What I Discovered From Interviewing Imprisoned ISIS Fighters

[Dubious]

justification

I dont need to justify anything...

We researchers have interest...The one above was interested in:

The research is based on cognitive and moral psychology, exploring when and why humans commit the most extreme sacrifices—including their lives and the lives of their families—for abstract causes, for so-called “sacred values.” Our research tries to determine why people will change their minds about these sacred values, and whether and how they will change their behavior in defending them. We hope to find out how to persuade people to abandon violent pathways, though I am fast losing faith in that possibility in this part of the world.

 

[Spectre]

The answer to the question is screaming out to you. It is up to you to hear and acknowledge it.
.

I do, what is the plausible answer though? Sarthak we had discussions regarding this before too. I agree with your analysis of the cause, the problem - the issue is the solution. Where differences emerge b/w you and I is that in your world - it is a lost case, the solution binary and final. I refuse to believe that - You and I very well know what would follow is a clash, the problem is I have not given up - I still have faith that we can engage, discuss and come up with a political and diplomatic solution.

Yes there will be blood and tears, that is inevitable - what we can do is to minimize the suffering.

Regards

 

[Dubious]

I have not given up - I still have faith that we can engage, discuss and come up with a political and diplomatic solution.

Many have given up it is common human phenomena and it is also the easiest to do and very few think on the other side.....or have the capacity to seek answers and look at the other side of the coin

though I am fast losing faith in that possibility in this part of the world.

People with hope will make changes same as people who have given up find something different...

Being human I do feel for people being forced to do bad, people being pushed to do bad and also people being oppressed enough to end up doing bad...However For me I never justify murder......nothing on the planet can justify murder....

 

[VCheng]

Killing ISIS fighters is a mercy and a duty . They are the weeds of the world. ISIS terrorists have caused severe damage to the image of Islam worldwide and are the child of America. They should be beaten back and completely destroyed.

Justifying IS terrorism will never work. The notion that they will go away if we simply understand what creates them or if we can love them back is patently laughable. Blaming others for the root causes of the collapse of civil society in Middle East is a failed proposition, totally.

 

[Spectre]

Many have given up it is common human phenomena and it is also the easiest to do and very few think on the other side.....or have the capacity to seek answers and look at the other side of the coin


People with hope will make changes same as people who have given up find something different...

Being human I do feel for people being forced to do bad, people being pushed to do bad and also people being oppressed enough to end up doing bad...However For me I never justify murder......nothing on the planet can justify murder....

To empathize is the most important skill in today's world. We all have our perceptions shaped by media, friends, our own sense of morality and culture. The problem is world does not end with us. There will be people whose opinions are are abhorrent to mine, their words blasphemy (using it in non religious sense), their culture alien. My first response would be to convert them, if not then to fight and dominate and if still they don't capitulate then to erase them.

This happened all through the recorded human history. We in S. Asia were dominated, Native Americans were almost erased and made inconsequential, even today such long term primal instinct of hating the other is present in almost all of us. We just have to look at US atrocities in Vietnam - How was it different from ISIS, infact they make ISIS look positively civilized. This would not have been possible without the gross dis-humanization of the Yellow Man.

I just have to look at Godhra Train Burning and Gujrat riots, I just have too look at the partition to see cruelty, barbarity and homicide is not alien to us. This is a part of us.

Lest some people take me for an ISIS apologist - I urge you to empathize - spare a moment to learn, to understand the other side however alien they might seem. Every act of violence is evil and should be condemned and punished but that does not mean you condemn the whole group of people. Similarly one should not justify killing by saying the other side deserved it.

We have got religion for good or bad. We have ISLAM which might seem barbaric, expansionary and violent to many of us. Now what are options?

1. Kill everyone of Billion Muslims just because they don't conform to our world view? As many of the right wing people in many countries would like.

2. Understand they are different, be tolerant, give them space but set firm boundaries so you are not overwhelmed- As the society currently does with varying degree of success.

Lot of our problems we face today are historical in nature - Hitler's Final Solution, Israel - Palestine and the dirty game British Paid, Soviet Intervention in Afghanistan and subsequent support to Mujaheddin by USA. We have to look at the whole context and then form our judgement. Not look at every issue in isolation.

@Akheilos I am sorry I used your post to make many unrelated points, I just felt it needed to be said but didn't require another thread.

 

[VCheng]

To empathize is the most important skill in today's world. We all have our perceptions shaped by media, friends, our own sense of morality and culture. The problem is world does not end with us. There will be people whose opinions are are abhorrent to mine, their words blasphemy (using it in non religious sense), their culture alien. My first response would be to convert them, if not then to fight and dominate and if still they don't capitulate then to erase them.

Empathy does not prevent justice, does it? Do you want such an approach for Taliban or TTP as well?

 

[Spectre]

Empathy does not prevent justice, does it?

What is justice in your opinion? how does it differ from revenge? I believe the answer is empathy which paves way for fairness

 

[VCheng]

What is justice in your opinion? how does it differ from revenge?

Let's step back first. Do you want the same empathic approach towards the Taliban, or the TTP or the Mumbai attackers?

 

[Spectre]

Justifying IS terrorism will never work. The notion that they will go away if we simply understand what creates them or if we can love them back is patently laughable. Blaming others for the root causes of the collapse of civil society in Middle East is a failed proposition, totally.

I agree

 

[bongbang]

This is too late. They had to do their peer campaign way before not to make videos slaughtering western, shia and other minorities. Holding own territories and not attack others and saving minorities. Making news outlets to show their objectives better integrating existing policies which makes sense. This is a messed up scenario.

 

[Spectre]

Let's step back first. Do you want the same empathic approach towards the Taliban, or the TTP or the Mumbai attackers?

As i said, evil should be condemned and Punished and these people are evil - I would give them death punishment.

However what I would do is not let them color my view of Pakistan and the Muslim community at large. I would not kill their family, I would not invade their country.

My point about empathy was a larger point I was making keeping in mind the macro-view, my discussions with @SarthakGanguly and the back-lash which would inevitably follow soon in Europe.

 

[saiyan0321]

Its a good read as it gives us an insight about why did these fighters join Isis and how come Isis is able to recruit all over the world.... In the words of sun tzu ' know your enemy and know yourself and you will never lose' thus we need to understand why was Isis able to spread and create a state that spans across 2 nations...

It is no doubt that war and quests of civil war have resulted in the birth of Isis ... One can even argue that there may not be any Taliban if the USSR did not invade Afghanistan. Wars result in chaos and with various states funding to impose their sympathetic leaders we see various groups rise up...

Now let's take Isis.... Whonis equipping them, where are they selling the oil and if to those private companies then whybhas no action been taken to cut those suppliers and private companies? They are bombing them without cutting of their source of income... Why haven't the US and Russia bombed those oil fields and obliterate them so that ISIS losses a source of income.

However that's in the past. There mist motnne anymore civil war attempts and the world should unite to end ISIS before they become such a strong ideology that it becomes impossible to kill them. Us and Russia should utilize their resources and bomb not only the conflicted Isis areas but also Isis strongholds.

Things like social disorder, illiteracy, poverty and war are production factories for terrorists who will employ the affectees.

In zarb e azb we often cite that the war is not won unless the govt does its part and that partbis giving the areas such development which will end any fork of terror recruitment...

The lesson here is that war on terror has not curbed but spread terrorism. It's out of control now and the world mustbnot repeat such mistakes again... After the destruction of ISIS the western and eastern nations who have waged war must help develop the affected areas otherwise the cycle will keep on going.

Rhe rise of Isis is an alarm bell for the world that things are so bad that a terrorist outfit was able to create its nation ...

I understand why they joined but they all must die... Kill them all and never repeat the actions that led to their rise.

 

[Dubious]

empathize

according to research one who can grasp this is actually more intelligent than the one who can answer IQ questions

Before someone bashes me about research:

Beyond General Intelligence (IQ) and Emotional Intelligence (EQ): The Role of Cultural Intelligence (CQ) on Cross-Border Leadership Effectiveness in a Globalized World
EQ + IQ = Best Leadership Practices for Caring and Successful Schools (schools can also be extrapolated to larger organizations and people)

Its a good read as it gives us an insight about why did these fighters join Isis and how come Isis is able to recruit all over the world.... In the words of sun tzu ' know your enemy and know yourself and you will never lose' thus we need to understand why was Isis able to spread and create a state that spans across 2 nations...

It is no doubt that war and quests of civil war have resulted in the birth of Isis ... One can even argue that there may not be any Taliban if the USSR did not invade Afghanistan. Wars result in chaos and with various states funding to impose their sympathetic leaders we see various groups rise up...

Now let's take Isis.... Whonis equipping them, where are they selling the oil and if to those private companies then whybhas no action been taken to cut those suppliers and private companies? They are bombing them without cutting of their source of income... Why haven't the US and Russia bombed those oil fields and obliterate them so that ISIS losses a source of income.

However that's in the past. There mist motnne anymore civil war attempts and the world should unite to end ISIS before they become such a strong ideology that it becomes impossible to kill them. Us and Russia should utilize their resources and bomb not only the conflicted Isis areas but also Isis strongholds.

Things like social disorder, illiteracy, poverty and war are production factories for terrorists who will employ the affectees.

In zarb e azb we often cite that the war is not won unless the govt does its part and that partbis giving the areas such development which will end any fork of terror recruitment...

The lesson here is that war on terror has not curbed but spread terrorism. It's out of control now and the world mustbnot repeat such mistakes again... After the destruction of ISIS the western and eastern nations who have waged war must help develop the affected areas otherwise the cycle will keep on going.

Rhe rise of Isis is an alarm bell for the world that things are so bad that a terrorist outfit was able to create its nation ...

I understand why they joined but they all must die... Kill them all and never repeat the actions that led to their rise.

Why the hell are you not TT yet?

 

[anant_s]

An illustration of the less-than-total commitment to the cause of the Islamic State by Iraqis came from the Kurdish peshmerga Gen. Aziz Waysi, commander of the elite Zerevani (“Golden”) forces. He relates an overheard conversation between an ISIS fighter on the battleground and his leader, via a walkie-talkie previously confiscated from an ISIS corpse. “My brother is with me, but he is dead, and we are surrounded, we need help at least to take away my brother’s body,” General Waysi heard, and then the reply: “What else could you want? Your brother is in heaven and you are about to be.” This answer wasn’t what the poor surrounded young man was hoping for. “Please come and rescue me,” he said, “That heaven, I don’t want it.” But they didn’t, leaving him to whatever paradise awaited.

Just tells the level to which these young men have been brain washed.
It perhaps is the first article i've read that tells human tragedy side of story within ISIS ranks.

 

[Dubious]

Just tells the level to which these young men have been brain washed.
It perhaps is the first article i've read that tells human tragedy side of story within ISIS ranks.

I have read too many...Gave a terrorism analysis thingy (forgot what its called) of a course a go...nearly went into depression

I understand why they joined but they all must die... Kill them all and never repeat the actions that led to their rise.

ok this part was a shock on me! took time to absorb

Even in Pakistan our army asked them to lay their weapons and allowed those who are not hate filled to blindness to reason and give them some form of (help me here...My brain isnt working)..... helped them basically...