What If There's India-Pakistan Nuclear War?

[RiazHaq]

"Isolated" #Pakistan in 3rd #EU-Pakistan Strategic Dialogue - #European External Action Service! http://europa.eu/!hN86Ff via @EU_Commission

The 3rd Session of the EU-Pakistan Strategic Dialogue was held in Brussels on 4 October 2016 between the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy/Vice-President of the European Commission, Federica Mogherini, and Sartaj Aziz, Advisor to the Prime Minister of Pakistan on Foreign Affairs.

The two sides welcomed the continued strengthening of relations between the European Union and Pakistan and agreed to elevate their partnership even further. In this respect, they agreed to work on replacing the Five-Year Engagement Plan, adopted in 2012, with an EU-Pakistan Strategic Engagement Plan. Every effort will be made to finalise the new Engagement Plan by the middle of 2017, for approval by the next EU-Pakistan Summit.

Both sides discussed migration and refugees issues. The Pakistan side underlined the need for addressing the root causes of migration and taking an integrated approach encompassing different aspects of migration. The EU acknowledged the challenges faced by Pakistan in hosting over 3 million refugees and is ready to consider providing additional support, including for their repatriation to Afghanistan in safety and dignity. They agreed to further strengthen cooperation on migration issues, including irregular migration, and reaffirmed their commitment to the continued implementation of the EU-Pakistan Readmission Agreement.

The EU side emphasised its continuing support for democratic institutions, electoral reform, the rule of law, economic development and poverty reduction in Pakistan.

The Pakistan side highlighted the steps taken by the Government of Pakistan for the promotion and protection of human rights, including women, children and minority rights. The EU side welcomed these steps, especially the Human Rights Plan of Action adopted by the Government of Pakistan and its decision to strengthen its human rights institutions. Both sides also took note of the first GSP+ progress report. The EU side encouraged continued efforts towards the effective implementation of key human rights conventions.

The Pakistan side highlighted the improved security situation and its positive impact on economic revival and higher investment in Pakistan. The EU acknowledged the significant efforts by the Government of Pakistan and the sacrifices made in the fight against terrorism and reaffirmed EU’s continued support. Both sides committed to further develop their cooperation on Counter-Terrorism, Disarmament and Non-Proliferation. They also agreed to strengthen dialogue on defence matters, including through EU-Pakistan Staff interactions.

On regional security, the EU encouraged Pakistan to continue its efforts in promoting peace in Afghanistan and appreciated Pakistan's support for a successful outcome of the Brussels Ministerial Conference on Afghanistan on 5 October 2016.

The Pakistan side apprised the EU about recent developments in the region, including the current situation in Kashmir. Noting with concern the recent developments, the EU side underlined the need for resolving disputes through dialogue and constructive engagement.

Both sides agreed to further broaden and deepen cooperation under the new Strategic Engagement Plan and discussed matters related to trade, economy and energy. They also agreed to strengthen cooperation in areas such as climate change, research and higher education. Both sides recognised the importance of mutual cooperation in the field of energy and looked forward to holding the first energy meeting still in 2016.

The next EU-Pakistan Joint Commission, to be held in November in Islamabad, will further enhance the dialogue between the two sides.

 

[AUz]

But aren't there enough Hindu diaspora to carry on their faith?

what about Hindus in Americas and Europe??? Stupidity to the core, there is no religion better than Humanity... Why should some one remember Zia... a useless guy due to whom generations after generations are suffering in Pakistan and world around. Let him rot wherever he is....

Lol, as they say "Dil ki tasali k liye, ye khayal b theek hai Ghalib"

If indian subcontinent is gone, Hinduism as a viable religion goes with it. It'll become like ancient Greek Mythology whereby we'll know the "characters" and myths of Hinduism, but with time its memory will fade away and it'll only stay alive in television and pop culture arts (if that).

ALL sacred places, symbols of Hinduism are in India. It's sacred texts revolve around India and geographic landmarks of the land. ALL the myths, stories, writings, holy festivals etc are in India and involve Indian landmass. Moreover, 98% of Hinduism's followers reside in India.

So if India is gone (hypothetically)---so does the ancient religious mythology known as Hinduism.

There are not even 30 million Hindus outside Indian subcontinent. Also, even for Hindus who are outside India, they need India for their religious imagination as a community. No religion survives in diaspora alone without some tangible axis-mundi (Term used in religious studies. Google it). And Axis-Mundi for Hinduism is India.

Hindus outside India learn their knowledge, practices, history, culture, and sense of community w.r.t Hinduism all from India. Without India, all of that would fade away with few generations over couple of centuries at maximum.

Only faiths are not possible to destroy via military means are Christianity and Islam--because they are the only global faiths (NOT diaspora, but actual global, multi-continental religions having billions across the world with tens upon tens of nations, cultures, countries following them on mass level). Unless there is a mass, all-out nuclear war between all nuclear powers--which ends the humanity as we know it--Islam and Christianity will stay the largest, most global religions impossible to remove via military means.

Religions like Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, etc can be "technically" annihilated via mass murder (Holocaust etc), nuclear war involving two, three nations and so on.

But bottom line is that there's not going to be any conventional war between India and Pakistan, let alone nuclear war. Hell, there wasn't even any actual surgical strike on Pakistan--so lets not waste time by imagining apocalyptic scenarios.

 

[Soumitra]

I am really surprised at the abilities to Pakistanis to bring religion into everything - including nuclear war. You guys seem to be happy that Pakistan is destroyed but Muslims survive. How pathetic is that?

 

[SQ8]

All of you C'iyas need to watch this

@hellfire @Joe Shearer @niaz @Arsalan
These idiots literally have no idea what they propose.

And unlike the US and Russia, we are bloody NEXT DOOR!

 

[Soumitra]

In a first wave of "Strategic Strikes" you will not be able to get off more than 10-15 nukes. You will have to prioritize whether you want to hit civilian centers or Nuclear Silos.

Hititng nuclear silos is difficult as you may not know their positions and we have road and rail mobile missiles. Hitting them will result in low civilian causalities and Pakistan can claim it targeted genuine military target. You also will be able to reduce (not completely stop) India's second strike capability.

If you aim to hit major cities and economic centers then casualities will be very high. However if your aim is to cut off India's Nuclear Command Authority you will not be able to do that. Modi will not be sitting on the porch of 7 Lok Kalyan Marg drinking chai when the war is going on. He will be in an underground nuclear proof bunker directing the forces

Whatever be the targets you will have massive second strikes and Indian nukes will be able to obliterate large areas of Pakistan given its smaller geographical area

 

[AUz]

I am really surprised at the abilities to Pakistanis to bring religion into everything - including nuclear war. You guys seem to be happy that Pakistan is destroyed but Muslims survive. How pathetic is that?

You are stupid. Nobody is bringing religion here. Point is, in order to do something as apocalyptic and suicidal as launching a nuclear first strike on your nuclear-armed neighbor...you need a rationalization of your action that acceptable by the masses. And framing the issue in "Islam vs Hinduism" context helps Pakistan to accept its fate in any scenario where we launch nuclear strikes on India. Therefore, there should be zero doubt in any Indian policy makers mind that if the push does come to shove, Pakistan WILL go ahead and devastate Hindustan from top to bottom by launching strategic nuclear first strikes across major Indian cities, Industrial centers, military installations and so on.

So Indians better stop their war hysteria and learn to live with dignity and peace.

 

[Soumitra]

You are stupid. Nobody is bringing religion here. Point is, in order to do something as apocalyptic and suicidal as launching a nuclear first strike on your nuclear-armed neighbor...you need a rationalization of your action that acceptable by the masses. And framing the issue in "Islam vs Hinduism" context helps Pakistan to accept its fate in any scenario where we launch nuclear strikes on India. Therefore, there should be zero doubt in any Indian policy makers mind that if the push does come to shove, Pakistan WILL go ahead and devastate Hindustan from top to bottom by launching strategic nuclear first strikes across major Indian cities, Industrial centers, military installations and so on.

So Indians better stop their war hysteria and learn to live with dignity and peace.

You could have said India will be destroyed. Why say Hinduism will be destroyed?this is what I am saying about bringing religion into everything

I fail to understand why you equate India with Hinduism. Dont you know there are 180 million Muslims in India. Along with them there are millions of christians, sikhs, buddhists, jains etc.

Let me tell you for Indians it is their country first and religious identity later. It seems opposite to the Pakistanis

PS before you forget it is a muslim who is the father of the Indian Nuclear program and Missile program. So if at all Pakistan will be destroyed by Nuclear attack it will be because of the creations of an Indian Muslim Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam

 

[laphroaig]

@AUz

There are close to 30 million Pravasi Bharatiyas spread across the globe. Push comes to shove they can and will come back and rebuild the motherland.

But if you push us, we will make sure Islam will be wiped off the face of the subcontinent. Clean. For posterity. Have no doubt about that my friend.

We will right a historical wrong. And make sure there is zero desert contaminant on our sacred soil moving forward.

Yeah @Oscar this is for you too buddy. Amrika mein baith kar bachao bachao gaana.

@User @Zibago for you too brothers. Just so we understand each other ....

 

[Manidabest]

well both countries will b destroyed and South Asia will not be a place to live in ... and instead of india and Pakistan many different states will come up based on ethnicity... they will be like nation states...but in any case i dont think any of the country will go for nucleur war at all..

 

[Place Of Space]

wow, even the nuke war could be shot as materials of troll thread.

in my humble opinion, nuclear is not as powerful as Indian mouth carnon.

 

[guyhandz]

Remember what Zia said??

"Pakistan might be completely destroyed, but Muslims will still be there in the world; but with the destruction of India, Hinduism will vanish from the face of this earth."

And this is gonna happen for sure my dear..

What about the Hindus settled in USA, USSR, UK, AUSTRALIA, SOUTH AFRICA, GULF COUNTRIES and other countries... you gonna nuke them also ?

 

[RiazHaq]

Has #India Lost the International Propaganda War on '#SurgicalStrikes'? #Kashmir #UriAttack #Modi #BJP
http://www.thecitizen.in/index.php/...ernational-Propaganda-War-on-Surgical-Strikes


It took New Delhi a few more days to realise that while domestically the BJP and PM Modi had gained in the constituency that was advocating war, and had been feeling demoralised since the terror attack on Pathankot, internationally there seemed to be a major problem. In that the space outside the region was being filled by Pakistan propaganda, with an aggressive outreach launched by the military.

The first signs (that still did not ring any alarm bells in New Delhi) came predictably from the Pakistani media that matched the New Delhi media in decibles, well almost, in propagating that the surgical strikes had not taken place. This was while Indian TV anchors were thumping their chests, joined in victory by ‘experts’ across the border. Similar experts appeared on Pakistan TV to insist that no such strikes could have happened, and their Army had to be believed. Nationalism thus was evoked by both sides to insist that their respective governments and militaries were right.

Pakistan took a second step rather quickly. It organised a visit by a huge contingent of international reporters to one of the locations that India said it had hit. And just as ‘sources’ here were dismissing this as ‘the usual propaganda by the Pakistanis’ the big international media started coming out with stories and reports almost supporting Islamabad’s claims.

A CNN report insisted that it had spoken to villagers at the spot and no such strikes were reported.

This was followed by a detailed report by a journalist who carries considerable credibility in New Delhi, as well as Pakistan and Afghanistan Pamela Constable who wrote for the Washington Post: Villagers in three areas along the de facto border between Indian- and Pakistani-controlled Kashmir said this past week that they had fled their homes in fear after intense shelling and firing from the Indian side but that they did not believe India’s claim Thursday that it had sent armed troops to conduct late-night “surgical strikes” on militant targets there.

In several dozen interviews, residents of the Bhimber, Chamb and Sahmani districts adjoining the Line of Control said they had been jarred from sleep by the barrage of firepower Wednesday. But none said they had seen or heard anything that supported India’s claim that it carried out cross-border strikes on several staging areas for militant groups that left “double digits” of militants dead.”

These reports in the international media have been brought the Indian narrative of the cross border surgical strikes into question in what appears to be a snowball impact. In fact The Diplomat in an article by Shawn Snow has carried a report questioning India’s military capabilities with the headline “Is India Capable of a Surgical Strike in Pakistan Controlled Kashmir? A surgical strike operation by Indian forces begs the question of the military’s capability to launch such an attack.”

Constable further added in her report based largely on interviews with villagers in the area, “Under domestic pressure to retaliate, the government of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced it had conducted a five-hour overnight paramilitary attack on several suspected terrorist camps, killing scores. Pakistan’s military claimed that it killed eight Indian soldiers in retaliatory fire and that two of its men had died when India shelled a border post in Sahmani.

A cross-border strike by India would be the first major breach of the Line of Control it has publicly acknowledged in years of hostile but cautious relations with Pakistan. In the past it has avoided an overt provocation that could risk a wider conflict, while accusing Pakistan of harboring and supporting terrorist groups.”

A Full-Blown Guerilla War Is Developing In #Kashmir that #Army Can Not Fight: Ex #India Justice Markandey Katju: http://www.outlookindia.com/website...-developing-in-kashmir-markandey-katju/297242

I think the people of India, the government of India, and the Indian army must now be told the truth: a full-blown guerilla war, still in its nascent stage , is fast developing in Kashmir, and we are being misled by our jingoistic media having anchors whom I call Don Quixote, Lord Haw Haw, and Dr. Goebbels.
The truth is most of the Kashmiri youth have been thoroughly alienated, and are intensely hostile to India.

A guerilla war, to be succesful, must have popular support. "The people are the sea, and we are the fish who swim in them." said a famous Red Army leader in the Chinese revolutionary war. Without popular support, a guerilla war cannot be long sustained, as Che Guevara realized too late in Bolivia.
But there is definitely popular support of the militants in Kashmir. We canot hide this truth. It is true that not all Kashmiri youth are trained and armed militants (at present only a very small number are). But the sympathies of most of the Kashmiri youth are with the militants, and they will therefore supply information, sanctuary, food, etc to them. The large crowd of lakhs of people in Burhan Wani's funeral has demonstrated this.
To say that all the militants have come across the border is again not correct. A large section of them, like Burhan Wani, are local people, though they are getting weapons from China and Pakistan.
The Kashmiri guerilla war, though still in its nascent stage, is bound to develop rapidly in the days to come, and I may explain why.


I have many relatives who were in the Indian army, and who were posted in Kashmir or in the North-East where there was militancy. They explained to me the psychology of our soldiers.
Suppose a patrol of 10 or 20 of our soldiers is going in some area in Kashmir, and is fired upon by some militants. If in this firing 2 or 3 of our soldiers are killed, the rest of them tend to go crazy, seeking revenge for their fallen comrades.
They may then enter a neighbouring village, thinking it harboured these militants ( and may indeed have), and shoot at innocent civilians, despite all instructions to the contrary from higher authorities.. Sometimes even their officers cannot control them.
Also, a soldier who has stayed in militancy-affected areas for long periods, as many Indian soldiers have to do, is often no longer psychologically normal, expecting death at any moment. Hence he sometimes tends to do crazy things, like firing at civilians.
The American experience in Vietnam testifies to this.

 

[AUz]

You could have said India will be destroyed. Why say Hinduism will be destroyed?this is what I am saying about bringing religion into everything

I fail to understand why you equate India with Hinduism. Dont you know there are 180 million Muslims in India. Along with them there are millions of christians, sikhs, buddhists, jains etc.

Let me tell you for Indians it is their country first and religious identity later. It seems opposite to the Pakistanis

PS before you forget it is a muslim who is the father of the Indian Nuclear program and Missile program. So if at all Pakistan will be destroyed by Nuclear attack it will be because of the creations of an Indian Muslim Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam

Because it helps Pakistan locally to do the acceptable framing for first strike on India. Anyways, I definitely don't want any nuclear war in our region. Nobody does.

It's your responsibility to voice against your pathetic media's war hysteria. You can not fight a conventional war with us without sustaining extreme losses on your military, infrastructure, economy, and population. Neither can we. But we are not the one making fairy tales about surgical strikes and what not to make our gullible people satisfy. It's India's doing (and your poor military is now paying the price of your gimmicks by getting hammered at LoC through our artillery, mortars, and before you know it, there might be another militant attack on you deep inside occupied Kashmir)

 

[Muhammed45]

Nuclear war?
Oh come on guys. It's the most NON-Sense thing you could debate on. There will be no winner after a nuclear war believe me

 

[ali_raza]

india should cool down