What INSAS has really achieved after 15 years & what its future

[Sergi]

There are no M-16s in the Indian Army.

Para used AK,VZ,Insas etc before.

Really ??? Then why the hell anyone buy M-4 after TAR ??? I was under impression M-16 was with our SFs and as a upgrade we go for M-4.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Really ??? Then why the hell anyone buy M-4 after TAR ??? I was under impression M-16 was with our SFs and as a upgrade we go for M-4.

I have the same question...We never used M-16!

You can search the entire cyber world but you wont find a single pic of our soldier with an M-16.

 

[Sergi]

I have the same question...We never used M-16!

You can search the entire cyber world but you wont find a single pic of our soldier with an M-16.

I see M-4 pic this year that too in SF thread

It ought to have some explanation. May be we are missing some piece of information on this or MoD just fancy to try US weapons

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I see M-4 pic this year that too in SF thread

It ought to have some explanation. May be we are missing some piece of information on this or MoD just fancy to try US weapons

Either you can believe me or you can keep searching for it and never find one.

BTW theres no crteria that you got to own a M-16 in order to book a M4...M4 was bought after IA SOFs trained with US SOFs..and you can even check out Wiki which is a bible for some.

Para Commandos (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Abingdonboy]

Guys the IA SF did use the M4 before they got the Tavors in ~2007. The recen news of more M4s being bought could be an upgraded version and from what I know paratroopers and SF the world over use the M4 as their "jump" weapon due to its compactness and lightweight. This is probably why the IA SF went for more. They are building up a varied and specifi aresenal Meiji they can tailor their weapon choice to the mission at hand and optimise themselves and their capabilities.

 

[Sergi]

Either you can believe me or you can keep searching for it and never find one.

BTW theres no crteria that you got to own a M-16 in order to book a M4...M4 was bought after IA SOFs trained with US SOFs..and you can even check out Wiki which is a bible for some.

Para Commandos (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes there isn't any criteria but it's logical to keep the system same for TRAING and operations.

 

[Sergi]

Guys the IA SF did use the M4 before they got the Tavors in ~2007. The recen news of more M4s being bought could be an upgraded version and from what I know paratroopers and SF the world over use the M4 as their "jump" weapon due to its compactness and lightweight. This is probably why the IA SF went for more. They are building up a varied and specifi aresenal Meiji they can tailor their weapon choice to the mission at hand and optimise themselves and their capabilities.

We aren't counting IA SOF in this. Those guies got what they want directly offself or though black market and we never knew.
So let's keep it to MOD approved day light purchases

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Guys the IA SF did use the M4 before they got the Tavors in ~2007. The recen news of more M4s being bought could be an upgraded version and from what I know paratroopers and SF the world over use the M4 as their "jump" weapon due to its compactness and lightweight. This is probably why the IA SF went for more. They are building up a varied and specifi aresenal Meiji they can tailor their weapon choice to the mission at hand and optimise themselves and their capabilities.

The discussion is that did the IA ever use M-16 and secondly India got its first M-4 in 2008.You can check it on google.the pic everyone gets confused is not of a IA trooper but a Turkish trooper and apart from that no one can really say they have a proof for that.Heres the pic.

And this is the real pic of a IA Paratrooper from late 90s.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

We aren't counting IA SOF in this. Those guies got what they want directly offself or though black market and we never knew.
So let's keep it to MOD approved day light purchases

Dude..IA SOF didnt have the privelage of buying an assualt rifle they want.There has to be some uniformity and moreover it is the IA you are talking about and not Blackwater.

Some things are to be taken in the right way because people are twisting all kinds of facts and making things up just to show how cool Indian SOF are.

There was no sepearte budget before this year...and every stuff purchased had to be shared by all Para units.Therefore it is impossible to hide anything considering the frequent nature of fire-fights in kashmir and the media covering it.

Take out any video any pic and you wont find a M-16 ever or a M-4 before 2008!!!!

 

[Sergi]

Dude..IA SOF didnt have the privelage of buying an assualt rifle they want.There has to be some uniformity and moreover it is the IA you are talking about and not Blackwater.

Some things are to be taken in the right way because people are twisting all kinds of facts and making things up just to show how cool Indian SOF are.

There was no sepearte budget before this year...and every stuff purchased had to be shared by all Para units.Therefore it is impossible to hide anything considering the frequent nature of fire-fights in kashmir and the media covering it.

Take out any video any pic and you wont find a M-16 ever or a M-4 before 2008!!!!

Like I have said before in SF thread
Everything isn't open for everybody. And eveybody is free to belive what he want. No OUGHT at all

But I always wonder about your approach of IA. You expect everything to be transparent. It never is.

I don't know about IA SOF still last few years still my best buddy God into it.

Some things are to be taken in the right way because people are twisting all kinds of facts and making things up just to show how cool Indian SOF are.
Thus isn't something cool bro. Every country has BLACK BACK WATER. It's on you how long your sight reach.

There was any Open budgetary arrangement for SFF ever. And they were never acknowledged publicly before last 2/3 decades. surely it work as Black back waters

We have discussed this to death and we didn't agree there. So let's leave it here as you are not goings to accept it and I can't prove it with any see able link/video or proof. So simple let's drop this topic

 

[mfreak]

M4A1s as part of a 2008 Foreign Military Sales. M4A1 is used by the Mizoram Armed Police, and Force One of the Mumbai Police.

This is what I found on wiki. Coldhearted Warrior is right I guess.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Like I have said before in SF thread
Everything isn't open for everybody. And eveybody is free to belive what he want. No OUGHT at all

But I always wonder about your approach of IA. You expect everything to be transparent. It never is.

I don't know about IA SOF still last few years still my best buddy God into it.

Some things are to be taken in the right way because people are twisting all kinds of facts and making things up just to show how cool Indian SOF are.
Thus isn't something cool bro. Every country has BLACK BACK WATER. It's on you how long your sight reach.

There was any Open budgetary arrangement for SFF ever. And they were never acknowledged publicly before last 2/3 decades. surely it work as Black back waters

We have discussed this to death and we didn't agree there. So let's leave it here as you are not goings to accept it and I can't prove it with any see able link/video or proof. So simple let's drop this topic

The reason i expect it to be transparent is because it should be atleast for me.I have lived my entire life in Army cantonments and i am a resident of jammu and Kashmir...so i believe if it was there i would have seen it.Like i saw an Uzi long back in the early 2000s and no one believed me then.

Regarding SFF they use Tavor...SG comprises of Para....they have 400 Tavors..wht else do u want to know?

Lastly the things that are secret are the operation,the training and the identities and not the weaponry.I dont see a point in hiding a M4...and you will still be surprised to know that regular Para had Vzs till late 2010 and still have them though in a lesser number.

The only thing i dont like is that this is wrong information...and some people treat this forum as their bible and rely for their knowledge here...you and i can go to Army guys and clear our doubts but what about them?

Moreover you cant call anything as truth unless you have a pic or a link to prove it...I can show you pics of top secret units and operations and you will never see a M4 there..all you see is Aks,Vzs,Tavor or Uzi!!

 

[MilSpec]

OT, Do not underestimate VZ58's , exceptionally accurate and well made ak, In the hands of a trained soldier, nothing can be as deadly in 100-250 yard paradigm.

And there is nothing super special about the m16's or m4's, both from manufacturing and technology standpoint that they are desired by any of groups in IA

 

[Sergi]

The reason i expect it to be transparent is because it should be atleast for me.I have lived my entire life in Army cantonments and i am a resident of jammu and Kashmir...so i believe if it was there i would have seen it.Like i saw an Uzi long back in the early 2000s and no one believed me then.

Regarding SFF they use Tavor...SG comprises of Para....they have 400 Tavors..wht else do u want to know?

Lastly the things that are secret are the operation,the training and the identities and not the weaponry.I dont see a point in hiding a M4...and you will still be surprised to know that regular Para had Vzs till late 2010 and still have them though in a lesser number.

The only thing i dont like is that this is wrong information...and some people treat this forum as their bible and rely for their knowledge here...you and i can go to Army guys and clear our doubts but what about them?

Moreover you cant call anything as truth unless you have a pic or a link to prove it...I can show you pics of top secret units and operations and you will never see a M4 there..all you see is Aks,Vzs,Tavor or Uzi!!

^^^ I didn't object any of it. Do I ???

Entire SFF existed without official recognisation and budget. That was the only point in that argument. And was made due to the Bolded part of your comment.
Like I said before everyone is not supposed to know everything
If we are going by the fact the things we don't see don't exists. I am with you. Agreed.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

^^^ I didn't object any of it. Do I ???

Entire SFF existed without official recognisation and budget. That was the only point in that argument. And was made due to the Bolded part of your comment.
Like I said before everyone is not supposed to know everything
If we are going by the fact the things we don't see don't exists. I am with you. Agreed.

SFF never existed without official recognition.SFF consists of 3 battalions with 1 based in Siachen and the other 2 as counter terror forces which i highly doubt as i feel they have been given the role of countering an attack by China by launching a raid across the border.

What is so secret about them...They took part in 71 war and performed very well then they took part in 84 operation...since then they have been a counter terror force with 1 commando unit based in siachen.The maximum you can say is that they will either be deployed by the RAW or they might be operating in kashmir and here is a picture of them..you may find someone whom you would know in this picture.