of the predatory and imperialist imposition of the British government in the year 1914, when China was weak, divided and under the domination of foreign imperialist powers.

In history, however, no Chinese government has ever accepted the MacMahon Line, nor did even the Imperial Government of China in 1914. The Chiang-Kai-Shek government was forced to agree to it, in that his clique was then nothing but a tool of the U.S. power. But the then U.S., as well as the British imperialists, who did draw the line, dared not to occupy in actual deeds the territories of China to the south of 'MacMahon Line', as the aggressive Nehru government did.

Evidence accumulated over years has throw it into a sharp relief that Nehru government, in the early years of Indian independence, not only took over the legacy of British imperialist strategic perceptions of security, but turned out even more arrogant and un-rational on boundary issues than the British Raj, interfering many times in China's Tibet affairs.

As a result of Nehru's unceasing 'forward policy' after occupying further Tawang and other Chinese territories to the south of 'MacMahon Line', and India's provocative actions in an attempt to extrude Chinese army out of all the Chinese territory it claimed, in late 1962, China-India border war broke out, making breach of the peace and tranquility across the whole border areas and, with the fallout of Indian troops beating a retreat and in the following days India embarking on intensive arming which contributes to a long-term confrontation between the two countries, a huge unnecessary waste of manpower and material resources to both sides.

What lies behind the aggressive attitude of the Nehru government was the then imperialist world, in particular, the U.S. would like nothing better than to see the two principal Asian powers locked in military combat, shedding blood and absorbing resources and energies of millions which could otherwise have been used to construct a strong and promising Asia. Even today, some Western powers still choose to side with the right-wing extremist elements in India as against China on the decades-long border disputes. Their intention of doing so is abundantly clear to the peace-loving people either in China or in India.

Back to 'MacMahon Line', then and now, no sovereign state would abide by the border line and treaty artificially created and imposed upon it by powerful hands. Let us suppose that if a general of a colonialist power, by force of arms, succeeded in subjugating the North American continent and on that basis had artificially drawn a border line between the U.S. and Canada; and if, supposing further, the boundary line demarcated by the general in question included, with the tilt going to the favor of Canada, parts of Buffalo, Detroit, Seattle, and some adjoining area, would a sovereign Washington government readily agree to the Line?

All we have to do with the above analogy is to just change the name to suit the case in discussion. In truth, both the Chinese government and people have consistently regarded the border line and relevant treaties dictated by the then colonialist power as illegal, null and void.

Thanks to the late Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi' historic visit to China in 1988, Sino-India relations have since restored to normality gradually. But it should be noted that, in terms of populations, sizes, economic scales and the roles played in the contemporary world both by China and India, the bilateral cooperation is still far from reaching the level it should be. Border dispute aside, what else is hindering Sino-Indian relations from developing further and in depth? The answer is, perhaps, the theory of 'China threat', and the mentality of cut-throat competition thereupon incurred, also artificially hyped up but deeply-seated in the minds of many Indians.

Even today, there still are a considerable number of politician officials, military figures and think tanks in India who have not liberated their minds from the shadows of the misunderstanding related to the 1962 war and some even still adhering to the strategic perception of security prevailing in the colonial times, counting China as a threat or a potential adversary. The Indian Air Force chief has said China poses a more real and potent threat than Pakistan. Some Indian media go so far as to predict by citing some political figures that there will be another war between the two Asian giants within the year 2012.

Groundless clamors of the kind would possibly bring about the malign consequences even worse than India's boosting forces along the border with the deployment of two army divisions and a squadron of top-of-the-line Sukhoi Su-30 MKI warplanes. In response, China stands in readiness to take defensive actions.

Fortunately, the sober-minded people on both sides would prefer to avoid being dragged down by the past. Instead, they have been making every effort to achieve a reasonable and just settlement of the territory in dispute and turn to a broader cooperation gearing to future.

During the just concluded 13th China-India border talks held in New Delhi, both sides agreed to press ahead with the framework negotiations in accordance with the agreed political parameters and guiding principles in an effort to seek for a fair and reasonable solution acceptable to both. Although a substantive breakthrough is yet to be made, at least, a glimpse of light looms at the end of the tunnel.

As a matter of fact, China and India enjoy a long history of friendly interactions and a fine tradition of learning from each other, both being the densely populated nations and both suffering from imperialist and colonialist aggression and exploitation. The improved Sino-India ties with a more comprehensive cooperation will not merely do good to them both, but benefit the entire Asia. The day will come when the misunderstanding shrouding them is thoroughly dispersed, which is decided by something beyond the border line.
 
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I like to discuss more but now i am preparing my self for healthy ,result orieanted and coclusive debate
 
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The author of the article would have sounded more balanced if he had also mentioned the military co-operation between China and India's arch enemy, Pakistan. Especially the role China played in Pakistan's acquisition of Nuclear weapons and long range missiles and the reasons for China doing so.
From Indians PoV, Chinas anti-India activities is not only limited to the issue of McMohan line, but more importantly the China-Pakistan military nexus.
 
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The author of the article would have sounded more balanced if he had also mentioned the military co-operation between China and India's arch enemy, Pakistan. Especially the role China played in Pakistan's acquisition of Nuclear weapons and long range missiles and the reasons for China doing so.
From Indians PoV, Chinas anti-India activities is not only limited to the issue of McMohan line, but more importantly the China-Pakistan military nexus.

Mr. luoshan; The reason i post this thread is for good will sake.

Whether you can agree or disagree, this article sounds pretty

resonable compare to those from India media.

At least, it might serve a purpose to give insight some of the

problems between China and India could possible be fix.

:cheers::pakistan::china:
 
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Your name should be Mr.bright because Grey not sound good.

The above artical is very nice and very positive but on the other side i have many issue's which is not included, may be its obvious because its your news paper.
I was recently reading a magzine in which i read that one of the mainstream chineese news paper publish list of 100 people list who are very helpful to make china a modern china.I got amaged that Pandit Jawahar lal nehru and Guru Rabinder nath tagore has listed on that list.So that it's Positive sign but in this article nehru is aggresive. So why nehru is list on 100 great people list who helped china to a great nation ?
so i have my views and author reviews but i will not go furthor but some point i want to clear.

1.Indians do not want to talk much and listen about thier Leader.We think its our internal matter and you know it because you have seen many indian members in this forum.
2.As what i am reading since my childhood that Nehru is the first person who told to china that Tibbet is yours its not buffer state, its a china state but give them their relgious freedom.If you really know, then you will see china did not give freedom of religious mater to tibbet earlier but later china gives all freedom of religious mater to tibbet. So if i am reading here that nehru is aggresive i will not agree.

3.In our religious books and even Chanakya quoted that
its better to have inteligent enemy than foolish enemy.
i appreciate china,atleast china is not religious psycho.

4. China - India relation is diferent is diferent than Pak- India. Pak- india has religious input other hand china-india has economic input on their issue's
india support that tibbet is china's state but china not agree on Arunachal state .
India also asked to Aksai chin.

So that After all there is many disputed area from both side but atlest both country not teasing as well and doing well .Every country has these type of issue's, we are not alone.If both oldest and live civilization think that they are very inteligent as all indian and chineese think, then we should solve our issue's peacefully wheather it will take 100 years.
 
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Mr. luoshan; The reason i post this thread is for good will sake.

Whether you can agree or disagree, this article sounds pretty

resonable compare to those from India media.

At least, it might serve a purpose to give insight some of the

problems between China and India could possible be fix.

:cheers::pakistan::china:

I don't know how the article is supposed to generate goodwill between India and China?
Actions speak louder than words. Whenever Pakistan does nuclear blackmail against India, Indians see Chinese long range nuclear tipped warheads pointed at it. The hand holding the gun and the fingers pulling the trigger may be Pakistani, but the guy and the bullet is given by Chinese.
 
.
Your name should be Mr.bright because Grey not sound good.

The above artical is very nice and very positive but on the other side i have many issue's which is not included, may be its obvious because its your news paper.
I was recently reading a magzine in which i read that one of the mainstream chineese news paper publish list of 100 people list who are very helpful to make china a modern china.I got amaged that Pandit Jawahar lal nehru and Guru Rabinder nath tagore has listed on that list.So that it's Positive sign but in this article nehru is aggresive. So why nehru is list on 100 great people list who helped china to a great nation ?
so i have my views and author reviews but i will not go furthor but some point i want to clear.

1.Indians do not want to talk much and listen about thier Leader.We think its our internal matter and you know it because you have seen many indian members in this forum.
2.As what i am reading since my childhood that Nehru is the first person who told to china that Tibbet is yours its not buffer state, its a china state but give them their relgious freedom.If you really know, then you will see china did not give freedom of religious mater to tibbet earlier but later china gives all freedom of religious mater to tibbet. So if i am reading here that nehru is aggresive i will not agree.

3.In our religious books and even Chanakya quoted that
its better to have inteligent enemy than foolish enemy.
i appreciate china,atleast china is not religious psycho.

4. China - India relation is diferent is diferent than Pak- India. Pak- india has religious input other hand china-india has economic input on their issue's
india support that tibbet is china's state but china not agree on Arunachal state .
India also asked to Aksai chin.

So that After all there is many disputed area from both side but atlest both country not teasing as well and doing well .Every country has these type of issue's, we are not alone.If both oldest and live civilization think that they are very inteligent as all indian and chineese think, then we should solve our issue's peacefully wheather it will take 100 years.

May be you should read this from Rediff.com

The Rediff Special/ Neville Maxwell
No account of the 1962 war would be complete without Neville Maxwell's authoritative analysis. Which is why we are reprinting this article which was run on rediff in June last year.

After the 1962 war, the Indian Army commissioned Lieutenant General Henderson Brooks and Brigadier P S Bhagat to study the debacle. As is wont in India, their report was never made public and lies buried in the government archives. But some experts have managed to piece together the contents of the report. One such person is Neville Maxwell, who has studied the 1962 war in depth.

In the article that follows, Indians will be shocked to discover that, when China crushed India in 1962, the fault lay at India, or more specifically, at Jawaharlal Nehru and his clique's doorsteps. It was a hopelessly ill-prepared Indian Army that provoked China on orders emanating from Delhi, and paid the price for its misadventure in men, money and national humiliation.

rediff.com: rediff.com Special: Who was to blame for the 1962 war? Was it India or China who initiated the conflict?

:smitten::pakistan::china:
 
.
I don't know how the article is supposed to generate goodwill between India and China?
Actions speak louder than words. Whenever Pakistan does nuclear blackmail against India, Indians see Chinese long range nuclear tipped warheads pointed at it. The hand holding the gun and the fingers pulling the trigger may be Pakistani, but the guy and the bullet is given by Chinese.

This is the reason why India can't solve problems with her neighbour;

This article was between China-India relationship and problems,

And we suppose to discus regarding those issues;

But instead you raise some more issues thats had nothing to do with

this article.

Mr. loushan; as i mention before, no need to start a flame bait post,

if you have no real purpose for a heathy debate.

P.S. If you looking for a flame war, you might got the wrong person.

:smitten::pakistan::china:
 
.
I don't know how the article is supposed to generate goodwill between India and China?
Actions speak louder than words. Whenever Pakistan does nuclear blackmail against India, Indians see Chinese long range nuclear tipped warheads pointed at it. The hand holding the gun and the fingers pulling the trigger may be Pakistani, but the guy and the bullet is given by Chinese.
Maybe that's because Indians are delusional.Buddy let me put it this way to you, the bullets and bombs are going to hurt you regardless of their origin.Now you should severe your relations with Germany for providing us subs, France for providing us fighters and subs, USA well for most of the artillery, air force jets and other weaponry..Sweden for selling us AWACS, Brazil for selling us anti radiation missiles, Ukraine for tanks engine refuelers, Russia for selling us jet engines, Turkey for selling us simulators and other misc military items etc..Pakistan is a sovereign nation and other countries will sell it weapons whether you like it or not.Wake up, the world does not revolve around India only and the day you decided to explode the so called Smiling Buddha it was obvious that Pakistan would be a nuclear power one way or another.
 
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Maybe that's because Indians are delusional.Buddy let me put it this way to you, the bullets and bombs are going to hurt you regardless of their origin.Now you should severe your relations with Germany for providing us subs, France for providing us fighters and subs, USA well for most of the artillery, air force jets and other weaponry..Sweden for selling us AWACS, Brazil for selling us anti radiation missiles, Ukraine for tanks engine refuelers, Russia for selling us jet engines, Turkey for selling us simulators and other misc military items etc..Pakistan is a sovereign nation and other countries will sell it weapons whether you like it or not.

Yeah.. true.
You cannot compare trading of conventional weapons/equipment with illegal proliferation of WMD's.
 
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This is the reason why India can't solve problems with her neighbour;

This article was between China-India relationship and problems,

And we suppose to discus regarding those issues;

But instead you raise some more issues thats had nothing to do with

this article.

Mr. loushan; as i mention before, no need to start a flame bait post,

if you have no real purpose for a heathy debate.

P.S. If you looking for a flame war, you might got the wrong person.

:smitten::pakistan::china:

Yeah.. its too bad India has such problematic neighbors.
The article is about India-China relationship. Chinas proliferation of Nuclear weapons and long range missiles to Pakistan is an important element in that relationship. The author of the article conveniently skips it to show China has all the good intentions and India as the spoiler in the relationship, when infact its China who has muddied the waters.
1962 was 47 years ago, and most Indians have forgotten it as a shameful past. But the M11 and M18 missiles with Chinese designed Nuclear warheads pointed at India from Pakistan pose a clear and present threat to India. How can Indians ignore this important fact when Chinese talk about forgetting the past and move forward, when their past actions (maybe still present actions) are still hurting India?
 
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Yeah.. its too bad India has such problematic neighbors.
The article is about India-China relationship. Chinas proliferation of Nuclear weapons and long range missiles to Pakistan is an important element in that relationship. The author of the article conveniently skips it to show China has all the good intentions and India as the spoiler in the relationship, when infact its China who has muddied the waters.
1962 was 47 years ago, and most Indians have forgotten it as a shameful past. But the M11 and M18 missiles with Chinese designed Nuclear warheads pointed at India from Pakistan pose a clear and present threat to India. How can Indians ignore this important fact when Chinese talk about forgetting the past and move forward, when their past actions (maybe still present actions) are still hurting India?

This thread is abt China-India border issue. It has nothing to do with Pakistan nuclear status. People want to debate the border issue to find the root cause and possible solution to bridge the gap but you are muddling waters here :devil:

If you want to talk abt Pakistan Nuclear warheads please open another thread. Oh, and don't act like innocent as if India don't have Nuclear warheads aiming at Pakistan.
 
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This thread is abt China-India border issue. It has nothing to do with Pakistan nuclear status. People want to debate the border issue to find the root cause and possible solution to bridge the gap but you are muddling waters here :devil:

If you want to talk abt Pakistan Nuclear warheads please open another thread. Oh, and don't act like innocent as if India don't have Nuclear warheads aiming at Pakistan.

Nope. The OP article is about India-China relationship. So all aspects of that relationships needs to be addressed. The border issue is only a small part of the problem. The China-Pakistan overt and covert nuclear and missile technology proliferation is big area of concern for India.
 
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The deal offered by China was to make the status quo permanent with minor changes...meaning that Indian forsake all claims in the west while the Chinese would do the same in the east,(ie AP). The reason I believe it fell thro was China insisted on getting Tawang and certain surrounding areas along with some area near the Silguri corridor which India could not accept. Personally I feel this border dispute can be easily cleared up.
 
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May be you should read this from Rediff.com

The Rediff Special/ Neville Maxwell
No account of the 1962 war would be complete without Neville Maxwell's authoritative analysis. Which is why we are reprinting this article which was run on rediff in June last year.

After the 1962 war, the Indian Army commissioned Lieutenant General Henderson Brooks and Brigadier P S Bhagat to study the debacle. As is wont in India, their report was never made public and lies buried in the government archives. But some experts have managed to piece together the contents of the report. One such person is Neville Maxwell, who has studied the 1962 war in depth.

In the article that follows, Indians will be shocked to discover that, when China crushed India in 1962, the fault lay at India, or more specifically, at Jawaharlal Nehru and his clique's doorsteps. It was a hopelessly ill-prepared Indian Army that provoked China on orders emanating from Delhi, and paid the price for its misadventure in men, money and national humiliation.

rediff.com: rediff.com Special: Who was to blame for the 1962 war? Was it India or China who initiated the conflict?

:smitten::pakistan::china:

Answer lied in your post, even indian army personel does not have access to that report then how can comman people know exact about 1962 war.On the other side political decesion made before 1962 and after 1962 china war is available.My previous post is on that behalf but no one will agree that nehru is agressive on china, if he allowed china to take controle of tibbet.indian can not agree until official report not published.One side result will not be accepted
 
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