What Does Islam Say about Terrorism?

[Proud to be Pakistani]

You are so wrong again about the Arabs thinking of Islam.........

Shows how much little knowledge you have of Islam!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I may know little of Islam, but I do know that you have sold yourself to the Arabs.

You said that the Arabs are the only one who could translate the scriptures or words to that effect. RR corrected you on that.

It was insulting to all non Arab Moslems as if they were brain derived and intellectually deficient.

If you are Proud to be a Pakistan, be proud of Pakistan without letting Pakistan down in the love of Arabs.

Or take a Saudi citizenship and become a Salafi. It will do you a world of good since they claim they alone are the true Moslems and others are imposters!

 

[mujahideen]

I may know little of Islam, but I do know that you have sold yourself to the Arabs.

You said that the Arabs are the only one who could translate the scriptures or words to that effect. RR corrected you on that.

It was insulting to all non Arab Moslems as if they were brain derived and intellectually deficient.

If you are Proud to be a Pakistan, be proud of Pakistan without letting Pakistan down in the love of Arabs.

Or take a Saudi citizenship and become a Salafi. It will do you a world of good since they claim they alone are the true Moslems and others are imposters!

Look we have not sold our selves to Saudia Arabia. Saudia Arabia is like our older brother, we in Pakistan consider all Muslim countries to be our brothers and we are proud. Maybe you aren't aware of the influence Saudia Arabia has on Muslim countries, when they talk the whole Muslim world listens. Now this is not a slave and master relationship it is brotherly love, Saudia Arabia like I said is like our older brother and it is the only country in the world where all Muslims come and unite. Now you also said that Saudi's consider everyone else imposters, you are definitely mistaken. If they did Islam would not have spread like it did, if they considered us imposters we would would have 1.7 billion Muslims. Saudia Arabia has always come to our assistance when we have needed it, like the earthquake in Kashmire they were the biggest donors. Pakistan has found true friends in countries of the Middle East and I cant forget my Chinese brothers. Now tell me who is a true friend of your country, now dont say Russiabecause they are upset with you guys, that is why they have sold us the engines to the JF-17 Thunder.

 

[ejaz007]

What I meant to say was that a lot if not all what is happening is not Jihad infact by no means even close to jihad. Jihad has certain prerequisites and has certain rules that need to be followed under all circumstances. There is no need to discuss these as it will be waste of time and most of us hopefully do know.
Coming to topic I think most of you people shall agree with me that most of the terrorist organizations operating in muslin world have had close links with CIA. These people were funded and trained by CIA. When they served US purposes were let loose. Then after cold war ended US needed a new front and it turned out to be terrorism. Then these same groups were rehired to create panic and favorable conditions for US objectives to be achieved.
Take for example Pakistan. Who were Taliban. They were a force trained in Pakistan and supported to form a government. US did not recognize them. But according to well established facts they were negotiating with them for possible oil/gas pipelines through Afghanistan to Pakistan. They even paid them to help Unocal complete the project. If they were terrorists than why was US in contact with them and providing money to them.
Then take Al-qaeda. Every one knows that they were funded and supported by CIA during Afghan war. After that they are the ones who allegedly carried out 9/11 and thanks to them US war on terror started. It created more terror then ended.
Then there is Balochistan Libration Army. During 1970’s it was funded and created by CIA by the name of Balochistan Army. Then when BA failed to achieve the objective it was disbanded. Now when CIA wanted to destabilize Pakistan the organization was recreated.
So my friends there is no jihad going on. As I had tried to explain in my last post it is just that the western media and some anti Islamic lobbies portray every action by these groups in the pretext of jihad partly to scare their citizens and keep them in line with the policies followed by their governments and partly to create environment conducive for their main business the defense industry. After 9/11 all US and western defense firms have registered tremendous growth. All major weapons purchases have been by developing countries and especially Muslim world.
When real jihad shall begin every one shall see it and know what those warriors shall not loose.

 

[mujahideen]

What I meant to say was that a lot if not all what is happening is not Jihad infact by no means even close to jihad. Jihad has certain prerequisites and has certain rules that need to be followed under all circumstances. There is no need to discuss these as it will be waste of time and most of us hopefully do know.
Coming to topic I think most of you people shall agree with me that most of the terrorist organizations operating in muslin world have had close links with CIA. These people were funded and trained by CIA. When they served US purposes were let loose. Then after cold war ended US needed a new front and it turned out to be terrorism. Then these same groups were rehired to create panic and favorable conditions for US objectives to be achieved.
Take for example Pakistan. Who were Taliban. They were a force trained in Pakistan and supported to form a government. US did not recognize them. But according to well established facts they were negotiating with them for possible oil/gas pipelines through Afghanistan to Pakistan. They even paid them to help Unocal complete the project. If they were terrorists than why was US in contact with them and providing money to them.
Then take Al-qaeda. Every one knows that they were funded and supported by CIA during Afghan war. After that they are the ones who allegedly carried out 9/11 and thanks to them US war on terror started. It created more terror then ended.
Then there is Balochistan Libration Army. During 1970’s it was funded and created by CIA by the name of Balochistan Army. Then when BA failed to achieve the objective it was disbanded. Now when CIA wanted to destabilize Pakistan the organization was recreated.
So my friends there is no jihad going on. As I had tried to explain in my last post it is just that the western media and some anti Islamic lobbies portray every action by these groups in the pretext of jihad partly to scare their citizens and keep them in line with the policies followed by their governments and partly to create environment conducive for their main business the defense industry. After 9/11 all US and western defense firms have registered tremendous growth. All major weapons purchases have been by developing countries and especially Muslim world.
When real jihad shall begin every one shall see it and know what those warriors shall not loose.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Now tell me who is a true friend of your country, now dont say Russiabecause they are upset with you guys, that is why they have sold us the engines to the JF-17 Thunder.

There are no friends or enemies. There are only permanent interests.

It is good that you feel China is a true friend. However, to remember there is national interest that prompts China to befriend Pakistan.

China's soft underbelly is Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang (Sinkiang).

The US has interest in Taiwan, while India adjoins Tibet and Xinjiang. There is a dispute with India on territory. Hence, India has to be neutralised. Pakistan, thus becomes an ally, which is but a natural corollary. It is also in the interest of China to befriend Pakistan since the terrorists and fundamentalists are very active along Pakistan's border. If these terrorists influence the Uighur Moslems, who China calls "splittists", and activates them in the Islamic fervour, there will be serious problems for China. Therefore, befriending Pakistan and helping her in ways that are essential for Pakistan and making Pakistan grateful for the help, China would be able to influence Pakistan to ensure that these terrorist on the Afghan Pakistan border regions do not spill over to Xinjiang.

Therefore, China is only furthering her national interest as any country would and likewise Pakistan is furthering her own interest.

It is to be noted that while China is helping Pakistan in defence and other fields and is to many Pakistanis, and rightfully so, Pakistan's best friend, China has never come to the aid of Pakistan in her wars with India. Nothing wrong actually. It is but China permanent interest that dictated her not militarily engaging India in Indo Pak Wars. China was not ready to fight an expensive war in support of Pakistan, since her national goal was to be a challenge the US in the world arena and squandering money for a war that was not in her interest would bring her notches down in the challenge to the US.

Thus, permanent interest is what governs a nation. Friendship etc is but an emotional sop for very calculated political and strategic needs.

Who is India's friend?

I would say none.

But does India have permanent interest?

Yes.

That is why the US, a former antagonist, is her new "friend" and not Russia.

But is the US India's friend? Or India US' friend? I don't think so. They will identify with each other so long as they have common interests.

That is how the world moves on!

 

[mujahideen]

There are no friends or enemies. There are only permanent interests.

It is good that you feel China is a true friend. However, to remember there is national interest that prompts China to befriend Pakistan.

China's soft underbelly is Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang (Sinkiang).

The US has interest in Taiwan, while India adjoins Tibet and Xinjiang. There is a dispute with India on territory. Hence, India has to be neutralised. Pakistan, thus becomes an ally, which is but a natural corollary. It is also in the interest of China to befriend Pakistan since the terrorists and fundamentalists are very active along Pakistan's border. If these terrorists influence the Uighur Moslems, who China calls "splittists", and activates them in the Islamic fervour, there will be serious problems for China. Therefore, befriending Pakistan and helping her in ways that are essential for Pakistan and making Pakistan grateful for the help, China would be able to influence Pakistan to ensure that these terrorist on the Afghan Pakistan border regions do not spill over to Xinjiang.

Therefore, China is only furthering her national interest as any country would and likewise Pakistan is furthering her own interest.

It is to be noted that while China is helping Pakistan in defence and other fields and is to many Pakistanis, and rightfully so, Pakistan's best friend, China has never come to the aid of Pakistan in her wars with India. Nothing wrong actually. It is but China permanent interest that dictated her not militarily engaging India in Indo Pak Wars. China was not ready to fight an expensive war in support of Pakistan, since her national goal was to be a challenge the US in the world arena and squandering money for a war that was not in her interest would bring her notches down in the challenge to the US.

Thus, permanent interest is what governs a nation. Friendship etc is but an emotional sop for very calculated political and strategic needs.

Who is India's friend?

I would say none.

But does India have permanent interest?

Yes.

That is why the US, a former antagonist, is her new "friend" and not Russia.

But is the US India's friend? Or India US' friend? I don't think so. They will identify with each other so long as they have common interests.

That is how the world moves on!

What you have said here I agree. What you have said is right all nations whether it be Pakistan, China, India or whatever country have no friends but they have interest. Well I really didn't want to put China's name in my previous post, but it just came out when I mentioned Pakistan allies or friends or whatever you may call it. Now we were talking about the Muslims countries. What you have state I already said I agree with but the point I was making is that the relationship Muslim countries have in particular Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have is not an ordinary relationship. We are bound to each other by a common faith, religion, ideology, culture and many other social aspects. Noe when you said countries have interest in other countries, this statement of your can also be applied to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has the money and Pakistan in my opinion is like the armor of the Muslim world and in particular we have said that any attack on Saudi Arabia is a declaration of war on Pakistan. One factor which I just stated for our friendship is religion. Religion is the main aspect of our relationship and let me tell you that any attack on Saudi Arabia, will prompt all Muslims in the world to run to Saudi Arabia and protect the country. The reason is because Islam's two most holy places lie their along with years of Muslim history. Believe me our relationship is based on religion and not because Muslims like the Saudi people. Believe me their is no slave and master relationship here, we are bound by many things and not just Saudi Arabia and Pakistan but all Muslim countries.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

I may know little of Islam, but I do know that you have sold yourself to the Arabs.

You said that the Arabs are the only one who could translate the scriptures or words to that effect. RR corrected you on that.

It was insulting to all non Arab Moslems as if they were brain derived and intellectually deficient.

If you are Proud to be a Pakistan, be proud of Pakistan without letting Pakistan down in the love of Arabs.

Or take a Saudi citizenship and become a Salafi. It will do you a world of good since they claim they alone are the true Moslems and others are imposters!

They donot claim that they are the Muslims and the rest is all BS.

Its people like you who create the hatered among Muslims so that they can never unite to become a Islamic Nation. Its the way the world has divided the Muslims and i think people on the Forum are also getting manupilated or blinded by your untrue and unjust comments about Arabs.

I mentioned in another thread that the reason is the love and affiliation we hold with the Arab and the love they hold for us. Its entirely different then your thinking and your description of the Arab Behaviour.

Your emotional comments to make hatered between Arabs and Pakistani are not going to Work.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Look we have not sold our selves to Saudia Arabia. Saudia Arabia is like our older brother, we in Pakistan consider all Muslim countries to be our brothers and we are proud. Maybe you aren't aware of the influence Saudia Arabia has on Muslim countries, when they talk the whole Muslim world listens. Now this is not a slave and master relationship it is brotherly love, Saudia Arabia like I said is like our older brother and it is the only country in the world where all Muslims come and unite. Now you also said that Saudi's consider everyone else imposters, you are definitely mistaken. If they did Islam would not have spread like it did, if they considered us imposters we would would have 1.7 billion Muslims. Saudia Arabia has always come to our assistance when we have needed it, like the earthquake in Kashmire they were the biggest donors. Pakistan has found true friends in countries of the Middle East and I cant forget my Chinese brothers. Now tell me who is a true friend of your country, now dont say Russiabecause they are upset with you guys, that is why they have sold us the engines to the JF-17 Thunder.

You are a Moslem and a Pakistani and so you must be right since you know more on the issue.

Indeed, Saudi Arabia has helped Pakistan in need. Even when the US sanctions were on, Saudi Arabia gave oil and there was a controversy of it being without payment etc. It was later clarified as deferred payment.

Notwithstanding, the internet is full of commentaries and for those who want to know more, it becomes confusing and at times contradictory.

What is the correct position?

Have a look at these links:

Al-Albani Unveiled: The Salafi/Wahhabi sect

Salafism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Though from Wikipedia, it has reference to other scholarly inputs.

73 Divisions in Islam and One True Jama'at

Is Salafi Aqida the Same as Sunni Aqida?

Those apart, here is a commentary that is most interesting:

Difference between Sunni belief and Salafi belief

Regarding the difference between the belief of the Sunnis (Ahl al-Sunna wa’l-Jama‘ah) and the belief of the Salafis ([h: the Salafis] are a group of Muslims who claim ascription to the righteous early Muslims (al-salaf al-salih) in terms of their belief, although in reality, they go against the righteous early Muslims in some of what they claim to agree with them on, as I shall partly explain in what follows), the Salafis go against the Sunnis in some of what I have explained above, such as belief that Allah has a wajh (lit. “face”), ‘ayn (lit. “eye”), yad (lit. “hand”), and qadam (lit. “foot”) in the literal sense of these words. [h: They also go against the Sunnis by believing] that He Most High’s entity is literally above the heaven, adducing as proof certain verses and hadiths, although they are mistaken in their understanding.

Rather, the position of the righteous early Muslims from among the Companions, Followers, and followed Imams is that Allah is transcendently beyond the literal meaning of the above-mentioned things because of the baseless anthropomorphism that they comprise, and because—as explained above—the verses and hadiths that have mentioned these matters are interpreted according to meanings that befit His Most High’s entity.

Some of the scholars of the early Muslims (Allah be pleased with them) explicitly stated these meanings whereas others remained silent and sufficed themselves with believing that Allah is transcendently beyond such false meanings, and both approaches are acceptable.[5]

As for a person’s believing that Allah is literally characterized by the above-mentioned matters, this is a completely false position and it goes against the position of the vast majority of the Imams of the Muslims in every time and place. Among the useful books about this subject are Daf‘u Shubah al-Tashbih bi-Akuff al-Tanzih, by the Hanbali Imam and hadith master, Ibn al-Jawzi, and Idah al-Dalil fi Qat‘i Hujaj Ahl al-Ta‘til, by the great Shafi‘i Imam, Badr al-Din b. Jama‘ah. Both books have been published. [6]

Amjad Rasheed
Amman, Jordan
(Translated by Hamza Karamali)

Hosted by Sunni Path (Study Islam at SunniPath - the Online Islamic Academy)

Translator’s Notes:

[1] This has been translated in Book V of the Reliance of the Traveller and also at the back of the booklet, Becoming Muslim, both by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. There is also a brief synopsis of Sunni creed in The Key to the Garden, by Habib Mashhur al-Haddad (translated by Dr. Mostafa al-Badawi).

[2] This has not been translated into English, unfortunately.

[3] For a detailed explanation of why it is not permissible for Muslims to believe that Allah is literally in the sky, see Is it permissible for a Muslim to believe that Allah is in the sky in a literal sense?, by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. The article is available at Mas'ud Ahmed Khan's Home Page.

[4] Anthropomorphism (tashbeeh) means likening Allah to His creation.

[5] For an excellent and thoroughly documented account of the position of the early Muslims on the attributes of Allah, see Literalism and the Attributes of Allah, by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. The article is available atwww.masud.co.uk

[6] Neither book has been translated, unfortunately.

The Beliefs of the Sunni Way

In fact, I believe that the Salafis are strict in their interpretation wherein they don't allow inscriptions of graves, nor allow such rituals like Shab e Barat. The Shab e Barat is celebrated in India and I believe also in Pakistan.

Therefore, I take it that Sunni Islam as is followed in Pakistan and India is at variance with the Salafi mode of Islam, which is the sect followed in Saudi Arabia. Therefore, if Saudis are the elder brother, they would insist that their mode of Sunni Islam ie Salafi/ Wahhabi, is the right way and so when they fund the madrassaa, they would expect Salafi Sunni is followed.

Therefore, isn't there a contradiction?

I am aware that on this forum there was an excellent commentary on Islam and also Wahhabism, Salafism by Rehman, the Moderator, on the subject, but I am unable to find it.

I wonder if the Shias consider Saudi Arabia as elder brothers.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

They donot claim that they are the Muslims and the rest is all BS.

Its people like you who create the hatered among Muslims so that they can never unite to become a Islamic Nation. Its the way the world has divided the Muslims and i think people on the Forum are also getting manupilated or blinded by your untrue and unjust comments about Arabs.

I mentioned in another thread that the reason is the love and affiliation we hold with the Arab and the love they hold for us. Its entirely different then your thinking and your description of the Arab Behaviour.

Your emotional comments to make hatered between Arabs and Pakistani are not going to Work.

You would see the dark side of Paradise also.

That is your psyche.

I am sure you would prefer that I went ballistic and stupid, but then I am sorry I shall not feed your pipedream.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

What you have said here I agree. What you have said is right all nations whether it be Pakistan, China, India or whatever country have no friends but they have interest. Well I really didn't want to put China's name in my previous post, but it just came out when I mentioned Pakistan allies or friends or whatever you may call it. Now we were talking about the Muslims countries. What you have state I already said I agree with but the point I was making is that the relationship Muslim countries have in particular Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have is not an ordinary relationship. We are bound to each other by a common faith, religion, ideology, culture and many ot+++her social aspects. Noe when you said countries have interest in other countries, this statement of your can also be applied to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has the money and Pakistan in my opinion is like the armor of the Muslim world and in particular we have said that any attack on Saudi Arabia is a declaration of war on Pakistan. One factor which I just stated for our friendship is religion. Religion is the main aspect of our relationship and let me tell you that any attack on Saudi Arabia, will prompt all Muslims in the world to run to Saudi Arabia and protect the country. The reason is because Islam's two most holy places lie their along with years of Muslim history. Believe me our relationship is based on religion and not because Muslims like the Saudi people. Believe me their is no slave and master relationship here, we are bound by many things and not just Saudi Arabia and Pakistan but all Muslim countries.

Thanks for the clarification.

The emotional bond between Islamic nations (Sunni) and Saudis, the guardian of the holy cities, is understandable and natural.

I don't think that anyone would even think of attacking the holy sites, no matter what is posted on the internet by some who have no idea of reality.

But what interests me, now that it has been discussed, is how is Salafism reconciled with mainstream Sunni Islam and the religious equation between Saudi government with other Sunni govts of the world.

 

[EagleEyes]

Why there is no fatwa against the terrorists, while there are lots of fatwas on unnecessary and unrelated issues?

Why there is no call from religious leaders during after prayer sermon for not to support terrorists?

Why there is a no strong voice against terrorists? Why there is no protest against terror incidents, when there are vilolent protests for silly reasons?

Thats because you dont live in Pakistan.

 

[Goodperson]

Thats because you dont live in Pakistan.

Perhaps due to Pakistan bordering Afganisthan, I still wonder how Iran even after having border Afganisthan could remain aloof from such charges?

But if what you say is true then definitely someone needs to change the world the opinion.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Karma and GP:

Clerics worried by lack of respect for fatwas on suicide​

* JUI-F meeting frustrated at failure to prevent Charsadda attack
By Zakir Hassnain: Daily Times, May 7, 2007

PESHAWAR: Clerics who issued a fatwa a few weeks ago declaring suicide attacks ‘haraam’ and illegal, are concerned at the fact that even fatwas have failed to stop such attacks by jihadi elements.

These religious scholars are of the view that the existing volatile situation has gotten out of control and has reached a point where even religious decrees cannot prevent such elements from their actions.

The Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI-F) NWFP organised a clerics convention on April 17 to protect religious madrassas and tell its activists that problems could be resolved only through peaceful means and not through military ones.

The convention also issued a fatwa that said suicide bombing was haraam in Islam and against the law of the land. Over 2,000 clerics from various parts of the country endorsed it and some of it’s signatories were Maulana Fazlur Rehman, Maulana Saleemullah Khan, Maulana Muhammad Hanif Jalandhri, Maulana Muhammad Hassan Jan, Maulana Dr Abdul Razaaq Sikandar, Maulana Qazi Hameedullah, Maulana Dr Muhammad Adil Khan, Maulana Dr Sher Ali Khan, Maulana Mufti Ghulamur Rehman and Maulana Muhammad Ullah Jan.

However, the Charsadda suicide bomb attack seems to indicate that the clerics’ decree carried no weight and was ignored. “These are cruel and ignorant people.

They have no knowledge and education and don’t even listen to religious scholars,” Sheikhul Hadith Maulana Hassan Jan, one of the fatwa signatories and head of Jamia Imdadul Uloom Al Islamia Darwaish Masjid Peshawar, told Daily Times.

Jan condemned the Charsadda attack and said suicide bombing was haraam and against the Sharia. “We still stand by our fatwa,” he said, adding that stopping illiterate elements from suicide attacks was beyond the control of clerics. “We cannot force them [jihadi elements] to act upon our fatwas,” said the maulana and added the situation in Afghanistan and Iraq was different from our country. “We are completely against suicide activities in our country,” he said.

Qari Fayyazur Rehman Alvi, JUI-F National Assembly member and the party’s central deputy general secretary, said sometimes matters went beyond fatwas and they just did not work anymore. He said it was now pointless to issue more decrees as the entire system had collapsed. “Fatwas don’t work in troubled regions. The situation has progressed beyond them,” he added.

The JUI-F’s religious scholar said the clerics’ convention had served to denounce to everyone, including madrassas, that suicide bombing was against the Sharia and law. “We are satisfied with our madrassas. They will not reject our fatwas,” he said.

Alvi said numerous jihadi organisations and people were terrorising the country and some of them had the support of the agencies. “The agencies are playing a dangerous game in the country,” he said.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

They are about 5 years behind condemning the suicide bombings. Remember how the we condoned the suicide bombings in iraq---even mature friends very educated pakistanis were saying what a great job----and I was telling them about innocent children men and women being killed---and quite a few of my colleagues were senseless to the issue---suicide attacks were great---they were hurting the u s army----. Todays news---on an average 120 iraqis killed every day for roughly 4 years---others say the number is close to 1 million.

Here on this board some members are still saying how the u s has been defeated in iraq ie---by ied's and suicide bombings---over a million iraqis killed by suicide attacks and other devices of death. Now this monster has found a new home---pakistan---it feeds on the hatred of man----and we have hate for each other in abundance---it thrives upon religious difference---we have them in en masse---it cherishes chaos---we own that too---it nourishes on the indifference of the public ( it has not happened to us yet syndrome )---we can claim that one too---it enjoys the support of the anti govt politicians----we have them at dime a dozen.