What has Democracy solve for India? Lesson for us.

[ThatDamnGood]

Er sorry...India's democracy is hardly an example for China.

And oh someone need to tell you Communism and Maoism is more alive in India and other part of the world then in China.

That is why 2 million Taiwaneses are living with their family on China.

Twin Tale: Rising China, Japan's setting sun - CNN.com

Actually, its time for us to "assimilate" the best of Japan pop culture and use it to bootstrap soft power projection projects.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Chin Hwang a bit too ruthless but as first emperor his vision still bugs us. To this day, we still build "Great Walls" more often than "Sui Canals". Also, why use the name of what foreigners uses? Among ourselves, it is Zhongguo not Chinguo. Anyway, good time to start training them in elementary mandarin. To this day, so many people can't pronounce Yuan right.

Fair point.

Qin Shi Huang was a bit ruthless I suppose, so maybe the name "China" (derived from Qin) isn't well suited for the purpose.

Zhong guo is a good name. We should get Lao wai to use it as well.

 

[ThatDamnGood]

Fair point.

Qin Shi Huang was a bit ruthless I suppose, so maybe the name "China" (derived from Qin) isn't well suited for the purpose.

Zhong guo is a good name. We should get Lao wai to use it as well.

As you can see, my pinyin, hai...

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

As you can see, my pinyin, hai...

LOL don't worry about it, it was clear what you meant.

As a side note, I don't know how wai guo ren will be able to pronounce Zhong guo hai shi Zhong hua.

Like you said, even major news broadcasters are unable to pronounce the word "Yuan". The English language doesn't have any "tones" as well, which makes it worse.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yeah, wonder why Indians always ignore the fact "Caste-System" which is still practiced in India today, will the "untouchables" able to share the same so-called 'freedom" as you preached? and don't give me the routine reply like the law had abolished "caste-system" while you all knew your "caste"
Democracy+Caste-system=castocracy, when people vote according to caste line and you still got the nerve to lecture us regarding your so-called democracy?


Why don't you just simply claim India is way ahead of China in economy and military wise since China had no transparency as we can fool the whole world eh?

This is solely with regard to your comments about the caste system. Others have already responded, directly or indirectly, and you have a variety of views before you. When considering those, please also consider these.

India's caste system is a ghastly anachronism, and deserves to be eradicated as soon as possible. This has still not been achieved. Its origins and its societal justification do not matter; it was a bad thing for India and for Indians.

Unfortunately, your information is a few years out of date. It is understandable that it will be difficult for you to abandon a fixed propaganda position and embrace reality, but even in what we ourselves thought to be the heartland of caste culture, people have voted clearly and unambiguously against caste politics, and in favour of developmental efficiency.

No doubt that there is a huge distance to go before we achieve China's social equality, which is commendable and of an order acknowledged by the world. The fact remains that caste is an increasingly weak divider of one Indian from another, although it is likely to remain an attribute of identity for a considerable time to come. It will have continuously decreasing influence on public policy, and the signs are clear.

It is unfortunate that these developments have not been brought to your notice, and have, no doubt inadvertently, misled you to arraign India and Indians on weak grounds. All is not lost, however. There is still much to be explored by a creative and inventive prosecutor. There is also a wealth of material which our friends and well-wishers in the neighbourhood, and most particularly your partners in an all-weather friendship, will be only too glad to share with you. I look forward to reading your revised chargesheet.

 

[Merilion]

It is difficult to explain why people like individual freedom. But now that we have tasted it, there is no going back to authoritarian regime( king/dictator/communist rule).

Also, for a country like India which is full of diversity, allowing everybody to participate in decision making process, gives them hope,aspiration and a stake in society.

Also Indian democracy is federal in structure, keeping our diversity in mind.

An Indian will really be surprised to see a chinease does not find it uncomfortable to live in a totalitarian regime, and a chinease will be surprised why Indians like messy democracy which seems direction less.

About chinease being skeptic of democracy, is it because their system delivers better?(Which is most probable reason) Is it because they are told so by the authority?

I am interested to know a north korean view of democracy.

NK is feudal dictatorship for sure, ppl can judge it from it's power transistion: grandpa-->papa-->grandson-->...

but what abt India democracy system? its most dominant politcal party congress's chair doing like a family business: grandgrandpa-->grandma-->papa-->widow of papa(beacuse the grandgrandson was too young at the time?)-->...

I don't know others but this is not a democracy system I can understand.

 

[KS]

NK is feudal dictatorship for sure, ppl can judge it from it's power transistion: grandpa-->papa-->grandson-->...

but what abt India democracy system? its most dominant politcal party congress's chair doing like a family business: grandgrandpa-->grandma-->papa-->widow of papa(beacuse the grandgrandson was too young at the time?)-->...

I don't know others but this is not a democracy system I can understand.

No you are wrong ---- Sure it was 'grandgrandpa-->grandma-->papa-->widow of papa' but what is different and most important is how the respective heirs came into power in NK and India.

In NK it was a mere induction or coronation ceremony without anybody's permission.

But in India (as much as I hate it) the Congress came to power by securing the majority in the Parliament after elections in which the people gave their choice.

So your analogy is specious and completely off mark.

 

[Joe Shearer]

NK is feudal dictatorship for sure, ppl can judge it from it's power transistion: grandpa-->papa-->grandson-->...

but what abt India democracy system? its most dominant politcal party congress's chair doing like a family business: grandgrandpa-->grandma-->papa-->widow of papa(beacuse the grandgrandson was too young at the time?)-->...

I don't know others but this is not a democracy system I can understand.

The schematic that you have presented, grandgrandpa (sic)-->grandma-->papa-->widow of papa (beacuse the grandgrandson (sic) was too young at the time?)-->... is unfortunately neither accurate nor complete. If this is your impression, it is not surprising that the system seems beyond understanding.

To bring the true picture will take some considerable length, and it may bore you and others, therefore it is not being presented here. The best that can be done under the circumstances is to suggest that recent Indian political history, at the centre as well as at the states, may be revisited; it is possible that the missing information will become apparent, and the aspects that surprise you may become easier to understand.

Without any doubt, if you encounter any difficulties in your search, people on this forum will be glad to help.

 

[abrahams]

what have we achieved from democracy

1) we elect whom we want to and we throw them out when we want to
2) we protest whenever and wherever and by whatever means we want
3) our governmental decisons are not made by a single mans whimsical thought
4) we have a fair and open judicial process
5) our mediums of information sharing and communication is liberal
6) all relgions are free to practice whatever and where ever they want
7) we can plan our family as we want
8) etc etc etc

 

[Brotherhood]

This is solely with regard to your comments about the caste system. Others have already responded, directly or indirectly, and you have a variety of views before you. When considering those, please also consider these.

India's caste system is a ghastly anachronism, and deserves to be eradicated as soon as possible. This has still not been achieved. Its origins and its societal justification do not matter; it was a bad thing for India and for Indians.

Unfortunately, your information is a few years out of date. It is understandable that it will be difficult for you to abandon a fixed propaganda position and embrace reality, but even in what we ourselves thought to be the heartland of caste culture, people have voted clearly and unambiguously against caste politics, and in favour of developmental efficiency.

No doubt that there is a huge distance to go before we achieve China's social equality, which is commendable and of an order acknowledged by the world. The fact remains that caste is an increasingly weak divider of one Indian from another, although it is likely to remain an attribute of identity for a considerable time to come. It will have continuously decreasing influence on public policy, and the signs are clear.

It is unfortunate that these developments have not been brought to your notice, and have, no doubt inadvertently, misled you to arraign India and Indians on weak grounds. All is not lost, however. There is still much to be explored by a creative and inventive prosecutor. There is also a wealth of material which our friends and well-wishers in the neighbourhood, and most particularly your partners in an all-weather friendship, will be only too glad to share with you. I look forward to reading your revised chargesheet.

Joe, don't take my post too seriously, its just a response to the few posters above mine, no doubt, i agreed i may be a little out-dated regarding do most Indians vote according to caste line. But i did not claim that for no reason though, here is an article you might want to take a look at.

Kumar's fate in the election in Bihar, a six-stage vote that began last month and ends Saturday, will test whether delivering development can also deliver votes in a region long dominated by caste-based politics. The outcome is being closely watched across India, a rising regional power that is plagued by corruption, poverty, a lack of infrastructure and raft of other development problems.

"If he loses, it will show that good governance is thankless," said Shaibal Gupta, an economist at the Asian Development Research Institute.

One of India's poorest and least developed states, Bihar has long been dominated by identity politics, with communities delivering their votes en masse to parties favored by leaders of their caste group. Since elections were never fought on the issues, the state's leaders felt no pressure to deliver.
Indian pol tries win vote on his record, not caste - Forbes.com

 

[Merilion]

The schematic that you have presented, grandgrandpa (sic)-->grandma-->papa-->widow of papa (beacuse the grandgrandson (sic) was too young at the time?)-->... is unfortunately neither accurate nor complete. If this is your impression, it is not surprising that the system seems beyond understanding.

To bring the true picture will take some considerable length, and it may bore you and others, therefore it is not being presented here. The best that can be done under the circumstances is to suggest that recent Indian political history, at the centre as well as at the states, may be revisited; it is possible that the missing information will become apparent, and the aspects that surprise you may become easier to understand.

Without any doubt, if you encounter any difficulties in your search, people on this forum will be glad to help.

i have to admit i'm not good at india history nor its political system. i will be more than happy to listen if someone can enlighten me on something i don't quite understand. for example, based on what merit that brought Sonia to chair congress overnight after the assassination of her husband PM Rajiv?(well i'm not even sure if Sonia took over the power immedicately or wait some kind of graceful period?)

 

[Abhishek_]

Joe, don't take my post too seriously, its just a response to the few posters above mine, no doubt, i agreed i may be a little out-dated regarding do most Indians vote according to caste line. But i did not claim that for no reason though, here is an article you might want to take a look at.

Kumar's fate in the election in Bihar, a six-stage vote that began last month and ends Saturday, will test whether delivering development can also deliver votes in a region long dominated by caste-based politics. The outcome is being closely watched across India, a rising regional power that is plagued by corruption, poverty, a lack of infrastructure and raft of other development problems.

"If he loses, it will show that good governance is thankless," said Shaibal Gupta, an economist at the Asian Development Research Institute.

One of India's poorest and least developed states, Bihar has long been dominated by identity politics, with communities delivering their votes en masse to parties favored by leaders of their caste group. Since elections were never fought on the issues, the state's leaders felt no pressure to deliver.
Indian pol tries win vote on his record, not caste - Forbes.com

The incumbent who worked so hard for the development of this state has won by a landslide, wiping out the opposition. Caste was made history in law, now it is going out the door from common homes as well.

 

[ajtr]

i have to admit i'm not good at india history nor its political system. i will be more than happy to listen if someone can enlighten me on something i don't quite understand. for example, based on what merit that brought Sonia to chair congress overnight after the assassination of her husband PM Rajiv?(well i'm not even sure if Sonia took over the power immedicately or wait some kind of graceful period?)

sonia became congress president after 6-7 years of her husband's death.India had 3 different prime ministers in that period.

PV narasimha rao(congress)
dev gowda(UDF)
IK gujral (JDU)

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe, don't take my post too seriously, its just a response to the few posters above mine, no doubt, i agreed i may be a little out-dated regarding do most Indians vote according to caste line. But i did not claim that for no reason though, here is an article you might want to take a look at.

Kumar's fate in the election in Bihar, a six-stage vote that began last month and ends Saturday, will test whether delivering development can also deliver votes in a region long dominated by caste-based politics. The outcome is being closely watched across India, a rising regional power that is plagued by corruption, poverty, a lack of infrastructure and raft of other development problems.

"If he loses, it will show that good governance is thankless," said Shaibal Gupta, an economist at the Asian Development Research Institute.

One of India's poorest and least developed states, Bihar has long been dominated by identity politics, with communities delivering their votes en masse to parties favored by leaders of their caste group. Since elections were never fought on the issues, the state's leaders felt no pressure to deliver.
Indian pol tries win vote on his record, not caste - Forbes.com

Oh hell. Once you put things that way, there is nothing to be done but retire as gracefully as possible, dragging my feet every step of the way and looking back at your two sets bashing away at each other with considerable regret.

Do not forget, however, that invoking me in future will cost you. Currently, the price is a roast ox, five roasted sheep and a barrelful of mead. As the promoters of this web-site are unlikely to approve of the mead, it can be transferred to my account by way of Hong Kong or of Singapore.

Please be good enough to allow time in such a case, so that all pending jobs at hand, cutting ogres to size and so on, can be gracefully concluded.

By the way, the article that you quoted was about Bihar precisely, the state that I cited. The results are out, and the man who fought for development, against caste considerations, has won a swingeing victory - nearly 8 or 9 seats out of every 10.

QED.

 

[desioptimist]

No matter how I hate congress for bringing dynastic politics, I cannot disagree, that it is supported by large number of voter. You can disagree with their choice and the reason, but cannot deny that they(voters) are the one who chose the successor.

It is noteworthy that congress pushed for Sonia to join, as it could not find an alternative, and was wary of the erosion of its support base. A considerable number of people support congress because of Gandhi family.

It is not only about Gandhi family, there are many leaders in other parties who have brought their family members to politics. It is easier for somebody to take politics as career choice if their family member is already in politics( the same for bollywood and other business families)